Does new endorsement reset review date?

[Exocetid]

Fellow pilots:

I had my review and then two months later received a complex endorsement. Does the endorsement count as a flight review, thus resetting the due date for the next one?

TIA

 

[rmciottijr]

No it needs to be a rating like you Instrument Rating, or Commercial Rating.

 

[Areeda]

Sorry but it does not, as far as I know. If you look at the wording of the flight review (61.56) it does not list this kind of endorsement as fulfilling the requirement.

Joe

 

[murphey]

This is a learning opportunity....14 CFR 61.56(d)

"passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner.... for a pilot certificate, rating or operating privilege need..."

So, is the complex endorsement an "operating privilege"?

 

[Exocetid]

No it needs to be a rating like you Instrument Rating, or Commercial Rating.

Thanks, I thought as much. Just would have bought me two months anyway. On the other hand, I am close to getting my IFR

 

[bbchien]

You could have arranged the complex endorsement to also be re-endorsed for BFR, if the ground insturctional time fit the statutory requriements. However, it would have to have been signed off as such.

 

[nosehair]

So, is the complex endorsement an "operating privilege"?

No, that's what they call 'ratings' on a Sport Pilot Certificate.

 

[poadeleted20]

This is a learning opportunity....14 CFR 61.56(d)

"passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner.... for a pilot certificate, rating or operating privilege need..."

So, is the complex endorsement an "operating privilege"?

Yes, but it only counts for flight review currency if given by a designated examiner signing as such, not just a flight instructor.

 

[poadeleted20]

No, that's what they call 'ratings' on a Sport Pilot Certificate.

While they do call those "privileges" in comparison to "ratings" for other pilot certificate levels, in this context, they are speaking to other "operating privileges," such as a warbird letter of authorization, a Part 135 check, or a 61.58 PIC check.

 

[Exocetid]

I had a chat with the Houston FSDO about this. In this instance, even though a complex endorsement does yield an operating privilege, the regulation is referring to annual reviews of pilots, such as those under part 135 or the annual reviews that military pilots undergo. As such, since they are being reviewed annually in order to maintain their operating privileges, the FAA sees no reason to review them bi-annually as with the rest of us.

When I asked why the complex endorsement, which included all sorts of flying, landings, etc. (my complex endorsement was a result of my "How to fly a Mooney" training), couldn't also count as a FR, the explanation was understandable. It could have as long as the curriculum for the endorsement also included that for the FR.

If I had thought about it at the time I could have asked the CFI I spent ten hours with to just include an FR, but c'est la vie, I was really having too much fun learning to tame an airplane that still flies me more than I do it!

 

[rottydaddy]

If I had thought about it at the time I could have asked the CFI I spent ten hours with to just include an FR, but c'est la vie, I was really having too much fun learning to tame an airplane that still flies me more than I do it!

More review never killed anybody... but it's worth remembering for next time. If you're going to spend that much time taking dual, you may as well make it a FR. You could add the FR onto a session of instruction intended for just about any other purpose...although, again, it's only an "automatic" FR for ratings, not endorsements.

It worked out very well for me doing my tailwheel add-on... that airplane had minimal performance and minimal equipment, but the briefing/debriefings, pattern work, air work, and old-fashioned nav work made me "legal" to fly faster airplanes with more complex systems. I hardly noticed the FR, but we got all the points covered.

That 11 hours of dual seemed more like a FR to me than the "automatic" FR that goes with completion of the PP-Glider rating... even more different from all the aircraft I have most of my hours in, and I have yet to land anywhere other than "home plate" in a glider. I had made many flights in that glider before getting around to the check ride, and for a power-plane guy, a lot of the flying was like starting all over again, but it's just so different.
Felt like I was cheating or something... even though I had to be prepared to be quizzed on anything relevant to my PPASEL (the "gotcha" for PPASEL holders adding on the PPG).

But unless you've been away from flying for a long time (as was the case for me before the FR prior to my "tailwheel FR"), I see no harm in "taking advantage" of this rule... like any first-rating check ride, what's being observed (and fine-tuned) more than anything is one's ability to command... it's about the basics, not specifics.

 

[Exocetid]

More review never killed anybody... but it's worth remembering for next time. If you're going to spend that much time taking dual, you may as well make it a FR. You could add the FR onto a session of instruction intended for just about any other purpose...although, again, it's only an "automatic" FR for ratings, not endorsements.

The reality is that my FR was the end of a ten hour currency training as I had been out of flying for twenty years. Shortly after, I bought my Mooney and did the Complex as part of my ten hour insurance sentence. Frankly, I could not agree more that review and dual never killed anybody (please, no pundits jumping in about a student and a CFI crashing during training!). I saw this discussion as an academic exercise because it seemed to me that if you went through all the hoops, which I did during the complex, that you should get an FR as a consolation prize. You do if you work it with the CFI to do both.

I now see the wisdom of the FAA (gasp!!!!) in knowing that every situation is different. I could see the owner of a 172, with hundreds of hours under his belt, finally realizing the dream and getting a Mooney. That guy would not need anywhere near the training I did to learn the complex aspects of the Mooney--and this is where the key to understanding the CFR is. The complex endorsement does not have a time requirement--that is up to the CFI who gives it to you. It also does not have a very specific syllabus. I guarantee you that if you can operate the flaps in a C172, you will transition quite quickly to the flaps in an Mooney--so that part may take all of a few minutes. The endorsement just requires that you be found proficient in the operation and systems of the airplane. Says nothing about the myriad of specific demonstrable skills needed for the FR.

Anyway, the discussion has been both useful and educational.

 

[Dean]

If you you are going to pay for instructor time to get an endorsement, why not make it a FR and reset the clock, its going to save you money in the long run. Thats what I did when I got my HP endorsement. Now I am going to add TW, the insurance company requires 10 hrs dual before solo, so might as well get the FR done at the same time.

 

[Exocetid]

If you you are going to pay for instructor time to get an endorsement, why not make it a FR and reset the clock, its going to save you money in the long run. Thats what I did when I got my HP endorsement. Now I am going to add TW, the insurance company requires 10 hrs dual before solo, so might as well get the FR done at the same time.

Looking back on it, I am glad I didn't cloud the issue with an FR along with the complex endorsement and familiarization training. It was only two months difference anyway and I will be doing my IFR check ride just before my next FR so it really doesn't matter. Again, each situation is different.