Dumb/rhetorical/hypothetical question

[darrell]

I am an A&P, and have been for some time prior to receiving my PP certificate. During my flight training, one of the subjects that my instructor would bring up, in regard to aviation regulations, was about what maintenance I could legally perform on an airplane. I would commonly joke and say "anything I want, barring the need for an IA." She didn't particularly like that answer, and went to lengths to ensure that when asked during my oral, I respond with the answer as if I did not have an A&P certificate (that is, as if I was "just a pilot").

And hence my dumb question... During the oral portion of the private pilot examination, am I required to know aviation regulations which do not necessarily apply to me? That is, if during my oral exam, the examiner asked what maintenance I would be allowed to perform, would it be completely legitimate to answer "as an A&P, I am permitted to blah blah blah..."? From my perspective, asking me what other pilots would be limited to is completely irrelevant, and I should not be required to remember regulations that only apply to other pilots and not to me.

As mentioned, this is completely hypothetical/rhetorical, since my DME knew I was an A&P prior to the start of the test, and he didn't even ask me any question about performing maintenance.

In the same vein, has anyone ever had questions asked of them during an oral exam that were similarly irrelevant to them as an applicant?

 

[Skip Miller]

That is, if during my oral exam, the examiner asked what maintenance I would be allowed to perform, would it be completely legitimate to answer "as an A&P, I am permitted to blah blah blah..."?

Absolutely yes. However, expect and be prepared to answer the next question: "What would a private pilot who was not an A&P be permitted to do?"

-Skip

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Absolutely yes. However, expect and be prepared to answer the next question: "What would a private pilot who was not an A&P be permitted to do?"

-Skip

And my answer would be "Why do I care?" If the question doesn't apply to me . . .

 

[darrell]

And my answer would be "Why do I care?" If the question doesn't apply to me . . .

And that's exactly my point. To be honest, I'd likely just chicken out and either give the expected answer or at least know where to find it.

 

[Skip Miller]

And my answer would be "Why do I care?" If the question doesn't apply to me . . .

'cause the OP may not hold a current A&P cert for the full time he is current as a PP-ASEL or greater. The oral is about what you know, not about what you can get by with.

In reality, as soon as the DPE finds out you are an A&P, he will move on to find areas of knowledge where you have not had significant training outside of the typical ground school.

-Skip

 

[eman1200]

...In the same vein, has anyone ever had questions asked of them during an oral exam that were similarly irrelevant to them as an applicant?

well, I haven't had my oral/checkride yet, but I do find this a little interesting. couple of examples that are p!ssing me off. at the most basic level:

what are the minimum eligibility requirements for getting your PPL:

really? uh, lets see, we're having a flippin conversation in ENGLISH so I guess I meet that requirement, uh, I drove myself here so I guess I meet that age requirement, but really? you're gonna ask me this question? THIS is going to make me a safer pilot?!? ok.

parachute jumping: when are all occupants required to wear parachutes?

uh, who cares, I'm never going to go parachute jumping? nor will I bank my plane >60 degrees nor will I pitch up or down >30 degrees, so really who gives a bleep?!?

there are a few more that I'm like "really, you're gonna ask me THAT?!?" but what can ya do...I'm not gonna turn around and tell my dpe "I dunno, nor do I care, as that will never apply to me".

 

[bbchien]

Well, when I took my oral CFI exam, I had not told my inquisitor that I was an AME. I played semi-dumb, he dug in and I slowly let on over 25 minutes. At then end of the interrogation, he realized that he had been snookered and the 30 minutes were gone, never to be recovered.

After that we had great fun and a "fun" checkride.
So my advice, "be cool" . You know MORE than the CFI at least with regard to airworthiness and type certification compliance. Smile a lot.

 

[timwinters]

In the same vein, has anyone ever had questions asked of them during an oral exam that were similarly irrelevant to them as an applicant?

A bunch of questions on both the written and oral about NDBs and ADFs.

Pretty old school, even in 2003 when it got my private certificate.

 

[Norman]

And hence my dumb question... During the oral portion of the private pilot examination, am I required to know aviation regulations which do not necessarily apply to me? That is, if during my oral exam, the examiner asked what maintenance I would be allowed to perform, would it be completely legitimate to answer "as an A&P, I am permitted to blah blah blah..."? From my perspective, asking me what other pilots would be limited to is completely irrelevant, and I should not be required to remember regulations that only apply to other pilots and not to me.

Well, you could have answered that a pilot can perform what is allowed under Part 43 Appendix A. That likely would have satisfied the examiner.

