Dyslexia

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Regular poster here....

I have a friend, lets call him 'bob' who recently has begun training for his private pilot license. Bob has a couple of issues.

He does not have the ability to laugh at himself and gets ****ed off if he does something stupid or makes a mistake. He basically throws adult temper tantrums.

He is recognized by all of our mutual friends as a terrible driver. Distracted, bad judgement. Riding with him is a white knuckle experience. Not only is he a bad driver of cars, but he is an even worse boater. His family has owned boats since he was young so it is not lack of experience.

At dinner the other night, the topic of bob flying was brought up by a few of our mutual friends, all of whom have been flying with me at some point. They expressed concern and a bit of "no way in hell i'd ever fly with him" and were asking me if he would be safe. I got to talking about disqualifying medical conditions and we came to the conclusion that he is dyslexic. In fact a friend who was participating in the discussion is diagnosed with dyslexia, and thinks Bob is dyslexic as well.

He mistakes words and things you would not normally do. For example, he thought Groupon was 'group coupon'

We don't know if Bob is diagnosed or not, or if Dyslexia is disqualifying. Broaching the subject with him would probably **** him off. Just curious if any of you have a friend with a similar personality that wanted to fly, but you thought might not be fit to act as PIC.
 
Lots. That's why I don't do primary flight training any more. By the time they get to more advanced training, the weeds have been culled.
 
Not flying but I work with a guy like that. He's a very good engineer, and can do some great network design, but get him in a mechanical device of any kind and it's Katy bar the door. I've ridden with him once, and refused to go out on his boat when asked. He's had several at fault accidents and just has no concept of relational or spacial dynamics. I know he's been diagnosed with dyslexia but he kind of ignores it, and no one gives him any trouble because he's really a good employee, but no one will ride with him.

From a flying perspective, I have never trained anyone to fly, but I'm certainly hoping that the standards for competent handling of a plane are not reduced or ignored. Maybe after x hundred hours of instruction he'll finally be told that there is no way he can manage the dynamics of an aircraft.
 
I can remember one guy that was particularly poorly suited for flying. He lacked the decision making as well as the social skills to learn. Lucky for us things worked out for the better when he drove his car into the side of our FBO and darn near ended up in the hanger. He never came back.
 
MYOFB. Diagnosing a friend unfit, really? The system will take care of him. If licensing can't stop unfit pilots why would we ever put up with having to get pilot licenses?
 
I don't know what MYOFB means.

No one is diagnosing anyone but the consensus is that our pal has some sort of disability, impediment or personality disorder. He is awful behind the wheel of a car or boat and we are concerned he will be just as bad at flying a plane.

I'm certainly going to help him with any questions he has and I have taken him flying before. Still, I am a bit concerned for his safety.
 
Bob's instructor will have to be the one to decide based on what Bob actually does in the plane. And I'm sure every instructor has had at least one primary trainee to whom they have had to decline to give solo privileges, no less a certificate endorsement, because the trainee just wasn't able to keep it between all the various skill, judgemental, behavioral, and legal lines.
 
Ron Levy said:
Bob's instructor will have to be the one to decide based on what Bob actually does in the plane. And I'm sure every instructor has had at least one primary trainee to whom they have had to decline to give solo privileges, no less a certificate endorsement, because the trainee just wasn't able to keep it between all the various skill, judgemental, behavioral, and legal lines.
Click to expand...

This. Leave it to an instructor to figure out.
 
Not to be contrary, but are you really a friend of Bob's or just a drinking buddy. If you were a friend and concerned about his plans for flying and fearful it is not the thing for him, have you actually tried to talk him about it. I would not be surprised if his is aware of these issues and may be using flying as a way to see if he can "cure" himself of them. Waiting for him to kill himself, someone else, or waiting for his CFI to stop training him(if his CFI even does this) is not what a true friend would do.

As for him having dyslexia, my guess is he actually has something covered by the category of auditory perceptual deficits which is sort of but not exactly a dyslexia(which refers to words written on paper) of hearing. I am not sure of whether or not it would disqualify him from flying, or whether it is recognized by the FAA, but it could possibly cause problems with radio skills.

Do him a favor and talk to him. If he is really a friend and he considers you a friend he will take your concerns as what they really are, if the relationship is different at least take console in the fact that cared enought to say something to him.

Doug
 
BTW, some folks who aren't safe on the highway may get it together just fine in an airplane. My father, of blessed memory, always said he'd much rather fly with me that drive with me. Who knows -- maybe flying will bring out the best in Bob rather than the worst.
 
