Does Anyone Read Online Job Applications?

ebykowsky

ebykowsky

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I'm in the process of applying for internships right now, and whenever I can talk to an HR rep from a company directly, the discussion generally goes very well, and they're pretty impressed with me as a candidate. However, I'll apply to jobs online that I'm far more qualified for and have more of a desire to land, but never get so much as a first interview.

Can anyone out there in HR shine some light on what goes on in the process? Do all the applications get read (or even skimmed), am I getting popped out by a computer, or is there just so much sheer applicant volume that it's tough to get a first look?

Also, any search tips would be appreciated.

Oh, and if anyone owns/works for a company that needs a top-notch marketing or finance summer intern, I'm on the market!
 
The short answer is - eventually it gets to a human.

There are canned algorithms that most HR places use that will weed out the non-quals from the qual candidates. Getting through the filter algorithm to a live human is one of life's great mysteries.

What's more important is that HR is a place where jobs go to die. Their function is actually to eliminate the task of hiring qualified candidates. Do everything possible to avoid interaction with HR, and your career will be improved by many-fold.
 
Usually, it's just easy for the HR screener to just press next. Sometimes if the resume merits forwarding to the actual hiring person you'll get an email back. The only productive (i.e., led to interview) ones I have had have either been greased by a head hunter (they are out there watching the linked in profiles) or ones where I have followed up by sending more personal correspondence to the company. Sometimes you have to do some digging to find a email address or postal address of a decision maker.
 
Boy, I could write a book about this, but on-line job applications are the opiate of the job-seeker (with apologies to Marx, or whoever it was).

One problem could be explained by changing your title a little:
"Does anyone READ online job ADVERTISEMENTS"?
When I post a job for a veterinary technician I post specific requirements and experience requiremens. For exmaple; being able to draw blood from a geriatric cat or being able to intubate a kitten or being able to place an IV Catheter in an arresting cat.

With this ad I will get hundreds of responses from all over the country. They will invariablyl say "I have grown up with cats and really love cats and would love to move to Florida and this would be my IDEAL job".

I throw those in the round file.

And I will get applications from licensed veterinarians saying they can't find a real job and they would be a great technician. Those go in the round file too. Hiring an "overqualified" person is worse than hiring under qualified. at least you can train an under qualified person but an overqualified person will never be happy for more than a week with the salary and will leave at the first good offer for their skill level. Unless they are completely undesirable in which case I don't want them. The only expception would be if I really only needed someone for a short time, like to fill in for a tech on pregnancy leave.

Typos, incomplete sentences, hobbies I don't like, along with a hundred other nuances cause me to put them in the round file. If I don't think they read the ad or did ANY research on my company: ROUND FILE!

I have told hundreds of people this and the few that listened usually find a job. Forget looking for advertised positions. The good ones are not advertised. If I have a halfway qualified person walk in and present them self in a professional manner, they will get 100 time the attention of a resume submitted among hundreds of other resumes and I will often hire someone like that even if I wasn't really planning to hire anyone right now.

And if the person happens to be referred to me by someone I respect, then the attention and consideration they get climbs even higher.

I can't stand people that sit around all day staring at the computer and wondering why a job doesn't jump out at them (I am not saying this is YOU, but it is part of my rant).

NETWORK.
Look up companies you would like to work for and research them. Then go visit them and KNOW who to ask for when you walk in the door. Drop names or the receptionists (gatekeepers) wills screen you out like a bug.
Always dress one level above the standard for the job you are applying for.

And here is a big one: NEVER BE RUDE OR DISRESPECTFUL TO THE RECEPTIONIST or you will NEVER get past them.

I wish you luck on your search. There are jobs out there but anonymous resumes sent to HR by the thousands in response to an ad are NOT the way to find them. Often those ads are just a way to find out what the current market looks like. If they get NO responses, they give their current employees a raise. If they get a lot, then few raises are to be handed out.





ebykowsky said:
I'm in the process of applying for internships right now, and whenever I can talk to an HR rep from a company directly, the discussion generally goes very well, and they're pretty impressed with me as a candidate. However, I'll apply to jobs online that I'm far more qualified for and have more of a desire to land, but never get so much as a first interview.

Can anyone out there in HR shine some light on what goes on in the process? Do all the applications get read (or even skimmed), am I getting popped out by a computer, or is there just so much sheer applicant volume that it's tough to get a first look?

Also, any search tips would be appreciated.

Oh, and if anyone owns/works for a company that needs a top-notch marketing or finance summer intern, I'm on the market!
Click to expand...
 
JOhnH said:
Boy, I could write a book about this, but on-line job applications are the opiate of the job-seeker (with apologies to Marx, or whoever it was).

