dual processors

[Ken Ibold]

Now that I'm shopping for a laptop for my wife again, I have a question. What does dual-core processing do for you? Although she primarily does lightweight stuff like web or word processing, she also does movie making. Would a dual processor help in that regard? (Yes, I plan to max out the RAM.)

 

[mikea]

Now that I'm shopping for a laptop for my wife again, I have a question. What does dual-core processing do for you? Although she primarily does lightweight stuff like web or word processing, she also does movie making. Would a dual processor help in that regard? (Yes, I plan to max out the RAM.)

You want Dual-core, actually CoreDual.

Ken, for all that is holy....wait a few weeks for the new MacBook Pro once they announce the new Mermom CPUs.

Take a look at new the 24" iMac.
http://www.apple.com/imac/

Review: http://www.nwwnetwork.org/24imac

They come with movie software. For more power than iMovie try Final Cut Express HD.
http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/

 

[Ken Ibold]

Ken, for all that is holy....wait a few weeks for the new MacBook Pro once they announce the new Mermom CPUs.

Looks neat, but that's the biggest damn laptop I've EVER seen!!!

 

[poadeleted20]

Dual-core processing helps stabilize the warp field inducers so there is less demand on the matter/anti-matter cooling system. However, it doubles the number of isolinear chips needed.

At least that's what LaForge told me.

 

[mikea]

Looks neat, but that's the biggest damn laptop I've EVER seen!!!

LOL! Believe it not there are carrying cases for the iMac.

The MacBook Pro fits nicely in my backpack.

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/

I'm advising holding off buying one until the CPU upgrade is announced which should be really soon.

 

[JRitt]

If you are looking for a Windows Unit (yes some people use them) I would also hold off untill after the new year when Vista comes out and get a system that has a Core 2 Duo (64bit processor) and a DX-10 video card. Both (the DX-10 card more) will help you take full advantage of Vista

 

[mikea]

If you are looking for a Windows Unit (yes some people use them) I would also hold off untill after the new year when Vista comes out and get a system that has a Core 2 Duo (64bit processor) and a DX-10 video card. Both (the DX-10 card more) will help you take full advantage of Vista

If you're looking to run Vista I would wait until 2008 after Service Pack 2.

I will never buy a copy. I bought my last copy of Windows.

 

[gismo]

Now that I'm shopping for a laptop for my wife again, I have a question. What does dual-core processing do for you? Although she primarily does lightweight stuff like web or word processing, she also does movie making. Would a dual processor help in that regard? (Yes, I plan to max out the RAM.)

To answer your original question, IME multi cores (or even Hyperthreading which is essentially simulated dual cores) provide little benefit unless the software running on them is specifically designed to take advantage and/or you are running more than one compute intensive application concurrently. Also it's my understanding that XP isn't particularly good at balancing the load of multiple applications across multiple processors and that Vista (the next Windows) is the first attempt at tackling that problem.

So, the bottom line as I understand it is that for the kind of operations you've described, Core Duo won't buy you much but might in the future if you upgrade to Vista. I would expect that some of the latest games will take good advantage of the extra compute power of a Core Duo motherboard.

 

[jesse]

Now that I'm shopping for a laptop for my wife again, I have a question. What does dual-core processing do for you? Although she primarily does lightweight stuff like web or word processing, she also does movie making. Would a dual processor help in that regard? (Yes, I plan to max out the RAM.)

The actual cost of going with a dual core processor really will not be all that much more. I think it would be silly right now to buy a laptop without it. You may not be able to take full advantage of it right now but you will in the future. If the software is multi threaded the performance advantage in video rendering will be huge with dual processors.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Here is a non-techie, bottom-feeding-user suggestion; If it is 'new', wait a couple years til the bugs get worked out! (keep in mind I'm the type that recently stopped using a 4'x2' paper (and pencil) ledger at his business!

 

[gkainz]

There's only 2 kinds of computers (or any other kind of electronics) out there ...

