Door seals not worth it

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by Timbeck2, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    Public Service Announcement:

    I'm not going to badmouth the company as an answer is pending as to what they are going to do if anything. If nothing, all bets are off. :)

    Anyway if any of you are on the fence about purchasing an aircraft door fuselage mounted seal from the encrypted company name you may find in this sentence, do yourself a favor and rethink it. It is foam rubber I've only had mine installed for two months and already chunks in 5 different places have broken off and had to be re-glued with weatherstrip adhesive. The peel away adhesive on the seal is fine, the chunks have broken off leaving the adhesive firmly in place along with the other parts of the chunks. At $80 you are better off paying the $130 for the (regular) rubber door mounted seal which I will be forced to install now.
     
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  2. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think I broke the code!!!!!!!!

    also, the aviation isle at Lowe's/Home Depot has this stuff for much cheaper. or so I'm told. by other people.
     
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  3. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man Pattern Altitude

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    I ordered mine from Mcmaster Carr
     
  4. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    Which mount location did you use, door or fuselage? And do you remember the part number? Was it rubber or foam rubber? Paper or plastic?
     
  5. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man Pattern Altitude

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    I used Style E on my venture canopy. The foam is the best option as the rubber was too stiff. It has held up well for 3 years and counting. If you store your airplane in a private hangar it helps to leave the door open so that the seals don't take a set.

    https://www.mcmaster.com/#door-weatherstripping/=1e8oyhs
     
  6. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    I guess to clarify, there's foam rubber and then there's foam. The stuff I have is a higher density foam but not tough enough to withstand the normal wear and tear of getting in and out of an airplane.
     
  7. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man Pattern Altitude

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    EPDM foam rubber.
     
  8. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    I got my answer:

    "Be more careful"

    Don't buy door seals from Aircraft Door Seals which apparently has been bought by Knots to You whom I despise for another reason at another time.
     
  9. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    a HA!!! I knew it! I should be a freakin code decoderizer specialist, or whatever they're called.
     
  10. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach

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    Just get an RV already. All the door seals in the world won’t make a PA28 look good or fly faster. Do it!
     
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  11. DesertNomad

    DesertNomad Pattern Altitude

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    I have the Aircraft Door Seals one mounted on my Dakota fuselage and it has held up well. I am careful getting in and out but they last a couple years for me. The part that gets worn is the curved corner at the lower left.
     
  12. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer Pattern Altitude

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    I gave you a like based on your Enigma-level encryption alone. :D

    Sorry that the seals didn't work out.
     
  13. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    Sheese.... you can't get along with anyone, can ya...:lol::lol:
     
  14. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    Hate to be one of those Contrarian posters... but put Door Seal LLC in 182P over a year ago and 120 hours. It's a great product if you mount it to the door and not the frame. The product does need to be adhered correctly to the door. Old glue stripped 100% away and new 3M yellow weather strip adhesive applied as per directions.

    The product is ideal for older planes with door slightly out of square, as it compresses deeply for tight gaps and for larger gaps the loose end of the L shape form stops infiltration.

    If the product has to be re-glued, it's a 911 the wrong adhesive was used or applied incorrectly. 3 friends have used this product since after seeing how well it worked in my plane.
     
  15. aggie06

    aggie06 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    So in this case, it’s the actual seal, not the application. Maybe I’m reading this wrong?
     
  16. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    It is a peel and stick foam rubber. The adhesive works fine and out of the package the seal looks robust and firm. However and maybe its the heat out here but it ended up being more like the foam you'd have on a screen door and started breaking off in chunks. Along with the answer "be more careful" came the disclaimer, "this is the first time we've used this formulation on this seal." which means that those of you who have the older seals have a more durable seal which lasts longer. I bought my glareshield three years ago from Aircraft Door Seal and would recommend that product to anyone. Maybe since Knots to You owns the company (I'm assuming that since the answer came from them) that they've changed the line up of products.
     