One problem could be explained by changing your title a little:
"Does anyone READ online job ADVERTISEMENTS"?
When I post a job for a veterinary technician I post specific requirements and experience requiremens. For exmaple; being able to draw blood from a geriatric cat or being able to intubate a kitten or being able to place an IV Catheter in an arresting cat.

With this ad I will get hundreds of responses from all over the country. They will invariablyl say "I have grown up with cats and really love cats and would love to move to Florida and this would be my IDEAL job".

I throw those in the round file.

And I will get applications from licensed veterinarians saying they can't find a real job and they would be a great technician. Those go in the round file too. Hiring an "overqualified" person is worse than hiring under qualified. at least you can train an under qualified person but an overqualified person will never be happy for more than a week with the salary and will leave at the first good offer for their skill level. Unless they are completely undesirable in which case I don't want them. The only expception would be if I really only needed someone for a short time, like to fill in for a tech on pregnancy leave.

Typos, incomplete sentences, hobbies I don't like, along with a hundred other nuances cause me to put them in the round file. If I don't think they read the ad or did ANY research on my company: ROUND FILE!

I have told hundreds of people this and the few that listened usually find a job. Forget looking for advertised positions. The good ones are not advertised. If I have a halfway qualified person walk in and present them self in a professional manner, they will get 100 time the attention of a resume submitted among hundreds of other resumes and I will often hire someone like that even if I wasn't really planning to hire anyone right now.

And if the person happens to be referred to me by someone I respect, then the attention and consideration they get climbs even higher.

I can't stand people that sit around all day staring at the computer and wondering why a job doesn't jump out at them (I am not saying this is YOU, but it is part of my rant).

NETWORK.
Look up companies you would like to work for and research them. Then go visit them and KNOW who to ask for when you walk in the door. Drop names or the receptionists (gatekeepers) wills screen you out like a bug.
Always dress one level above the standard for the job you are applying for.

And here is a big one: NEVER BE RUDE OR DISRESPECTFUL TO THE RECEPTIONIST or you will NEVER get past them.

I wish you luck on your search. There are jobs out there but anonymous resumes sent to HR by the thousands in response to an ad are NOT the way to find them. Often those ads are just a way to find out what the current market looks like. If they get NO responses, they give their current employees a raise. If they get a lot, then few raises are to be handed out.
Click to expand...

Good reply; I've been transitioning my search almost entirely away from online apps and going for the personal contacts when possible now. Even if I don't get a hit, it still feels like I'm getting somewhere.
 
ebykowsky said:
Good reply; I've been transitioning my search almost entirely away from online apps and going for the personal contacts when possible now. Even if I don't get a hit, it still feels like I'm getting somewhere.
Click to expand...
Good for you, and thanks for not getting mad at me. The rant I posted is the same one I give anyone that asks my opinion about job hunting.

But looking over what I wrote, if that was an example from someone applying to me for a job, it would go in the round file immediately, even if I agree 100% with everything stated. There are just too many typos (ie, more than 1). Carelessness is not something I desire in an employee even if I do the same thing when I am typing on an internet forum when I am running late for work. And I do search the internet to find out all I an about a prospective employee. So make sure your social networking (if you have any) is professional as well.

And again, best of luck,
and while I am at it, what kind of work do you do and what geographic location are you interested in? Perhaps someone on this forum might generate a lead for you. (Sorry if everyone else on this board already knows. I am not very good at keeping track of that stuff).
 
JOhnH said:
And again, best of luck,
and while I am at it, what kind of work do you do and what geographic location are you interested in? Perhaps someone on this forum might generate a lead for you. (Sorry if everyone else on this board already knows. I am not very good at keeping track of that stuff).
Click to expand...

Geographic region really isn't an issue for me; I plan on going wherever work takes me (especially since it's only a summer internship). I'm a rising junior marketing/finance major at Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh, but am originally from SC. Ultimately, I'd like to do something either in the aerospace industry or in consumer products marketing. That said, right now, I'm open to just about anything business related; it's good to explore all the opportunities available.
 
And as you have now seen, let everyone in your social network know that you are looking! (I sent him a PM and have just emailed him a list of seven internships we are recruiting for right now.)

I am also a bit of a diesel head and recruited one of the guys that I knew online to come work for the company I was at. I knew he was in Orlando and that we just had a junior IT guy resign from the Orlando office. He posted a note about graduating with an IT degree. We never even posted the position. He interviewed and was hired. He graduated in early June of 2013 and started on 1 August 2013. It was a little slow, but we got him. He got a good job that was not even showing in the public market. I got a nice bonus.

NETWORKING is THE way to get a job.

