"drone" attacks warship - aviation related kind of

alaskaflyer

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Alaskaflyer
This is meant as non-political, I just read this article and thought it noteworthy that Hezbollah has developed an unmanned aerial drone :dunno: Is this the future? I just also read that Washington state politicians are pushing for UAV patrols of the Canadian border. I edited the article to take most of the "blah blah blah" out.

Hezbollah Drone Batters Israeli Warship
By HAMZA HENDAWI
Associated Press Writer
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AP Photo/KEVIN FRAYER
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BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) -- Hezbollah rammed an Israeli warship with an unmanned aircraft rigged with explosives Friday, setting it ablaze after Israeli warplanes smashed Lebanon's links to the world one by one and destroyed the headquarters of the Islamic guerrilla group's leader.
The attack on the warship off Beirut's Mediterranean coast was the most dramatic incident on a violent day in the conflict that erupted suddenly Wednesday and appeared to be careening out of control despite pleas from world leaders for restraint on both sides.
"You wanted an open war and we are ready for an open war," Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said in a taped statement. He vowed to strike even deeper into Israel with rockets.

The ramming of the Israeli missile warship indicated Hezbollah has added a new weapon to the arsenal of rockets and mortars it has used against Israel. The Israeli army said the ship carrying several dozen sailors suffered severe damage and was set on fire. Several hours after the attack, the fire was put out and the ship was being towed back to Israel. Al-Jazeera TV said the Israeli military was searching for four missing sailors.
Despite fears the assault could bring down the Western-backed, anti-Syrian government of Lebanon, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert vowed the campaign would continue until Hezbollah guerrillas, who are backed by Syria and Iran, lose their near-control of southern Lebanon bordering Israel.
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The attack on the warship was apparently timed to coincide with Nasrallah's message on the militant group's television station. "The surprises that I have promised you will start now. Now in the middle of the sea, facing Beirut, the Israeli warship ... look at it burning," Nasrallah boasted.
Israeli military officials said the drone apparently was developed by Hezbollah. The Lebanese guerrilla group has managed to fly unmanned spy drones over northern Israel at least twice in recent years.
"If they kill us all, we will still not give them back the prisoners," said one resident, Nasser Ali Nasser, as palls of smoke rose from fuel depots hit farther south. "We have nothing left to lose except our dignity. We sacrifice ourselves for Sheik Nasrallah," he said.
President Bush, who has backed Israel's right to defend itself, spoke by phone with Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora from a G-8 summit in Russia and "reiterated his position" that the Israeli attacks should limit any impact on civilians, White House spokesman Tony Snow said.
But the promise fell short of the Lebanese leader's request for pressure for a cease-fire.

The level of damage inflicted by Israel appeared finely calibrated. For example, a missile punched a hole in a major suspension bridge on the Beirut-Damascus road but did not destroy it, unlike less expensive bridges on the road that were brought down. An Israeli strike hit fuel depots at one of Beirut's two power stations - sending massive fireballs and smoke into the sky - but avoided the station itself.
Throughout the morning, Israeli fighter-bombers pounded runways at Beirut's airport for a second day, apparently trying to ensure its closure after the Lebanese national carrier, Middle East Airlines, managed to evacuate its last five planes to Jordan. One bomb hit close to the terminal building.
Civilian casualties were mounting faster than during Israel's last major offensive in Lebanon, in 1996, an assault also sparked by Hezbollah attacks. In that campaign, 165 people were killed over 17 days, including 100 in the shelling of a U.N. base.
"We are on the right and we shall avenge every attack we endure," said Fadi Haidar, an American-Lebanese who swept up the shattered glass outside his store in south Beirut. "I have huge debts and now my store is damaged. ... But as time goes by, they will all realize that Sayyed Nasrallah is right and is working in the interest of Muslims."
There was some resentment that Hezbollah had dragged the Lebanese into another bloody fight with Israel. "As long as Hezbollah has its weapons and acts according to its leader's whims, there is pretext for Israel to keep on destroying Lebanon," said Ibrahim al-Hajj, a Christian shop owner in the southern village of Qleia.
 
alaskaflyer said:
This is meant as non-political, I just read this article and thought it noteworthy that Hezbollah has developed an unmanned aerial drone :dunno: Is this the future? I just also read that Washington state politicians are pushing for UAV patrols of the Canadian border. I edited the article to take most of the "blah blah blah" out.

Just what we need crap, in the sky that we can't "see and avoid". Yes, they are coming.
 