  17. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    You're on the list pal. :skeptical:
     
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  18. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    Its code deoderizor specialist and yes I'd vote for ya. Thanks for the links, I bought a new seal today which is EPDM foam rubber that Grum.man suggested. It looks like rubber not foam so I think that it will be fine. I bought it at my local auto parts store. Couldn't think of an aircraft related name for O'Reilly's.
     
  19. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    The door seals from Door Seals LLC product is not peal and stick. Peal & stick is a terrible idea for an aircraft door frame. There is a foam product with a self adhesive backing fo the operative windows. If the surface is prepped correctly it sticks for years.
     
  20. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    The stuff I bought for Door Seals LLC is peel and stick. In the description of the product itself with a link provided:

    "...The seal is easy to install (with its own adhesive strip) and is FAA-PMA approved..."

    https://www.aircraftdoorseals.com/product/piper/pa-28/front-entry-door-seal-fuselage-installation-2/https://www.aircraftdoorseals.com/product/piper/pa-28/front-entry-door-seal-fuselage-installation-2/
     
  21. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    Yeah, Peal and stick is a bad idea for this product. I'd recommend their traditional glue on version. Thanks for sharing the negative performance of the peal & stick product.
     
  22. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    From the vendor's website:

    This seal is recommended for operators who have low utilization carrying few passengers.

    We also manufacture a door mounted seal P/N P-301-1 or -23. It is made from the same material and is shaped to fit the door. This seal, our latest design, has to be glued into place. It is recommended for high utilization carry many passengers and is designed to be less likely to become torn or damaged than the fuselage mounted seal.

    Translation: the frame mounted seal is easily damaged. The OP doesn't tell us why five chunks have been taken out of the seal, but I assume it was from mechanical damage.

    Is it really the fault of the vendor if the product is subjected to butts and shoes getting in and out of the aircraft?

    Since the door mounted seal is the same material, it should perform the task of sealing the opening the same as the frame mounted seal. Wouldn't the door mounted seal be a better choice?
     
  23. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    3393RP is right. This product rocks when its glued with 3M 8008 Yellow adhesive, that has the surface prepped properly (all old glue removed), and properly applied.
     
  24. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    Good ol' gorilla snot!
     
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  25. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    I never said that is was the fault of the vender, however as a manufacturer you'd have to be an idiot to think that it wouldn't be subjected to butts and shoes. I just said don't buy this seal. In order to fly a plane one must be able to get in and out of the plane and on a Cherokee there are limited places to grab in order to do so. I could see if this was a 5 year old seal but I've had it for two months. The material just doesn't hold up. The foam just isn't dense enough to hold up and is very fragile. I can't really explain the foam, it is more like..well, foam instead of the foam rubber seals you may have in your car or truck. When it came out of the package it was dense and almost moist when you touched it. In this Arizona heat it dried out and became much like the foam you'd see in a camera or gun case. You bump it, you tear it. Fuselage mounted foam gets bumped a lot, so this particular formulation doesn't work. I'd be very reluctant to put it on the door either at twice the price for the same inferior product. I've found another EPDM seal mentioned above that I will install Friday and that on the door.
     
  26. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    To be fair to the vendor, your initial post and title "Door seals not worth it" was vague and broad indictment of the company.

    if you said door seals on the airframe are not as durable as door seals on the door frame.... would have been accurate. The manufacturer states this themselves as other have pointed out.

    The resulting outcome is what the manufacturer predicted, and how you're mad at them for ignoring their admonition.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
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  27. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    The "vender" didn't make the product and I doubt the "vender" manufactures very little product, if any. I was unaware that the door seal I bought from Aircraft Door Seals on their website was sold by Knots to You until I got the "be more careful" reply to my email. My statement still stands regardless. They aren't worth it. Don't buy it, especially if you live in a hot arid climate. They don't hold up.

    You want to buy door seals that someone else has warned you about, be my guest.
     