Jim
 
Good testimony. If the guy had waited for the job to be advertised, his resume would have been competing with hundreds of others.

Kiddo's Driver said:
And as you have now seen, let everyone in your social network know that you are looking! (I sent him a PM and have just emailed him a list of seven internships we are recruiting for right now.)

I am also a bit of a diesel head and recruited one of the guys that I knew online to come work for the company I was at. I knew he was in Orlando and that we just had a junior IT guy resign from the Orlando office. He posted a note about graduating with an IT degree. We never even posted the position. He interviewed and was hired. He graduated in early June of 2013 and started on 1 August 2013. It was a little slow, but we got him. He got a good job that was not even showing in the public market. I got a nice bonus.

NETWORKING is THE way to get a job.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
Online is a black hole. Nothing more than cost savings for a company that sees employees as a dime a dozen. Personal networking is the way 90% of jobs are filled. I could write a book.....

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
 
wsuffa said:
Online is a black hole. Nothing more than cost savings for a company that sees employees as a dime a dozen. Personal networking is the way 90% of jobs are filled. I could write a book.....

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That's exactly right. Online applications are pretty uncommon in my field but my personal take is that if there is an online application for the job, I probably don't want it anyway so I won't waste my time.

Now this is different than sending a PDF resume electronically to the right person or hiring department. People do that all the time to our company and they will get at least a callback, or an interview if there is a need and a fit, and they have done a professional job on their resume.
 
I've heard back before from flying jobs I applied for online, and I usually got a reply.

Problem was it was usually such a crappy job I didn't want it.
 
I was hired for my current job from an online ad on Monster. It was a highly technical, and very tightly focused advert, and my resume and app were also tight and well focused. I hit all the dingers in the online app and after 3 weeks, had a contact.

The funny thing is, when I got the first call from the company, I was talking directly to the hiring mgr. She asked me what my start date was, and I told her I wouldn't mind being interviewed first. She got my contact info from the recruiter who never contacted me at all, and she assumed the recruiter did all his up front work. He did not get his commish on my hire. So sad....
 
JOhnH said:
Hiring an "overqualified" person is worse than hiring under qualified. at least you can train an under qualified person but an overqualified person will never be happy for more than a week with the salary and will leave at the first good offer for their skill level.
Click to expand...
This is more than a little concerning. I considered the possibilities and it appears that the only way to break through is brazen fraud. The same reasoning is fictionalized in this series of comic strips:

http://trenchescomic.com/comic/post/9811
http://trenchescomic.com/comic/post/once-more-unto-the-trench
http://trenchescomic.com/comic/post/subterfuge
etc.

Unfortunately for me, my track record is embedded into millions and millions of computing devices, not to mention special websites dedicated to tracking it (like Ohloh and Github).
 
ebykowsky said:
I'm in the process of applying for internships right now, and whenever I can talk to an HR rep from a company directly, the discussion generally goes very well, and they're pretty impressed with me as a candidate. However, I'll apply to jobs online that I'm far more qualified for and have more of a desire to land, but never get so much as a first interview.

Can anyone out there in HR shine some light on what goes on in the process? Do all the applications get read (or even skimmed), am I getting popped out by a computer, or is there just so much sheer applicant volume that it's tough to get a first look?

Also, any search tips would be appreciated.

Oh, and if anyone owns/works for a company that needs a top-notch marketing or finance summer intern, I'm on the market!
Click to expand...

Summer internships are probably tough to get right now, I don't think we hire any and our intern hiring season is over.
 
Resumes from people with hobbies you don't like go int he round file? Why is that?




JOhnH said:
Boy, I could write a book about this, but on-line job applications are the opiate of the job-seeker (with apologies to Marx, or whoever it was).

One problem could be explained by changing your title a little:
"Does anyone READ online job ADVERTISEMENTS"?
When I post a job for a veterinary technician I post specific requirements and experience requiremens. For exmaple; being able to draw blood from a geriatric cat or being able to intubate a kitten or being able to place an IV Catheter in an arresting cat.

With this ad I will get hundreds of responses from all over the country. They will invariablyl say "I have grown up with cats and really love cats and would love to move to Florida and this would be my IDEAL job".

I throw those in the round file.

And I will get applications from licensed veterinarians saying they can't find a real job and they would be a great technician. Those go in the round file too. Hiring an "overqualified" person is worse than hiring under qualified. at least you can train an under qualified person but an overqualified person will never be happy for more than a week with the salary and will leave at the first good offer for their skill level. Unless they are completely undesirable in which case I don't want them. The only expception would be if I really only needed someone for a short time, like to fill in for a tech on pregnancy leave.