Experimental and obsolete. The experimental you just purchased morphs into obsolete as you walk out the door.

 

[jesse]

Dual Core is not exactly experimental. Nor is that much more expensive.

 

[AuntPeggy]

To answer your question, movie-making will benefit from dual, word processing and web development will not.

hold off untill after the new year when Vista comes out

I really like Vista. It is the most friendly innovation for Users since the first Mac. I love the new "ribbon" interface. Vista separates users from administrators roles without requiring reboots and plugs the holes and inconveniences of mixing them together. Should beat the crap out of viruses. But, it still needs lots of work. I don't expect to see it released on time.

All this from a software/hardare curmudgeon. I resist and rail against new things. I distrust Microsoft and despise their high-handed manipulation of the marketplace.

Anyway, I second the suggestion to wait for the new operating systems if you can.
- Aunt Peggy

 

[jesse]

I really like Vista. It is the most friendly innovation for Users since the first Mac. I love the new "ribbon" interface. Vista separates users from administrators roles without requiring reboots and plugs the holes and inconveniences of mixing them together. Should beat the crap out of viruses. But, it still needs lots of work. I don't expect to see it released on time.

Based on the beta of Vista and Office 2007 that I've played with.. They have a long damn ways to go yet. We'll see if they clean it up.

As far as security..It is absolutely impossible to make a statement about a Microsoft product being secure. How can you say something is secure when you can't even see what makes it tick? This is the flaw with closed source..You are simply listening to what the sales people are telling you. For all you know there could be some huge ass gaping hole. You won't know about it 'till it's too late.

Open source gives you the upperhand. I use open source products as much as possible for anything that is mission critical. I can look at the code and perform my own "security audit" per say. Sure it's impossible for me to really look at the entire package and think about every line..But I can get an idea real quick if it's written well after looking at a thousand lines or so. If something busts I can fix it. I'm not at the mercy of another vendor. I am a person that prefers to be directly responsible for anything. Open source allows this. If it breaks it's my fault and I'll be the guy to fix it. I'm not sitting there twiddling my thumbs waiting for some company to decide if they will help you out or not.

 

[Keith Lane]

Dual-core processing helps stabilize the warp field inducers so there is less demand on the matter/anti-matter cooling system. However, it doubles the number of isolinear chips needed.

At least that's what LaForge told me.

Here's a clear cut example of an exciting new product

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5125780462773187994

I'm sorry to say a friend of mine sent me this link and said I was the first person he thought of.
good for a laugh.....
I kind of thought of Lance Fisher

 

[Greebo]

The titanic was unsinkable, the (oh dang what was the name of the 50's airliner that had so many problems...) was a perfect, fully safe design, etc.

We've trained for weeks for emergency preparedness, but we forgot one thing when we trained: We forgot the emergency!

As far as security..It is absolutely impossible to make a statement about a Microsoft product being secure. How can you say something is secure when you can't even see what makes it tick? This is the flaw with closed source..You are simply listening to what the sales people are telling you. For all you know there could be some huge ass gaping hole. You won't know about it 'till it's too late.

We don't often agree, but you are dead spot on with this statement!

-- Microsoft Certified Solutions Developer

 

[Keith Lane]

The titanic was unsinkable, the (oh dang what was the name of the 50's airliner that had so many problems...) was a perfect, fully safe design, etc.

de Havilland Comet

 

[Henning]

Open source gives you the upperhand.

Nononononononono! Open source gives you the upperhand. Doesn't give me squat. Nor does it do anything for 95% or more of computer users. The rest of us need a machine to do the things we need it to do. Microsoft is sometimes a PITA, although, For all my applications from this to Office 2000 suite (yes, I own the 2000 and don't want to pay for 2003, but my 2000 still does all that it ever has on XP), it runs all my navigational software and quite stabily. I can just load in software for applications I want and they work 97% of the time without a hitch, and when I do have a hitch I can figure it out by clicking around using my very limited knowledge. I haven't programmed a computer since I was like 11 and we had a Trash 80 with 2k and a cassette deck.