  28. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    You make no sense. What are you talking about? Attack a part number and an application specifically. Your assertions are very vague and not sure if you're damning Knots2You or Door Seals LLC, or what specific product your not happy with, or all the above.

    Knots2You does manufacture a lot of their parts, I've seen the factory in Burlington Wi, and some they resell.

    Sounds like you're upset you bought the wrong product for your application. Doesn't mean these company(s) are out to rip people off with inferior products, which is what you are implying.
     
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  29. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    Ya know Dave, a few posts ago you said and I quote, "The door seals from Door Seals LLC product is not peal [SIC] and stick." And I provided information that proved you wrong.

    Now you seem to be defending the product which a few posts ago you knew nothing about. What's up with that? Are you just butt hurt that you were wrong? You also seem to be wrapped around the axle of peel and stick adhesive. I have no problem with the adhesive, that is still firmly attached to the plane. If your door seal has lasted over a year, then good for you, its obviously a different seal, either by formulation of the seal or aircraft. I didn't look at all the seals they sell for all aircraft as I wasn't looking for seals for different aircraft, I was looking for seals for mine.

    I'm not going to argue with you over my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  30. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    Like a politician you're deflecting. They issue is not the type of glue used.

    It's your buying the wrong product for the wrong application and vaguely condemning Knots2U and Door Seals LLC for the product not working as expected.
     
  31. CC268

    CC268 Final Approach

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  32. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    What is the wrong application Dave? An airplane? An airplane like the one in the advertiser's picture with a door seal installed on the fuselage? An airplane which happens to be just like mine on a website which sells door seals? That application? If it is the wrong application to install a door seal on the fuselage using a seal designed and advertised to be installed on a fuselage then I guess you're right. And who else shall I condemn for a product that doesn't work as advertised let alone expected?

    Also if you're referring to the description which states: (highlight my own)

    "This new door seal is a departure from the quarter round sponge rubber seal commonly used on Piper aircraft. The new seal is installed on the fuselage – not on the door frame – to provide a more substantial platform for sealing the flexible doors. The seal actually senses pressure from the door and molds itself to conform to the shape of the door. It provides an air- and water-tight seal like no other seal on the market. Never before could you appreciate how quiet your cabin can be. The seal is easy to install (with its own adhesive strip) and is FAA-PMA approved.This seal is recommended for operators who have low utilization carrying few passengers."

    That describes me to a tee but I guess it boils down to whose definition you use. I got burned on this one. I posted this in hopes that someone else doesn't make the same mistake I did. You want to disagree with me? Fine but it doesn't change the fact that this particular door seal is NOT the solution to a problem one may have on their own airplane.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
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  33. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    Installed yesterday on the door. VERY happy with the results.
     
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  34. Firstflight

    Firstflight Filing Flight Plan

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    Glad to hear that you have good results. I'll keep that in mind for the future. My fuselage mounted seal is original. I do know that it's recommended to coat the seal with silicone grease and wipe off the excess after it's been on for awhile. I definitely think that the seal is weakest along the bottom where people tend to drag their feet over it. I think it should actually be "glued" at that location. It does seal well though.
     
  35. 172andyou

    172andyou Line Up and Wait

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    Said the guy who has family who works for the vendor.
     
  36. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    Now it makes sense. ;)
     
  37. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    I have no affiliation with them other than a happy customer. The issue I had was people damning a company for using the product in a manner that company said was not recommended. They plainly state the product can be mounted to the door frame, but not recommended.
     
  38. bflynn

    bflynn En-Route

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    I think the condemnation was of the particular product and then the customer non-service, compounded by previous bad experience. Three strikes.
     
  39. Gary Austin

    Gary Austin Pre-Flight

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    When I clicked the first site, it shows the seal on the airframe @ $79.95, then scroll down to things you may like: click that and it's on the door @ $ 129.95, just something I noticed, I don't have a Piper product
     
  40. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    Not true. Even if they did state that, why would they sell something that isn't recommended?