Real friends dont drag each other down based on suspicions of ability, well maybe women do. But not men, let him fly even if it kills him.
douglas393 said:
Not to be contrary, but are you really a friend of Bob's or just a drinking buddy. If you were a friend and concerned about his plans for flying and fearful it is not the thing for him, have you actually tried to talk him about it. I would not be surprised if his is aware of these issues and may be using flying as a way to see if he can "cure" himself of them. Waiting for him to kill himself, someone else, or waiting for his CFI to stop training him(if his CFI even does this) is not what a true friend would do.

As for him having dyslexia, my guess is he actually has something covered by the category of auditory perceptual deficits which is sort of but not exactly a dyslexia(which refers to words written on paper) of hearing. I am not sure of whether or not it would disqualify him from flying, or whether it is recognized by the FAA, but it could possibly cause problems with radio skills.

Do him a favor and talk to him. If he is really a friend and he considers you a friend he will take your concerns as what they really are, if the relationship is different at least take console in the fact that cared enought to say something to him.

Doug
Click to expand...
 
douglas393 said:
Not to be contrary, but are you really a friend of Bob's or just a drinking buddy. If you were a friend and concerned about his plans for flying and fearful it is not the thing for him, have you actually tried to talk him about it.

As for him having dyslexia, my guess is he actually has something covered by the category of auditory perceptual deficits which is sort of but not exactly a dyslexia
Click to expand...

As of this moment i'm not too worried as he is only 2 hours into training. Just thought i'd bring it up for discussion.

I'm not planning on trying to talk him out of flying or anything. Its not my responsibility and as others have mentioned its his CFI's job to judge his competency.
 
This is a subject that I am familiar and feel strongly about.

I think there may be some misunderstanding on exactly what dyslexia is.
Dyslexia is primarily a reading and Phonics processing disorder. The behavior you describe does not sound to my unprofessional opinion as dyslexic. Perhaps one of the dd's like ADD or ADDHD. I am not by any means an expert in these fields however I am fairly well informed and have lived Dyslexia.

Here are a few statistics for dyslexia. Cut and past from http://www.dyslexiahealth.com/dyslexia-statistics/
Dyslexia Statistic – What You May Not Know

Some of the following dyslexia statistics are surprising when you think about the fact that these are only the reported cases of dyslexia. There are probably a lot more that are not reported or diagnosed. Here are a few things you may not know about dyslexia.

Dyslexia is the most common cause of reading, spelling, and writing difficulty
70-80% of all people with poor reading skills are likely to be dyslexic
1 in 5 students or approximately 15-20% of the population have a language based learning disability and dyslexia is the most common of these disabilities.
Dyslexia is non-discriminating- It affects nearly the same number of males as females. It affects the same amount of people within ethnic or socioeconomic backgrounds.
75% of the students that show difficulty with basic reading skills early in school can be helped to overcome these difficulties. While not all of these students are Dyslexic, many are.
Less than 1/3 of all children in school with reading disabilities are receiving specialized instruction to help.

Rather than my cutting and pasting pages of info. Here is some excellent links about Dyslexia.

Intresting artical on Dyslexic Aviators
http://inthemindseyedyslexicrenaissance.blogspot.com/2010/04/dyslexic-aviators.html

Here is a explanation from
http://www.learning-inside-out.com/what-is-dyslexia.html

by Sally E. Shaywitz, M.D.Yale University
http://dyslexia.yale.edu/EDU_DysArticleintro.html

This site is a HBO movie that recently aired with some good incite.
http://thebigpicturemovie.com/

Try goggling famous Dyslexics:
Tom Cruise, Henry Winkler, Jay Leno, Steven Spielberg, Albert Einstein and a many more.

My story
I have a 7yo daughter who is dyslexic. Her first grade teacher came to us and informed something was wrong. She could breeze through 2nd grade and attempt 3gd grade level math. Yet only read 7 words per minuet. A 1st grader should read around 60 WPM. This was last January. We went through months of extensive testing and she was diagnosed gifted Dyslexic. He has a 132 IQ but struggles with language based learning. I was totally devastated by the news as most any parents would be. My wife and I have immersed ourselves in learning about this learning disorder attending every conference we could get to. I quickly figured out that almost certainly I am also dyslexic and never knew. I excelled in some areas of school and could not function in others. Flight training for me went well thanks to an outstanding CFI. however studying for the written was a struggle and required allot of ground work with the instructor. I am a fallow the directions type of person. If I was told to cross the fence at 80kts with 1 notch of flaps that is EXACTLY what I expected of myself. I was mad at myself if I had nailed the approach but at 78 or 82kts. I wanted everything as I was taught every time. I never was questioned on a poor judgement call. Very cautious in the plane, boat, car, ect.
Today I cant afford to fly but miss it tremendously. I read allot and hardly watch TV. However, I either cant spell or typo so bad spell check just laughs at me. On this forum I quickly got slammed by a few for my errors and decided I would not post again here. I read the posts here regularly but mostly DO NOT POST. I'm sticking my neck out now hoping not to get slammed again.
( Sorry I got got way off track)

