Dual Given ?

[jdwatson]

In terms of logging, are IPCs, annual aircraft check-outs, BFRs & etc considered dual given ?

What say you ?

 

[tonycondon]

yes
if im in the airplane, and teaching anything, providing recurrent training, etc. its dual given. and almost as a rule, if im in the airplane, im teaching.

 

[nosehair]

Note the regulation for the Flight Review, 61.56 says "a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training."

A properly documented Flight Review will have these minimum times logged as dual instruction by an authorized CFI.

The IPC is not exactly worded that way. The proficiency check could be "OK, prove to me you don't need any instruction, and you pass the check", and there would be no technical reason to log it as dual, but that is up to you.

It is common practice to log any instruction, IPC, aircraft checkout, etc., as dual.

 

[jdwatson]

yes
if im in the airplane, and teaching anything, providing recurrent training, etc. its dual given. and almost as a rule, if im in the airplane, im teaching.

Is this because you just can't help yourself ?

 

[jdwatson]

Note the regulation for the Flight Review, 61.56 says "a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training."

A properly documented Flight Review will have these minimum times logged as dual instruction by an authorized CFI.

The IPC is not exactly worded that way. The proficiency check could be "OK, prove to me you don't need any instruction, and you pass the check", and there would be no technical reason to log it as dual, but that is up to you.

It is common practice to log any instruction, IPC, aircraft checkout, etc., as dual.

Thanks. I like your definition. I'm of the habit if there's an instructor on board, I'm getting dual. Especially if I get invoiced for it.

 

[tonycondon]

Is this because you just can't help yourself ?

pretty much yes. after hundreds of hours of instruction it is very hard to keep my mouth shut...

 

[KennyFlys]

pretty much yes. after hundreds of hours of instruction it is very hard to keep my mouth shut...

Has anyone ever told you to shut up?

 

[tonycondon]

all the time kenny

 

[poadeleted20]

First, there is nothing in the rule on logging (61.51) about the logging of "dual given" (or more properly, "training given"). The only places the FAA makes mention of hours of training given are in 61.195 (regarding who may train first-time flight instructor candidates) and in Part 141 (regarding qualifications for chief and assistant chief instructor), with no specification about how to document the time or exactly what counts.

As for flight reviews, these may only be given by an "authorized instructor," and the reg clearly states they are "flight training," so I'm quite sure they would count as "training given."

If the IPC is given by an "authorized instructor," I should think it would count as "training given" for those purposes, since the CFI would be exercising his/her flight instructor privileges to give it. OTOH, if the IPC is given by one of the non-CFI authorized IPC-givers (a examiner, military IP, company check pilot, etc.), then it would not be "training given" since the person is not an "authorized instructor."

As for an aircraft checkout, the FAR's are silent, but, just as with Tony, if I'm teaching, you're getting "training time" and I'm logging "training given" for the purposes listed above.

 

[Chas]

Good posts and clear rationale given. Most people hopefully figured as much, but still flight reviews etc don't come that often to most reciptients (unlike the instructors), and things can get just a little fuzzy round the edges .... *blurry icon*

 

[MauleSkinner]

First, there is nothing in the rule on logging (61.51) about the logging of "dual given" (or more properly, "training given"). The only places the FAA makes mention of hours of training given are in 61.195 (regarding who may train first-time flight instructor candidates) and in Part 141 (regarding qualifications for chief and assistant chief instructor), with no specification about how to document the time or exactly what counts.

The application process for examiners also requires certain amounts of instruction given, including time specific to the examiner privileges sought.

When was the last time you logged it as "commercial instruction given"?

Fly safe!

David

 

[poadeleted20]

When was the last time you logged it as "commercial instruction given"?

Actually, I always log what sort of training I was giving in the remarks block. Guess that habit will have been useful if I ever apply for a pilot examiner designation.