OTOH, non-certificated persons can perform just about any maintenance if it is performed under the supervision of an A&P. You, as a pilot, would have to sign off your work and the A&P or IA would have to approve it for return to service.

 

[Old Geek]

And my answer would be "Why do I care?" If the question doesn't apply to me . . .

Seems a bit inappropriate to me. What if your A&P cert was suspended?

Or to look at it from another angle, as an A&P, you should be able to advise a pilot that the maintenance he performed was legal/not legal.

 

[FastEddieB]

well, I haven't had my oral/checkride yet, but I do find this a little interesting. couple of examples that are p!ssing me off.

Sorry, but this seems a bit odd to me.

I've studied for and passed over a half dozen writtens and practical tests over the years.

I took a look at what I needed to learn, and learned it.

To paraphrase, "Mine was not to reason why, mine was just to pass the damned test!"

I think your reaction, mainly the getting angry part, smacks of "anti-authority". Best to just assume that the powers that be have their reasons for each and every question, and to just learn the subject matter. Your vindication can come with acing the test - even the dumb parts!

 

[kenjr]

And my answer would be "Why do I care?" If the question doesn't apply to me . . .

Just know where it is in the FAR/AIM.

My DPE asked me when I needed to get my medical again and I told him in 2 years (by the 31st of January 2015 to be exact). I'm over 40 and I'll never be under 40 again so that's all I memorized. He asked what if I was under 40 and I gave him that answer...he thought it was funny but still asked me to look it up.

So, be prepared for the non-A&P answer. You'll have seen it on the written prep questions. It's not much really, oil changes, adding some hydraulic fluid, etc...

I actually had to 'teach' my DPE on this topic. I am a part owner in a plane and he asked me a question about something being inop and I mentioned that I'd placard the inop gauge but wasn't sure if I needed to make any notations in the aircraft logbook. He sat upright and sternly said, "Pilots can't make entries in the aircraft logbook!!!". After I showed him the FAR's, he admitted he was wrong. He's never owned a plane and made the assumption pilot's couldn't do anything.

So, anyway who knows where your DPE will be on the subject. He might very well just say, hey you're an A&P you can do whatever...what can't YOU do?

Just be prepared for any answer - have it tabbed in the FAR and you're golden.

 

[Old Geek]

Whatever you do, be diplomatic about it. I took my PP checkride in my Special Light Sport airplane. The examiner was not familiar with the differences between standard cert aircraft and S-LSA aircraft and I had to tiptoe around a lot. He assumed a couple of times that S-LSA was the same as experimental amateur-built. I tried diplomatically to explain the difference, but once he made it clear that I was the one being tested, I backed off and gave him the answers he wanted. Perhaps not the best solution, but I passed.

 

[asgcpa]

My dad used to fly for the RCAF piloting Canadair CF86s. He chuckled when he told me a story that when he got back into flying after a 15 year absence and a 19 year old wet behind the ears newly minted CFI told him " this is an airplane" , that he had some fun.

 

[poadeleted20]

And my answer would be "Why do I care?" If the question doesn't apply to me . . .

I agree. If this was a CFI applicant, the question would be relevant, since the applicant would have to teach non-mechanics the rules applicable to non-mechanics. However, for PP training, the instructor involved is giving inappropriate training by suggesting that this trainee answer in that manner.

 

[C182P]

It seems to me (and I'm not a DPE) that the oral isn't 100% about "what do you know?" -- that some portion of it is intended to make sure you're able to solve problems. If you're asked something you don't know, answering "why should I care?" is not solving a problem, while answering "I don't know but I do know how to solve it -- I go to FAR part 43...." is, and this would (in my opinion) make any DPE a whole lot more happy than a correct response that it doesn't apply to you.

At the very least, I suspect that which of these two approaches you take will affect how the rest of the oral goes. Go read Pete's post about not needing to read paper charts because he only needs GPS.

 

[Ghery]

A bunch of questions on both the written and oral about NDBs and ADFs.

Pretty old school, even in 2003 when it got my private certificate.

Old school or not, I can point you to an airport near me where there are two instrument approaches, one using GPS and the other an ADF. Use what you have and know how to use it. Oh, and if you need an instrument approach and you don't have either, you aren't going.

My dad used to fly for the RCAF piloting Canadair CF86s. He chuckled when he told me a story that when he got back into flying after a 15 year absence and a 19 year old wet behind the ears newly minted CFI told him " this is an airplane" , that he had some fun.

I'll bet he did.