Don't wanna blast through a blast pad!

spiderweb

spiderweb

Final Approach
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Ben
Zoom in and take a look at the beginnings here of runway 19.

http://maps.google.com/maps?z=14&q=40.7287778+-73.4134167&ll=40.7287778+-73.4134167&iwloc=near

Here is the airport diagram: http://download.aopa.org/ustprocs/current/NE-2/frg_airport_diagram.pdf

Correct me if I am wrong:

1) Very first part, with yellow chevrons indicates not suitable for takeoff, landing or maneuvering, EXCEPT,

2) There is a taxiway through this area (with hold short lines).

3) After the chevron area, there is a section before the displaced threshold (the part with the arrows). From the AIM, "The area before the displaced threshold is available for takeoffs (in either direction) and landings (from the opposite direction)."

4) The area after that is the threshold and runway proper, suitable for all ops.

Now, two questions:

1) If cleared by the tower, may I taxi on that taxiway that goes through the chevroned area, and
2) Would takeoffs be allowed from the area after that, but before the displaced threshold (the area with the arrows)? I know it is "suitable," but would the tower approve takeoff from that area, or is this a case-by-case situation?
 
Last edited:
spiderweb said:
Zoom in and take a look at the beginnings here of runway 19.

http://maps.google.com/maps?z=14&q=40.7287778+-73.4134167&ll=40.7287778+-73.4134167&iwloc=near

Here is the airport diagram: http://download.aopa.org/ustprocs/current/NE-2/frg_airport_diagram.pdf

Correct me if I am wrong:

1) Very first part, with yellow chevrons indicates not suitable for takeoff, landing or maneuvering, EXCEPT,

2) There is a taxiway through this area (with hold short lines).

3) After the chevron area, there is a section before the displaced threshold (the part with the arrows). From the AIM, "The area before the displaced threshold is available for takeoffs (in either direction) and landings (from the opposite direction)."

4) The area after that is the threshold and runway proper, suitable for all ops.

Now, two questions:

1) If cleared by the tower, may I taxi on that taxiway that goes through the chevroned area, and
2) Would takeoffs be allowed from the area after that, but before the displaced threshold (the area with the arrows)? I know it is "suitable," but would the tower approve takeoff from that area, or is this a case-by-case situation?
Click to expand...

1) You can do whatever you want, and probably have no ill come your way, but if you fail and something happens, you'll have one hell of a time trying to prove that you weren't acting "carelessly and recklessly."
2) Takeoffs would be allowed from the point of the single white arrows going forward. So yes, you can take off from the single white arrow area.
 
spiderweb said:
2) Would takeoffs be allowed from the area after that, but before the displaced threshold (the area with the arrows)? I know it is "suitable," but would the tower approve takeoff from that area, or is this a case-by-case situation?
Click to expand...
Yes, watch the Cub in 16 Right, he's flying before the threshold. In fact why wouldn't you use the full available length for take off?
 
Skylane81E said:
Yes, watch the Cub in 16 Right, he's flying before the threshold. In fact why wouldn't you use the full available length for take off?
Click to expand...

There may some good reasons. For example, that area may be EMAS. Wouldn't want to start my roll through that.

edit: Oh. You mean the suitable area, not the chevroned area. Nevermind.

There's no reason not to use it, its part of the runway.
 
Thanks! So, IOW, I am correct.

I have always used the portion after the chevrons and before the displaced threshold--but that has been in MD, PA, TX, etc. I lived in New York for six years, and sometimes they seem to abide by different rules. . . .
 
Chevroned areas are not safe for any operations. The taxiway through the chevroned area is a designated taxiway and appropriate for that purpose.

Displaced thresholds are usually because of obstructions on approach requiring the threshold be pushed back, so that clearance on approach can be maintained.
The arrowed area before the displaced threshold is usable runway, and should be used for takeoff. Why leave runway behind you?
 
And reading through comments on the AOPA airports section, I see that the current airport diagram is NOT accurate, due to ongoing construction.

So, same as ever--write down and readback everything from ATC, and verify if you're not sure.
 
PilotAlan said:
Chevroned areas are not safe for any operations. The taxiway through the chevroned area is a designated taxiway and appropriate for that purpose.
Click to expand...
I agree. Since the taxiway does not have the chevron lines running through it, that area is suitable for a taxiway. You could taxi on the taxiway as long as you don't wander off into the chevroned area. That is, barring any other NOTAM or information.
 