And to jack my own thread...Beirut Int'l was an open airport with scheduled air service from major airlines in and out. Wonder what happened when the attacks started. Did the Israeli Defense Forces coordinate attacks with Air France :dunno: Was there a NOTAM published in advance of the attacks? ;) You gotta believe advanced warning was given somehow, even if it was [fill in the blank] Center making an announcement. "Ahh, Lufthansa 321, you are advised that Beirut International is now closed. Please contact company for immediate rerouting."
 
I know inbound flights were diverted to Cyprus. Those schmucks don't give the soldiers back soon and the only thing running at Beruit Intl for quite a while will be donkey carts
 
200 dead in India. What is it with these guys- they're blowing up everything that is "NOT US". Pretty soon they will be at the butt end onf gross intolerance and will really regret it....because "what goes around comes around". In an open war, Hezbollah will LOSE. Israel will fry the countryside. Sigh.

Israel is at least consistent if not semi-Nazi. Not like the French.
 
we should learn from the Israelis, somebody punches them in the nose, they take their heads off, shoot a missle at them and get a visit from some very angry f16s, i just hope we dont stop them like we have in the past.
 
alaskaflyer said:
And to jack my own thread...Beirut Int'l was an open airport with scheduled air service from major airlines in and out. ....You gotta believe advanced warning was given somehow, even if it was [fill in the blank] Center making an announcement. "Ahh, Lufthansa 321, you are advised that Beirut International is now closed. Please contact company for immediate rerouting."

What many don't realize is that Israel is an unusually honorable combatant. You ever wonder why Arrafat's compound was shelled for twenty years and yet he was never hurt? They always called ahead. Really. For the most part (yes, I know there have been some spectacular "smart bomb" assasinations) Israel warns the civilians to move before they hit MILITARY targets.

CNN had a great example of this just today when their website posted a picture of a bridge in the process of being blown up (not smoking hours later but dirt-spewing, shrapnel-flying, kabooming!) In the picture are a crowd of clean, well-dressed young men and boys sitting around WATCHING a bomb explode. Now how, pray tell, did a crowd manage to gather itself, with a photographer at their backs, all facing ground zero, at just the right time, from just far enough away to see a bomb fall???

Alon, help me out here, is it not true that IDF warns of strikes? Unfortunately, it doesn't make for thrilling reporting to say "Live from CNN, we are gathered here to watch a laser guided bomb that should land in about... oh, 15 minutes." It does not eliminate collateral damage, after all war is war. HOWEVER, I doubt the suicide bombers show the same courtesy.
 
Dart said:
What many don't realize is that Israel is an unusually honorable combatant. You ever wonder why Arrafat's compound was shelled for twenty years and yet he was never hurt? They always called ahead. Really. For the most part (yes, I know there have been some spectacular "smart bomb" assasinations) Israel warns the civilians to move before they hit MILITARY targets.

CNN had a great example of this just today when their website posted a picture of a bridge in the process of being blown up (not smoking hours later but dirt-spewing, shrapnel-flying, kabooming!) In the picture are a crowd of clean, well-dressed young men and boys sitting around WATCHING a bomb explode. Now how, pray tell, did a crowd manage to gather itself, with a photographer at their backs, all facing ground zero, at just the right time, from just far enough away to see a bomb fall???

Alon, help me out here, is it not true that IDF warns of strikes? Unfortunately, it doesn't make for thrilling reporting to say "Live from CNN, we are gathered here to watch a laser guided bomb that should land in about... oh, 15 minutes." It does not eliminate collateral damage, after all war is war. HOWEVER, I doubt the suicide bombers show the same courtesy.
After seeing the program about the Israeli attack on the Iraq nuclear reactor in the 80s, I can easily see that as being the case. In that attack, they waited until a Sunday when the civilian workers wouldn't be there, as well as timed the attack when the change of the guard was occurring, all to minimize casualties while completing the mission of destroying the reactor.
 
Dart said:
What many don't realize is that Israel is an unusually honorable combatant. You ever wonder why Arrafat's compound was shelled for twenty years and yet he was never hurt? They always called ahead. Really. For the most part (yes, I know there have been some spectacular "smart bomb" assasinations) Israel warns the civilians to move before they hit MILITARY targets.


'course, this doesn't work with Hezbollah who has been careful to embed their equipment in with the civilians.
 
This mornings's news cited Israeli intelligence as determining that the "drone" was an Iranian made Silkworm missile and that about 100 Iranian troops are in Lebanon.
 
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woodstock said:
'course, this doesn't work with Hezbollah who has been careful to embed their equipment in with the civilians.