Microsoft ain't perfect and is an occassional PIMA, but nothing I've come across has been less. My Mac owning friends are always asking me to help with their PITA. Linux, I can't figure out if it'll run what I need it to run. It's like the Freemasonery of computing. I ain't got time for that crap.

For me personnally, Microsoft has always given me a good value, and no one has come forth and offered me better, so I go with what the Application writers of the stuff I need write to, and they overwhelmingly write to windows. I know, I can virtually run... blah blah blah... I've tried running my navigational stuff on a Mac Powerbook a Mate of mine had who swore his machine blah emulate blah virtual blah... he never got it to work right, you couldn't get to half the functions and it wouldn't interface the gps properly. I'm sure you could get it to work. Heck, you may know how to work it on Linux. I don't, and I haven't got the time or patience to figure it out. At least MS problems that stump me, there's 4 people in spitting distance who can tell me what to do.

I wish one of you geeks would step up and build a system that gives me what MS gives me with everything you guys always complain about fixed. Shoot, you'd get richer than...Bill Gates!!! Except you won't, because you'll be open source. Bill ain't a dummy, he keeps closed source, open source is how he stole it from Steve who stole it from, who was it, Xerox?

"Every O/S Sucks" is on my hard drive, it represents my opinion quite well, plus it's funny as hell.

 

[mikea]

Here's a clear cut example of an exciting new product

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5125780462773187994

I'm sorry to say a friend of mine sent me this link and said I was the first person he thought of.
good for a laugh.....
I kind of thought of Lance Fisher

NEW Product!? This is from 1997! Now just about everyone has an encabulator built right in. It is funny to see how big they used to be.

 

[mikea]

I wish one of you geeks would step up and build a system that gives me what MS gives me with everything you guys always complain about fixed. Shoot, you'd get richer than...Bill Gates!!! Except you won't, because you'll be open source. Bill ain't a dummy, he keeps closed source, open source is how he stole it from Steve who stole it from, who was it, Xerox?

http://www.ubuntu.com
http://www.apple.com

...or did you mean "so it works with Microsoft's locked in file formats?" They can do that too, although it's an arms race as MS works to make the new stuff more obscure so it doesn't work with Microsoft's software either.

 

[mikea]

The titanic was unsinkable, the (oh dang what was the name of the 50's airliner that had so many problems...) was a perfect, fully safe design, etc.

de Havilland Comet

I think that was an early case that proved Adam Osborne's "The pioneers are the ones with the arrows in their (backs)."

The airliner industry learned a lot from those problems.

 

[TMetzinger]

Dual core machines basically allow the computer to do multiple tasks at once (not very fast in sequence, but simultaneously). Your work processor won't run faster, but if you are playing a video in one window and typing in the other, your video won't stutter when you are typing very fast.

Multicore CPUs are how chip manufacturers are giving folks the performance boost they expect without breaking the laws of physics, until the next big jump in chipmaking technology.

 

[jesse]

Nononononononono! Open source gives you the upperhand. Doesn't give me squat. Nor does it do anything for 95% or more of computer users.

That is not true at all. Think about this. You purchase a closed source software package to run your company on. After a few years that company runs itself bankrupt and no longer exists. One day your closed source software package quits working. Congrats, You are screwed. If this would have been an open source package you could have hired a competent programmer to fix it. Chances are if this would have been open source there would be competent programmers out there fixing it already at no cost to you.

The rest of us need a machine to do the things we need it to do. Microsoft is sometimes a PITA, although, For all my applications from this to Office 2000 suite (yes, I own the 2000 and don't want to pay for 2003, but my 2000 still does all that it ever has on XP), it runs all my navigational software and quite stabily. I can just load in software for applications I want and they work 97% of the time without a hitch, and when I do have a hitch I can figure it out by clicking around using my very limited knowledge.