Everskyward said:
I agree. Since the taxiway does not have the chevron lines running through it, that area is suitable for a taxiway. You could taxi on the taxiway as long as you don't wander off into the chevroned area. That is, barring any other NOTAM or information.
Click to expand...

Bingo.

And in this case, you couldn't take Charlie or Bravo to Mike northbound, for example, and turn toward the chevroned area to take off on 19, even if you only taxied through the chevron area and didn't add takeoff power until B1. The correct course of action if you're cleared to take off from 19 "full length" would be to enter the runway at B1 and take off from there.

What I want to know is, what's up with the little taxiway-looking strip off A between A4 and A5 that has the dark circle, and another circle with an airplane sitting in it? :dunno:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Bingo.

... The correct course of action if you're cleared to take off from 19 "full length" would be to enter the runway at B1 and take off from there.
Click to expand...

If you want the full 5516' for takeoff, you'd start your takeoff at G7, where the chevrons end and the arrows begin. (although there appears to be a bit of a confusing discrepancy between the google map and the runway diagram.)

It's all pretty well spelled out in the AIM. That information is just as good in Texas as it is in New York.
 
Bobcat1 said:
If you want the full 5516' for takeoff, you'd start your takeoff at G7, where the chevrons end and the arrows begin. (although there appears to be a bit of a confusing discrepancy between the google map and the runway diagram.)
Click to expand...

Whoops - I didn't see the actual B1, I thought that B1 was the one on the opposite side of the runway from G7. It's not marked on the taxiway diagram.
 
Ben the chevroned area looks like its a grid of blocks which leads me to believe that its an EMAS area with a hard taxiway through the middle. Gary Mascelli is the resident EMAS expert perhaps he will know.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What I want to know is, what's up with the little taxiway-looking strip off A between A4 and A5 that has the dark circle, and another circle with an airplane sitting in it? :dunno:
Click to expand...

Helipad? There's a wind sock right by it.
 
xaminmo said:
Helipad? There's a wind sock right by it.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it have an H, or a cross, or something and not have an airplane parked nearby with its tail in that direction asking for control damage?

There's also nothing else around, no FBO or services or a hangar to put a chopper in... So I doubt it.
 
AdamZ said:
Ben the chevroned area looks like its a grid of blocks which leads me to believe that its an EMAS area with a hard taxiway through the middle.
Click to expand...

If that was an EMAS area, the airport diagram would tell you and the current diagram does not show any EMAS there and most likely the diagram is more current than the Google photo.

That area just looks like really old concrete.
 
You could be looking down at the roof of a "Flight Instructor's Chapel."

May have been a compass rose for calibrating back in the day when Seversky airplanes were manufactured at Farmingdale.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
...what's up with the little taxiway-looking strip off A between A4 and A5 that has the dark circle, and another circle with an airplane sitting in it? :dunno:
Click to expand...

Based on the shadows, that plane on the circle looks like it's off the ground :dunno:
It really looks like it's a plane on a stick....

I would guess that's an old location of a control tower, or a prior windsock circle.
 
OK, I'm stumped.
Here's a photo from 1950, none of that was there:
history1-med.jpg

1954, not there:
history2-med.jpg

Sometime after 1954, it's there but it's on a road connecting to a service road.
history3-med.jpg

1971 it's there, but you really can't make anything out.
history4-med.jpg

1981, mostly gone after the addition of the taxiways.
history5-med.jpg


I'm sticking with the 'lighted windsock' theory.
 
PilotAlan said:
OK, I'm stumped.
Here's a photo from 1950, none of that was there:
history1-med.jpg

1954, not there:
history2-med.jpg

Sometime after 1954, it's there but it's on a road connecting to a service road.
history3-med.jpg

1971 it's there, but you really can't make anything out.
history4-med.jpg

1981, mostly gone after the addition of the taxiways.
history5-med.jpg


I'm sticking with the 'lighted windsock' theory.
Click to expand...

wow, good research!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Bingo.
What I want to know is, what's up with the little taxiway-looking strip off A between A4 and A5 that has the dark circle, and another circle with an airplane sitting in it? :dunno:
Click to expand...

It's the compass rose. The airport authority occasionally tows airplanes there for long-time nonpayment of tiedown fees.
 
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