My Emily started a school specifically for children with Dyslexia last august using the Orton-Gillingham program and her reading/spelling has improved dramatically. She probably will back in mainstream school in a few years. She and her brother had there first GA flight recently and both aspire to fly. My 12yo plans on soloing and taking his drivers permit in his 16th B-Day if I can afford his flight training.

This took me a couple of hours to write and find all the links. Then another hour to recheck my errors. My writing this is way out of character for me. I don't usually like my business on the street however I do take helping struggling children very personal.
I truly hope someone reads this and identifies a bright child they know that is struggling to keep up. PLEASE have them take this test online and see a qualified professional if indicated. http://www.testdyslexia.com/

My apologies for the rant on this site. This struck a nerve. :mad2:
Fox
 
ClimbnSink said:
Real friends dont drag each other down based on suspicions of ability, well maybe women do. But not men, let him fly even if it kills him.
Click to expand...
Really??? I am not suggesting he drag him down, but if I was about to embark on something of which a friend of mine thought could be dangerous for me or ill advised I would want him to tell me his worries. That is what I would consider a real friend, and not a fair weather friend.
 
Foxhole said:
This is a subject that I am familiar and feel strongly about.

I think there may be some misunderstanding on exactly what dyslexia is.
Dyslexia is primarily a reading and Phonics processing disorder. The behavior you describe does not sound to my unprofessional opinion as dyslexic. Perhaps one of the dd's like ADD or ADDHD. I am not by any means an expert in these fields however I am fairly well informed and have lived Dyslexia.

Here are a few statistics for dyslexia. Cut and past from http://www.dyslexiahealth.com/dyslexia-statistics/
Dyslexia Statistic – What You May Not Know

Some of the following dyslexia statistics are surprising when you think about the fact that these are only the reported cases of dyslexia. There are probably a lot more that are not reported or diagnosed. Here are a few things you may not know about dyslexia.

Dyslexia is the most common cause of reading, spelling, and writing difficulty
70-80% of all people with poor reading skills are likely to be dyslexic
1 in 5 students or approximately 15-20% of the population have a language based learning disability and dyslexia is the most common of these disabilities.
Dyslexia is non-discriminating- It affects nearly the same number of males as females. It affects the same amount of people within ethnic or socioeconomic backgrounds.
75% of the students that show difficulty with basic reading skills early in school can be helped to overcome these difficulties. While not all of these students are Dyslexic, many are.
Less than 1/3 of all children in school with reading disabilities are receiving specialized instruction to help.

Rather than my cutting and pasting pages of info. Here is some excellent links about Dyslexia.

Intresting artical on Dyslexic Aviators
http://inthemindseyedyslexicrenaissance.blogspot.com/2010/04/dyslexic-aviators.html

Here is a explanation from
http://www.learning-inside-out.com/what-is-dyslexia.html

by Sally E. Shaywitz, M.D.Yale University
http://dyslexia.yale.edu/EDU_DysArticleintro.html

This site is a HBO movie that recently aired with some good incite.
http://thebigpicturemovie.com/

Try goggling famous Dyslexics:
Tom Cruise, Henry Winkler, Jay Leno, Steven Spielberg, Albert Einstein and a many more.

My story
I have a 7yo daughter who is dyslexic. Her first grade teacher came to us and informed something was wrong. She could breeze through 2nd grade and attempt 3gd grade level math. Yet only read 7 words per minuet. A 1st grader should read around 60 WPM. This was last January. We went through months of extensive testing and she was diagnosed gifted Dyslexic. He has a 132 IQ but struggles with language based learning. I was totally devastated by the news as most any parents would be. My wife and I have immersed ourselves in learning about this learning disorder attending every conference we could get to. I quickly figured out that almost certainly I am also dyslexic and never knew. I excelled in some areas of school and could not function in others. Flight training for me went well thanks to an outstanding CFI. however studying for the written was a struggle and required allot of ground work with the instructor. I am a fallow the directions type of person. If I was told to cross the fence at 80kts with 1 notch of flaps that is EXACTLY what I expected of myself. I was mad at myself if I had nailed the approach but at 78 or 82kts. I wanted everything as I was taught every time. I never was questioned on a poor judgement call. Very cautious in the plane, boat, car, ect.
Today I cant afford to fly but miss it tremendously. I read allot and hardly watch TV. However, I either cant spell or typo so bad spell check just laughs at me. On this forum I quickly got slammed by a few for my errors and decided I would not post again here. I read the posts here regularly but mostly DO NOT POST. I'm sticking my neck out now hoping not to get slammed again.
( Sorry I got got way off track)