You are correct about this most cowardly and heinous tactic used by the Islamofacists. Totally dispicable.
 
And now this (sigh):

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[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=+1]Test planes in Alaska, official says[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]UNMANNED VEHICLES: State is called perfect place to determine their uses.[/SIZE][/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Sans-serif]Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, joined by Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii, left, holds a hearing Thursday on Unmanned Aerial Systems in Alaska on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C. On display is an unmanned plane. (Photo by CHUCK KENNEDY / McClatchy-Tribune)[/FONT]

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[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]By LIZ RUSKIN
Anchorage Daily News
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(Published: July 15, 2006) [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]WASHINGTON -- John Madden, deputy director for Alaska's division of homeland security, envisions that one day unmanned aerial vehicles will fly over Alaska routinely, making the state safer and advancing science, sometimes during the same flight.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]In the meantime, Alaska should be the nation's testing ground for these craft, known as UAS, or Unmanned Aerial Systems, Madden and other witnesses said Thursday at a hearing of the Senate Commerce Committee.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]"Only in Alaska can we test the full range of potential missions of UAS without immediately confronting the complex airspace found in most of the rest of the country," he testified. Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, and Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii, were the only senators who attended the hearing, which was specifically about the use of these craft in Alaska and the Pacific region.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]UAS are pilotless aircraft that can be as small as eagles or as large as military bombers. The armed forces have been using them for surveillance and to fire missiles, but as the technology develops, civilian agencies are considering a host of missions for them.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]Here was Madden's vision of a hypothetical day in the life of a UAS in Alaska:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]A long-range aircraft launches from its base in Southcentral Alaska to drop weather sensors over the Arctic Ocean. Along the way its cameras film the trans-Alaska oil pipeline and sends the images to the pipeline security headquarters. Then the folks at ground control get word from the Alaska State Troopers that a boat is missing on the Yukon River, so they divert the craft. The images it sends back help the troopers focus their search. Then it's on to the North Slope, where it films a caribou herd to aid wildlife researchers and keeps an eye on the Prudhoe Bay oil fields before getting to its Arctic Ocean work. On the way home, it pretends to be a commercial aircraft violating military airspace near Fairbanks, to keep the FAA and Air Force on their toes. Other errands include checking out a wildfire near Nenana and monitoring part of the Alaska Railroad.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]But little of that is possible now. For one thing, pilots of small airplanes are worried about having to share airspace with the pilotless craft. The FAA, too, has been concerned about the risk to people on the ground and to other aircraft. The agency has been allowing some UAS to fly -- 55 this year -- but only for particular missions in specific areas. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]Sometimes, the UAS don't live up to expectations. In November 2003, with an appropriation Stevens made possible, the Coast Guard tested unmanned Predators, launching them from King Salmon with hopes of eventually using them to monitor the Bering Sea fishing grounds and the maritime border. Four of five flights had to be canceled because of weather, Rear Adm. Wayne Justice testified. An engine wouldn't start, they had no de-icing system, and visibility was too poor.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]A second test, in July 2004, also encountered problems. Ten of 17 Alaska flights, remotely piloted from a ground control station in San Diego, were canceled because of weather.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]"The (aircraft) never made it to either the maritime boundary line or the high-seas driftnet area," the admiral testified. "In fact, the (craft) was not able to make a 360-degree turn anywhere within the Alaskan region due to the possibility of losing communications with the satellite."[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]At the time, Alaska's U.S. senators had nothing but praise for the craft for flying over wildfires in Alaska's Interior. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]"I am pleased to learn the Predator was able to contribute to fighting the worst fires Alaska has seen in years," Stevens said in a July 2004 press release. "It proves the Predator's capability in a variety of roles beyond those which they are being tested in Alaska."[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]Thursday, Stevens asked the witnesses to contact him if they thought of ways federal law could be changed to encourage UAS testing and use in Alaska. In past years, when he was chairman of the Appropriations Committee, he would often earmark funds for new programs he thought would work well in Alaska. But these days, as chairman of the Commerce Committee, he doesn't have the same control over the appropriations bills, and the atmosphere on Capitol Hill has not been friendly for lawmakers fond of spending millions for projects in their home states.[/SIZE][/FONT]
 
alaskaflyer said:
And now this (sigh):

[ [FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-1]"Only in Alaska can we test the full range of potential missions of UAS without immediately confronting the complex airspace found in most of the rest of the country," he testified. Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, and Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii, were the only senators who attended the hearing, which was specifically about the use of these craft in Alaska and the Pacific region.[/SIZE][/FONT]

It sounds like the Hon. Senator Stevens has as much understanding of flying issues as he has of how the Internet works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiZ-TqvVdGM
http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/497

His extensive knowlege has no bounds.
 
