Door Steward info sought

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

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Dave Taylor
Need the gouge on Door Stewards

A friend may install; C182.
I find these a little alarming. Where we are, the winds are going to yank these out eventually. Is that the doorpost they are attached to via holes and pop rivets? I am surprised they got approval to drill into the door post, so much. I have always figured door posts to be semisacred real estate. After they rip out, if they are not reinstalled, what can be done with the attach point with all its torn holes? New doorpost? Maybe TD has an opinion on this. Maybe I am worrying for nothing. Anyone have these? Do you tend to stand on or trip on these, entering/exiiting the a/c?
 
They work like a charm and I wouldn't have anything else.

The cylinders are springloaded to hold the door in the open position. If the wind catches the door as it swings open, the internal resistance in the cylinder simply slows the movement. The result is that the slow-moving door won't cause the Steward to bang against the stops and cause damage to the airframe or to the Steward.

Whatever trepidations anyone may have about these units should be at least doubled about the Mickey-Mouse system Cessna installed at the factory. If you're looking for something that will yank the guts out of a door and bend the exterior sheet metal panel, the OEM unit is a great place to find it, at least on the older airframes.


Let'sgoflying! said:
Need the gouge on Door Stewards

A friend may install; C182.
I find these a little alarming. Where we are, the winds are going to yank these out eventually. Is that the doorpost they are attached to via holes and pop rivets? I am surprised they got approval to drill into the door post, so much. I have always figured door posts to be semisacred real estate. After they rip out, if they are not reinstalled, what can be done with the attach point with all its torn holes? New doorpost? Maybe TD has an opinion on this. Maybe I am worrying for nothing. Anyone have these? Do you tend to stand on or trip on these, entering/exiiting the a/c?
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Wayne, that is reassuring.
Would you say my concerns are unfounded? I can see being marshalled on the ramp at say, Abilene during a duststorm and as rampies often do, they park you tail into the wind (?@&?), as soon as a pax opens the door, a 45kt gust rips this thing off the doorpost and you have ugly, unrepairable damage to a very expensive piece of airframe. (Im pretty sure there is no approved doorpost repair for Cessnas)
 
What Wayne said.

Dennis had one on his V35A, has one on his Baron. They are substantially better at protecting the door, in case of a wind gust, than anything the planes come with from the factory because (like the Minister of Crabby Comments said) the internal damping and resistance provided by the gas strut stops the door from ever achieving enough velocity to cause itself damage.

I don't know why I have not yet installed one, come to think of it...
 
There's probably a day or three in west Texas where the wind would tear the toilet paper roller out of a cast-iron ****house, so I can't say for sure that the airplane would survive such a wind. All I can tell you is that I fly to some of those places too, and no longer worry about the doors.

Bear in mind that the hydraulic pressure within the cylinder prevents any fast movement towards the open position, and the resistance remains constant as the door moves to the stop. You can close the door without resistance, but if you lose your grip half way, the cylinder won't allow the door to pop open, but only to continue moving at the bleed-off rate of the hydraulic pressure inside the unit.

I had received many good reports from the guys in the 180 club before I bought my first set several years ago (for the first airplane) and have since found them to be everything I'd hoped.

Let'sgoflying! said:
Thanks Wayne, that is reassuring.
Would you say my concerns are unfounded? I can see being marshalled on the ramp at say, Abilene during a duststorm and as rampies often do, they park you tail into the wind (?@&?), as soon as a pax opens the door, a 45kt gust rips this thing off the doorpost and you have ugly, unrepairable damage to a very expensive piece of airframe. (Im pretty sure there is no approved doorpost repair for Cessnas)
Click to expand...
 
Looks like its installed with low quality pull rivets? I have never seen those keep their set.
Otherwise, sounds good. Thanks.
 
The first plane is only 5 years into the installation so I can't say for sure how well they will hold up.

Let'sgoflying! said:
Looks like its installed with low quality pull rivets? I have never seen those keep their set.
Otherwise, sounds good. Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Would the rivets be prone to fail if subjected to shear only?
 
I haven't seen them fail outright but they work sideways (back and forth) and lose their shape and no longer fill the hole. Maybe these are a better quality aluminum however. Or steel.
 
I try to give my bird one upgrade each year at annual. Door Stewards were 3 or 4 years ago. Some of the best money I've spent on the plane. They're great. Notably:

They do NOT get in the way. I was concerned that they would because the photo in their ad makes it look like they do but they don't at all. At least in a 182 they don't because they lay flat against the door when it's open.

My mechanic installed them so that they catch at the exact same time that the stock catch does...thus they work in tandem. It's worth the extra effort and it involves positioning the bracket on the door in just the right spot.

I haven't had any issues whatsoever with anything loosening up or "wallowing out" and I flying 150 to 250 hours a year so this installation has at least 500 hours on it.

They're way too much money, just like everything else in aviation, but one grows numb to that after a few years of ownership. I just view everything else in life as cheap now. ;)
 
one of the easiest decisions in aviation; buy them
I've owned two planes and the door stewards were added the first week
and their customer service is excellent
 
timwinters said:
My mechanic installed them so that they catch at the exact same time that the stock catch does...thus they work in tandem. It's worth the extra effort and it involves positioning the bracket on the door in just the right spot.
Click to expand...

This seems to be a key point. If you don't keep the original door checks, the Stewards will not keep the door from hitting the strut. They will keep the door from hitting it at high speed, but it will still hit, because the bracket for the Steward isn't really that beefy and it will bend upward and outward if the steward pulls on it too hard when the door is at max open position..
 