My Emily started a school specifically for children with Dyslexia last august using the Orton-Gillingham program and her reading/spelling has improved dramatically. She probably will back in mainstream school in a few years. She and her brother had there first GA flight recently and both aspire to fly. My 12yo plans on soloing and taking his drivers permit in his 16th B-Day if I can afford his flight training.

This took me a couple of hours to write and find all the links. Then another hour to recheck my errors. My writing this is way out of character for me. I don't usually like my business on the street however I do take helping struggling children very personal.
I truly hope someone reads this and identifies a bright child they know that is struggling to keep up. PLEASE have them take this test online and see a qualified professional if indicated. http://www.testdyslexia.com/

My apologies for the rant on this site. This struck a nerve. :mad2:
Fox
Click to expand...
EXACTLY. I think he has a auditory perceptual deficit type issue. As for your fear of posting because of grammatical errors or the like, screw those who scared you away. Everyone has a point and I have learned as much from my wrong posts as from others correct posts. Your post here proves beyond a shadow of a doubt you have a lot to offer. And no apologies for your rant, it is definitely appropriate.
 
Foxhole said:
This is a subject that I am familiar and feel strongly about.

I think there may be some misunderstanding on exactly what dyslexia is.
Click to expand...
If dyslexia were the only concern, your points might be more relevant. However, Bob is described as having temper tantrums and being easily distracted while driving a car or boat, and exhibiting bad judgement in the operation of those vehicles. I see those as far more serious concerns for flying than possible dyslexia, and I think those are what really scare the experienced instructors who have responded.
 
Ron Levy said:
If dyslexia were the only concern, your points might be more relevant. However, Bob is described as having temper tantrums and being easily distracted while driving a car or boat, and exhibiting bad judgement in the operation of those vehicles. I see those as far more serious concerns for flying than possible dyslexia, and I think those are what really scare the experienced instructors who have responded.
Click to expand...
His points are relevant in terms of the title of the thread and how he ends his post. His points are also relevant in terms of the mischaracterization of dyslexia.
 
Foxhole said:
This is a subject that I am familiar and feel strongly about.

I think there may be some misunderstanding on exactly what dyslexia is.
Dyslexia is primarily a reading and Phonics processing disorder. The behavior you describe does not sound to my unprofessional opinion as dyslexic. Perhaps one of the dd's like ADD or ADDHD. I am not by any means an expert in these fields however I am fairly well informed and have lived Dyslexia.

Here are a few statistics for dyslexia. Cut and past from http://www.dyslexiahealth.com/dyslexia-statistics/
Dyslexia Statistic – What You May Not Know

My apologies for the rant on this site. This struck a nerve. :mad2:
Fox
Click to expand...

From your source:

Dyslexia takes many different forms and each case of dyslexia is slightly different from the next. The severity of the condition and the environment the dyslexic is raised in will determine the effects of the disorder.

Most dyslexics are of average or above average intelligence and just need to be taught in a different manner. In fact, many individuals that have dyslexia also show extraordinary skills in other areas to compensate for the difficulties in reading and spelling.

Bold is my part. The guy I mentioned in my post is a known factor. He's said it in passing, and does what he can to dismiss it. I think his ability as an engineer is great, but I still won't ride in a car with him.

No need to apologize, I appreciate your involvement.
 
Last edited:
Unregistered said:
I don't know what MYOFB means.

No one is diagnosing anyone but the consensus is that our pal has some sort of disability, impediment or personality disorder. He is awful behind the wheel of a car or boat and we are concerned he will be just as bad at flying a plane.

I'm certainly going to help him with any questions he has and I have taken him flying before. Still, I am a bit concerned for his safety.
Click to expand...
Mind Your Own EFIN Business. Though I think as I stated before as a friend talk to him about your concerns.
 
still OP here

Foxhole, glad you are getting your daughter the extra attention she needs.