Understandable. This is an unfortunante situation that everyone must deal with. The fact of the matter is this closed source software is just not the way to go. You are forced into it. We are all forced into it. Infact right now I am at work setting up an Exchange server (Microsoft product)..Why am I doing this? Because I have no other viable option.

Microsoft ain't perfect and is an occassional PIMA, but nothing I've come across has been less. My Mac owning friends are always asking me to help with their PITA. Linux, I can't figure out if it'll run what I need it to run. It's like the Freemasonery of computing. I ain't got time for that crap.

I don't think Linux is exactly ready for the average home user yet. But projects like Ubuntu http://www.ubuntu.com are making GREAT progress. I've deployed many Ubuntu workstations lately for people that are not computer literate at all. They work great for what I set them up to do. Guess what? We didn't have to pay $133 per machine for a Windows license to do it.

For me personnally, Microsoft has always given me a good value, and no one has come forth and offered me better, so I go with what the Application writers of the stuff I need write to, and they overwhelmingly write to windows.

I don't blame them. They are developing for the largest user base. Languages like Java though are making cross platform software packages a reality. Hopefully things continue to push in this direction. Microsoft is going to do everything they can do to stop it by way of .NET.

I wish one of you geeks would step up and build a system that gives me what MS gives me with everything you guys always complain about fixed. Shoot, you'd get richer than...Bill Gates!!! Except you won't, because you'll be open source. Bill ain't a dummy, he keeps closed source, open source is how he stole it from Steve who stole it from, who was it, Xerox?

You don't understand the open source software model what so ever. You can make millions and billions with it just like you can with closed source. Open source is not how Gates stole his earlier software. All of that was closed source, he just played his cards right and duplicated it.

Open source is probably going to be the future. Get used to it. One day you may even see Microsoft start releasing source.

 

[TMetzinger]

Look at what Sun is doing. They published the source to Solaris 10, and told the community - go play with this. The community makes improvements, and anyone can install these improvements on OpenSolaris (which is not supported by Sun). Periodically Sun takes the best improvements, runs them through their internal QA processes, and releases them as an update to Solaris, which they then support. It's brilliant - they get development work done for free!

And an end user can decide which version meets their business requirements - Open (bleeding edge but no liability on Sun's part) or Commercial (not as "fresh" but you can sue Sun if it misbehaves).

My government clients have a policy that REQUIRES the use of commercial software as opposed to open source, primarily so that someone has a duty to ensure that the product meets commonly accepted standards of quality, particularly around security.

 

[Henning]

Dual-core processing helps stabilize the warp field inducers so there is less demand on the matter/anti-matter cooling system. However, it doubles the number of isolinear chips needed.

At least that's what LaForge told me.

Yeah, that's pretty much my understanding as well.

 

[Henning]

The actual cost of going with a dual core processor really will not be all that much more. I think it would be silly right now to buy a laptop without it. You may not be able to take full advantage of it right now but you will in the future. If the software is multi threaded the performance advantage in video rendering will be huge with dual processors.

Serious question, a laptop lasts me about 2 years before it has a hardware malfunction that makes repair a poor value so I just replace. Taking that timeframe into account, do you think that the advantages of dual core will be realized by me on my next laptop if I buy before the end of the year or when Vista first becomes available? btw I do not game.

 

[mikea]

Serious question, a laptop lasts me about 2 years before it has a hardware malfunction that makes repair a poor value so I just replace. Taking that timeframe into account, do you think that the advantages of dual core will be realized by me on my next laptop if I buy before the end of the year or when Vista first becomes available? btw I do not game.

Don't buy a laptop that will only last two years. Applecare which is ~$175 covers even the battery for 3 years.

Why go through the hassle of having to restore your stuff so often?

Besides, with Windows it takes nearly a week of banging and updating until the thing is viable again.