Anybody have some old door stops they would like to sell with the door post attachment fittings?
 
Worrying about Door Stewards damaging your door frame is like standing on the deck of the Titanic and expressing concern about the safety of the lifeboats.

Just get in the damn boat, already. I promise you won't like the alternative.

C.
 
Atypicalguy said:
This seems to be a key point. If you don't keep the original door checks, the Stewards will not keep the door from hitting the strut.
Click to expand...

Not true. I have the OEM door stops removed, and the Door Stewards do not allow the doors to hit the struts.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Not true. I have the OEM door stops removed, and the Door Stewards do not allow the doors to hit the struts.
Click to expand...
They will as soon as a strong wind gusts hits the door when the strut is at full extension, because the bracket is flimsy and the mount point on the door post is very close to the hinge, so the door has about a 15:1 mechanical advantage trying to straighten a 90 degree bend in a very thin piece of steel. This moves the ball on the bracket outboard until the door hits the strut.
 

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Atypicalguy said:
They will as soon as a strong wind gusts hits the door when the strut is at full extension, because the bracket is flimsy and the mount point on the door post is very close to the hinge, so the door has about a 15:1 mechanical advantage trying to straighten a 90 degree bend in a very thin piece of steel. This moves the ball on the bracket outboard until the door hits the strut.
Click to expand...

I'm curious...have you tested this theory, or asked Mountain Aviation (the Door Steward manufacturer) if they've tested it?
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
I'm curious...have you tested this theory, or asked Mountain Aviation (the Door Steward manufacturer) if they've tested it?
Click to expand...
My friend I have them.on my airplane and that is what happened. I am adding the cessna door checks back. I am the third person in this thread to say the same thing.
 
On my 182, I have to slam the doors to lock them, on both sides. I know the correct answer is to have the doors or seals replaced. Will Door Stewards prevent me from getting a little momentum to slam the doors shut?
 
LesGawlik said:
On my 182, I have to slam the doors to lock them, on both sides. I know the correct answer is to have the doors or seals replaced. Will Door Stewards prevent me from getting a little momentum to slam the doors shut?
Click to expand...

I also have to slam my doors to get them to shut, and the Door Stewards do not cause any problems.

Truly, they are one of the best upgrades I've made to the plane. Those complaining about wind gusts should possibly reconsider their decisions to fly in such adverse conditions, but to each his own, I guess.
 
As previously stated by others, the bracket is not strong enough to be a door check, at least on a 185. Other bracket types for other airframes may be more robust, but my door checks are going back in - as also described in the manual - because the door steward brackets are not strong enough to do the job. Just look at the photo I posted - that thing is flimsy.
 
I have a door steward on both my MED and baggage door. Worth every penny. If there is enough wind to break them, then the OEM door devices would have broken as well.
 
Groundpounder said:
I have a door steward on both my MED and baggage door. Worth every penny. If there is enough wind to break them, then the OEM door devices would have broken as well.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. The OEM door stops/retainers were incredibly flimsy. The Door Stewards are much more robust.
 
Mxfarm said:
Do they effect ingress/egress @ all?
Click to expand...

A bit. I have size 13 feet, and I have to maneuver around the Door Stewards to get into the cabin. Very "do-able," but not as easy as without them.
 
Atypicalguy said:
As previously stated by others, the bracket is not strong enough to be a door check, at least on a 185. Other bracket types for other airframes may be more robust, but my door checks are going back in - as also described in the manual - because the door steward brackets are not strong enough to do the job. Just look at the photo I posted - that thing is flimsy.
Click to expand...

I kept my original Cessna door stops and added Door Stewards. The stock stops allowed strut contact because the door could twist. Adding Stewards controls the rate the door can open and the second stop location prevents twist. The combination works great. Neither stop is as good on its own. I remove a door for loading as often as not. I removed the lock rings from the Stewards and never used a cotter pin in the stock stops so door removal is very simple.
 
Running both is the smart move.
Stewartb said:
I kept my original Cessna door stops and added Door Stewards. The stock stops allowed strut contact because the door could twist. Adding Stewards controls the rate the door can open and the second stop location prevents twist. The combination works great. Neither stop is as good on its own. I remove a door for loading as often as not. I removed the lock rings from the Stewards and never used a cotter pin in the stock stops so door removal is very simple.
Click to expand...

Looking at the Bonanza doorframe attach bracket, there appears to be variation between bracket designs, as well as obvious differences between doors and strut configurations on different airframes. These differences may be causing some of the differences observed on this thread. We apparently have 182 guys, 180, 185, Bonanza and other planes represented. Clearly low wing planes will not have a strut contact issue. Two restraints is definitely going to keep the door from twisting better than a single one at the bottom of the door on my plane, and most flat door Cessnas. But strut contact may not be as much of an issue on a 182 for whatever reason, either door shape or strut attach points. The fuselage on a 182 is 4" wider, for instance. That alone will affect the strut geometry.
 
I installed them on my 170 and kept the original stop/catch at the top of the door. You can adjust where you put the gas cylinder bracket on the door and it will drive what the open position is. If you keep the factory stop then you have two items controlling the door if there is a gust and on a Cessna on is at the bottom (door steward) and the other is at the top (factory catch) so there is no excessive door twisting. If you don't keep the factory stop then where you put the bracket on the door will drive if the door will hit the strut or not. Keep in mind the door and brackets will flex.

On my 170 (taildragger) the Door Stewards are awesome because they keep the doors open even with the tail low. I would install them again in a heartbeat and I'm glad I kept the factory stop as well.
 
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