Yes, bad at operating motor vehicles is probably what concerns me the most. That and some kind of personality issues.

I think my other friend (not bob) who is a diagnosed dyslexic would make a good pilot. He's a good driver of a car and a boat (I live in an area with a lot of boating) and I think if he learned a few workarounds he would have no trouble with radio work and navigation etc... Its good to hear that dyslexia is not FAA disqualifying, because this friend has expressed interest in flying but has not taken the first step.

The only reason I mentioned dyslexia with bob is because my buddy who is dyslexic thought bob might be too. He does have issues with spelling and will mistake/confuse words. But this might just be because bob is an engineer
 
Dyslexia is often stacked with other issues like ADD. Both together is common. I would also be concerned about this pilot if he displayed complacency or difficulty staying on task. An aircraft is no place to be day dreaming. It is hard to stay ahead of the plane when you are thinking about what you had for breakfast last week. Depending on the friend I would try and talk to him and suggest he SLOW down on his training. Tell him don't rush trying to complete the training. Is he the start one thing and not finish and move on the something else type? If he is ADD he may loose interest and go another direction like dirt bikes , golf or whatever.

If he is insistent drive him in the direction of list, lists, lists, My 7yo has a list for EVERYTHING. Bedtime list, Morning list. Chores list. They have made a HUGE difference in her ability to function. It is the same for me I had a pre made sheet with everything I needed. My page had ATIS in order down the center of the page. A column for departure and approach. All I did was fill in the blank Everything got filled in before start-up then as needed during the flight. For anyone dyslexic routine and repetition is the key to success. Do it the same way, every time, every time, every time..
Below is a poor example of what I had preprinted. Im am sure it is out of date but you get the idea. The only point is repetition was a must when learning. As long as I stayed well organized with the routine things the not routine things were controllable. This worked for me for about 400hr.

My Home
Clear 119.4
Ground 121.9
Tower 118.45
FSS 122.2
App. -________
Emergency 121.9
tell ground
Destination
Aircraft ____N______
Heading_____
ALT.________
They give me back.
Dep. Freq____
Squak________
Taxi______
RWY______
Turn HDG____

complete Atis in order
Departure Approach
-----ATIS-----
_________ AP _________
_________ Code _________
_________ Zulu time _______
_________ Cond __________
_________ Visibality________
At the bottom room for all my approach info to be filled in.
 
douglas393 said:
Not to be contrary, but are you really a friend of Bob's or just a drinking buddy. If you were a friend and concerned about his plans for flying and fearful it is not the thing for him, have you actually tried to talk him about it. I would not be surprised if his is aware of these issues and may be using flying as a way to see if he can "cure" himself of them. Waiting for him to kill himself, someone else, or waiting for his CFI to stop training him(if his CFI even does this) is not what a true friend would do.

As for him having dyslexia, my guess is he actually has something covered by the category of auditory perceptual deficits which is sort of but not exactly a dyslexia(which refers to words written on paper) of hearing. I am not sure of whether or not it would disqualify him from flying, or whether it is recognized by the FAA, but it could possibly cause problems with radio skills.

Do him a favor and talk to him. If he is really a friend and he considers you a friend he will take your concerns as what they really are, if the relationship is different at least take console in the fact that cared enought to say something to him.



Doug
Click to expand...

Good post Doug. Right on the money.
 
douglas393 said:
Really??? I am not suggesting he drag him down, but if I was about to embark on something of which a friend of mine thought could be dangerous for me or ill advised I would want him to tell me his worries. That is what I would consider a real friend, and not a fair weather friend.
Click to expand...

Nope. A true friend holds the beer and videos the stunt. If you can offer safety advise that increases the odds of completion sure, if the advice is don't do it, you are being femme and dragging your friend down.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Nope. A true friend holds the beer and videos the stunt. If you can offer safety advise that increases the odds of completion sure, if the advice is don't do it, you are being femme and dragging your friend down.
Click to expand...
That was true when I was in high school and college and did not know any better, but with time one grows up and realizes a broken neck is a life long condition. I have known too many people who have died young or never fulfilled their potential because no one was smart enough not to hold the beer, not video the stunt, and not stopping the stunt, to agree with your gibberish. Visiting the trauma unit to see your previously healthy friend dying on a ventilator because you were not smart enough or brave enough to stop them from doing a stupid thing is not an experience I would wish on anyone.

If you do not have the courage to stop a friend from doing something that is going to kill him then I am not sure you are his friend. That is not being femme and if it is well then so be it. But hey at least you have the you tube video of your friend killing himself when you could have stopped him.
 
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