 

[Henning]

Don't buy a laptop that will only last two years. Applecare which is ~$175 covers even the battery for 3 years.

Why go through the hassle of having to restore your stuff so often?

Besides, with Windows it takes nearly a week of banging and updating until the thing is viable again.

Get a copy of Nobletec (Jeppesen) Admiral or VNS (Virtual Navigation Suite) and see if you can make it work, if you can, I'd go Mac. I won't even ask you to try with Transas (It would cost you 10k to try). I've had a Mate who was a Mac geek try and he couldn't get it (Nobletec) to run right in a month, but I'm not sure of his geeking abilities. Please, I'm serious. BTW, they last 2 years because I operate in a rather rough environment. I've considered the Panasonic ruggedized laptops, but they are typically a generation behind already processor wise and I can buy 3 regular laptops for the price of one Panasonic Ruggedized. BTW, the guys I go offshore with who have Macs don't get more than 2 years out of theirs either. I was considering a Dell and getting the 3 year onsite warrantee that's worked through NCR. I'm considering going to Dr. Bruces method.

 

[mikea]

Get a copy of Nobletec (Jeppesen) Admiral or VNS (Virtual Navigation Suite) and see if you can make it work, if you can, I'd go Mac. I won't even ask you to try with Transas (It would cost you 10k to try). I've had a Mate who was a Mac geek try and he couldn't get it (Nobletec) to run right in a month, but I'm not sure of his geeking abilities. Please, I'm serious. BTW, they last 2 years because I operate in a rather rough environment. I've considered the Panasonic ruggedized laptops, but they are typically a generation behind already processor wise and I can buy 3 regular laptops for the price of one Panasonic Ruggedized. BTW, the guys I go offshore with who have Macs don't get more than 2 years out of theirs either. I was considering a Dell and getting the 3 year onsite warrantee that's worked through NCR. I'm considering going to Dr. Bruces method.

Henning, I CAN make it work, two ways as long as you don't need any special PC cards or a parallel port.

Since you don't need every bit of CPU Ommph, just buy a copy of Windows (Home Edition is fine, that's what I have - $80) and Parallels. ($79) They support USB devices and the CD/DVD drive.

It will run like any other Windows PC, and it doesn't have to just be Windows. And THAT PC is disposable. It's just a file of whatever size the used space your PC's hard disk grown to. In that case, if you have a copy of the file, you have the PC. You can back it up and move it to another laptop instantly.

I'm using my mine for VPN software which is extremely proprietary and low level and it works fine.

I just attended a web conference where we had audio in Skypecast under Mac OS X while I watched the presentation in Citrix GoToMeeting in Windows under Parallels...on the same Macbook Pro laptop while I worked in a bunch other windows and the CPU(s - Dual Core) stayed at around 8-12%

It's not a Toughbook but Kent and I have a protective Neoprene sleeve for mine. Besides, get the Applecare. They'll fix or replace it as long as you don't throw it overboard. Kent is tossing his 17" Macbook Pro in the back of his truck.

 

[jesse]

Serious question, a laptop lasts me about 2 years before it has a hardware malfunction that makes repair a poor value so I just replace. Taking that timeframe into account, do you think that the advantages of dual core will be realized by me on my next laptop if I buy before the end of the year or when Vista first becomes available? btw I do not game.

Dell has an Intel Duo Core notebook for $650. Duo really is not that much more expensive. Break it, buy another one. Break that one.. Buy another one. You'll still be ahead over $2,000 Macbook Pro.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Dell has an Intel Duo Core notebook for $650. Duo really is not that much more expensive. Break it, buy another one. Break that one.. Buy another one. You'll still be ahead over $2,000 Macbook Pro.

Compare Apples to apples, Jesse. I hear this same crap from PC folks every time I buy a Mac. So, I go to Dell's site and configure a machine as close as I possibly can to what I'm buying. That's quite easy these days what with both having the same processors available.

Latest round: Dell ~$3700 to Apple's ~$2500 for what I got. No $650 laptop will compare to mine.