:p
bbchien said:
.

Israel is at least consistent if not semi-Nazi. Not like the French.

Semi-Nazi? Israel Semi-Nazi? Are you serious about that Bruce? perhaps I don't understand
 
AdamZucker said:
-Semi-Nazi? Israel Semi-Nazi? Are you serious about that Bruce? perhaps I don't understand.
My wife has several relatives who survived Auschwitz and Dachau, and many cousins who died there.

Her sense is that the roadblocks, the impossibilty of traveling to work, the defacto denial of education, the complete separation of the two competing cultures amounts to a ghettoization of the islamic minority. She just couldn't take it any more and stopped giving to all the usual causes. She makes no statement as to chicken vs egg. but thinks the $$s sent subsidizes this stuff and will no longer have any part of it. You do have to admit that the continuous double faced policy on continuing to take settlement lands smacks of post-kristellnacht in reverse (if you've farmed the same olive trees for years and overnight the bulldozers come....it's the same d_mn thing). Her family lost everything in that period.

I have always admired how direct and all business the Israeli military is, and how universal service welds the country together. I have always been dismayed at the special privelage being given to the ultraorthodox, who AFAICT contribute little to peace.

It is from here that WW-III will begin. For real.

But this is getting off of aviation....and I"m going to stop here.
 
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Bruce, I have a somewhat similar family histor a your wife it appears. I respectfully disagree with your assesment based upon a historical perspective how ever I also respect your desire to keep this post aviation related so I too will end here.

From an aviation perspective is seems as if the weapon that hit the naval ship may not have been a drone but a missle simlar to an exocet procured from Iran. Reports say a similar missle also hit a Egypitan Merchant ship.
 
Adam, Reuters says it was a silk - an Iranian missle. I expect the Israelis not only to not negotiate, but to evacuate their own and flatten the countryside. I never made command grade but this is what i'd do, in this situation. Sigh.
 
Bruce

You're wife has fallen victim to the arab propaganda and campaign of disinformation.

1. Peace agreements were signed with Arafat. Not a single one was respected by the Palestinians.

2. 90% of "Palestine" (a country that never EVER existed in the course of history as an independent state) was offered to the Palestinians on a silver platter in Camp David. Arafat didn't REALLY want peace - he wanted ALL the cake - including Israel. So he got cold feet and started the second Intifada in the year 2000 - forcing Israel to retaliate and re-enter the territories it had already given the Palestinians.

3. Practically speaking, the Palestinians put themselves in that situation. If they had accepted the UN resolution in 1947 - there would be no Palestinians refugees.
The Palestinians who elected to stay in Israel after 1948 enjoy from one of the highest living standards when compared to their brethren living in arab countries - as a bonus they also enjoy free healthcare and can vote and express themselves freely- something that doesn't exist in the arab world.

4. The settlements were built on land that was PURCHASED from the arabs for the most part. Nevertheless, 90% of the Israeli population (according to the latest polls) favor a total withdrawal of Israel from those settlements.
But still, tell me: why can arabs live and build houses wherever they want in Israel while Jews are forbidden to live in the West Bank - does it sound fair to you ?

5. In short - the Palestinians, by consistently refusing compromises and chosing terror as their only way of expression are the SOLE responsible for their misery. Their blood thirsty, fanatical and corrupt leaders do not care about the fate of their own people.
Arafat's wife, Suha, has an estimated 600 Million $ in the bank - she lives in Paris mind you and wears Cartier and Pierre Cardin designer's clothes...She couldn't care less about the Palestinians children.

6. For your information, Palestinians (who are our ennemies) are brought to Israeli hospitals on a daily basis for high-tech interventions (free of charge).

7. Freedom of movement in the West Bank ? well, if you elect to blow yourself up on a weekly basis for years, killing hundreds of Israelis, you must be prepared to face the consequences. Yes there will be checkpoints and roadblocks, yes there will be a fence.
We have a right and duty to defend ourselves.

8. Semi-Nazis you say ? I suggest you and your wife come over and visit the Yad Vashem museum in Jerusalem - you will surely get a better grasp of history and what nazism was all about.

9. Tell your wife that she can rest assured that our moral values are at least 1000 % higher than those of our ennemies...

10. Come to visit - I will personally take you to places and explain things from a different perspective. But perhaps we should let things calm down a bit first. I just cancelled a meeting in Haifa because around 20 rockets just hit the city...
 
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