 

[Henning]

if you are playing a video in one window and typing in the other, your video won't stutter when you are typing very fast.

I don't have that problem.

 

[jesse]

Compare Apples to apples, Jesse. I hear this same crap from PC folks every time I buy a Mac. So, I go to Dell's site and configure a machine as close as I possibly can to what I'm buying. That's quite easy these days what with both having the same processors available.

Latest round: Dell ~$3700 to Apple's ~$2500 for what I got. No $650 laptop will compare to mine.

Sure. It won't compare to your fancy specs. But will it let me check my e-mail, write my code, and run my servers just as well? Yes.

I like to compare:

Will it do what I want?

Vs.

Will it do what that guy can do

$2,500 vs $650. Either will do what I want to do. Tough call.

 

[AirBaker]

That is not true at all. Think about this. You purchase a closed source software package to run your company on. After a few years that company runs itself bankrupt and no longer exists. One day your closed source software package quits working. Congrats, You are screwed. If this would have been an open source package you could have hired a competent programmer to fix it. Chances are if this would have been open source there would be competent programmers out there fixing it already at no cost to you.

Yeah, um... Microsoft isn't going out of business soon.

And to jump on the Mac debate, Mac's are for people who can't use Windows. It's pretty. It's cool. It's hip. It's just a white elephant amongst the business world.

 

[mikea]

Yeah, um... Microsoft isn't going out of business soon.

And to jump on the Mac debate, Mac's are for people who can't use Windows. It's pretty. It's cool. It's hip. It's just a white elephant amongst the business world.

Unless the business is doing really no money hippie things like making music, movies, or TV shows. We watched behind the scenes with Paula Deen at home on the Food Network. I pointed out they were recording the show on a Powermac.

I keep telling ya. I'm perfectly capable of running Windows. I built my own screamer. I decided in my old age I'd rather have everything on the thing keep on working so I can do other things.

In my case, I also knew I'd be able to run actual Unix from the command line when I needed to something more obscure, instead of trying to limp through with a pale copy. I can BTW, make Windows jump through hoops when I have to like at work. I eventually installed perl to save my sanity.

 

[gkainz]

...Mac's are for people who can't use Windows.

To see what the next release of Windows will look like, review the previous release of the Mac o/s ... It's been that way for years.

 

[AirBaker]

To see what the next release of Windows will look like, review the previous release of the Mac o/s ... It's been that way for years.

Then Mac users should be experts at the 'old' OS.

I just get frustrated since my family, friends, etc. can't keep their PCs running reliably and blame MS. My laptop, desktops, all run fine!

 

[AirBaker]

To see what the next release of Windows will look like, review the previous release of the Mac o/s ... It's been that way for years.

Actually, I really like the look of the Mac OS.

 

[mikea]

Then Mac users should be experts at the 'old' OS.

I just get frustrated since my family, friends, etc. can't keep their PCs running reliably and blame MS. My laptop, desktops, all run fine!

Me, too. I know what not to do. No thanks. I don't need your plug in. Even though, some phishes are unbelievably crafty.

I am convinced that no mere mortal home user can keep a Windows system clean, especially if they use Internet Explorer.

There's a new 0 day exploit out that is installed on some Russian web sites. Microsoft will issue the patch on the next monthly patch Tuesday.

 

[gkainz]

My kids grew up on Mac o/s and I really seldom had to touch the boxes. They just were pretty much bullet proof. They complained about lack of games, etc, and moved to windows (2k and then XP) and life (on their machine only) was a constant battle with spyware, viri, incompatible drivers, failed updates, malicious downloads (and I was running anti-virus, anti-spyware software and a firewall).

Recently I let them convince me they "need a mac" (again, but I don't say that) and I've divested myself of a big load - my oldest is the Administrator and it's all his responsibility now.

My wife the computer-phobe even transitioned very easily from win-based email and browser to Mac.