Typos, incomplete sentences, hobbies I don't like, along with a hundred other nuances cause me to put them in the round file. If I don't think they read the ad or did ANY research on my company: ROUND FILE!

I have told hundreds of people this and the few that listened usually find a job. Forget looking for advertised positions. The good ones are not advertised. If I have a halfway qualified person walk in and present them self in a professional manner, they will get 100 time the attention of a resume submitted among hundreds of other resumes and I will often hire someone like that even if I wasn't really planning to hire anyone right now.

And if the person happens to be referred to me by someone I respect, then the attention and consideration they get climbs even higher.

I can't stand people that sit around all day staring at the computer and wondering why a job doesn't jump out at them (I am not saying this is YOU, but it is part of my rant).

NETWORK.
Look up companies you would like to work for and research them. Then go visit them and KNOW who to ask for when you walk in the door. Drop names or the receptionists (gatekeepers) wills screen you out like a bug.
Always dress one level above the standard for the job you are applying for.

And here is a big one: NEVER BE RUDE OR DISRESPECTFUL TO THE RECEPTIONIST or you will NEVER get past them.

I wish you luck on your search. There are jobs out there but anonymous resumes sent to HR by the thousands in response to an ad are NOT the way to find them. Often those ads are just a way to find out what the current market looks like. If they get NO responses, they give their current employees a raise. If they get a lot, then few raises are to be handed out.
Click to expand...
 
It's the HR mindset. Lots of applications, gotta prune the stack somehow.

But networking works so much better. If you're the cousin's gardner's son, who flies planes and you happen to hear about him looking for a job on POA, then you're the perfect person for the job!

us AAirways said:
Resumes from people with hobbies you don't like go int he round file? Why is that?
Click to expand...
 
I got my current job by sending an online application.

I did have 4-5 years as cognizant engineer for TCAS and transponder systems and X years of experience as an avionics engineer and prev A&P background.

Present company had their TCAS and XPDR guy move on, and the manager was desperate for anyone that could walk in and get started on various projects with regulatory deadlines.

I was invited down, had lunch, received an offer and accepted.

The company I was leaving (Delta) made the long awaited pay cut announcement that everyone was going to loose 10%, I was able to resign the next day and step into a 40% raise at the new airline.

Keep at it.
 
I hire a lot of engineers and techs, and there are a huge pile of online applications that I completely ignore - because I have more than enough live warm bodies in my office that get my attention first. I figure if they have taken the time to get up, clean up, dress up, and show up, I will give them first run at the job over those that just type it up.

If you're serious, then act like it. You get what you earn.
 
us AAirways said:
Resumes from people with hobbies you don't like go int he round file? Why is that?
Click to expand...

"Smoking Crack"

"Voting Democrat"

"Hot-dog eating contests"

"Roadie"

"Civil Air Patrol"

"Flying a Low Wing"

"EAA"

(note - the above were meant to be amusing only. Please do not take them seriously.)

In all seriousness, I know of companies that won't hire smokers, even if they only smoke at home. Completely legal, and in a certain sense understandable.

airguy said:
I hire a lot of engineers and techs, and there are a huge pile of online applications that I completely ignore - because I have more than enough live warm bodies in my office that get my attention first. I figure if they have taken the time to get up, clean up, dress up, and show up, I will give them first run at the job over those that just type it up.

If you're serious, then act like it. You get what you earn.
Click to expand...

Big companies don't allow this. The fortune 500 company I'm working with, for example, requires all applications to be vetted from an online application pool by HR first. The managers then decide to completely ignore HR's recommendations and pull a candidate from the rejected pile for any silly reason =P
 
noobJohn said:
It's the HR mindset. Lots of applications, gotta prune the stack somehow.

But networking works so much better. If you're the cousin's gardner's son, who flies planes and you happen to hear about him looking for a job on POA, then you're the perfect person for the job!
Click to expand...
It depends on how many resumes I receive. If I receive a couple of hundred resumes, why should I spend time on one that doesn't excite me. Now if I go through all the resumes and throw them all out I will go through them again a little less ruthlessly.
 
If you really want a job, all you have to do is convince the company that you want to work for them. Show up in person, dress like you are seriously looking for a job. Learn all you can about the company before you show up.

Have your ducks lined up with knowledge about the job and copies of your assorted degrees or qualifications that would be needed to do it.

You have to convince them that working there is all you ever wanted to do.

Never ask about salary or benefits on the first interview, that is something that should be brought up at the time you have been accepted for the position.

Keep going back, at least once a week, just to say hi if nothing else. Convince them they have a great company and you want to be part of it.

You will end up with a job there.

When you get it, give it your all and then some. Convince them they were lucky to get you, not by words, but by deeds.

If you love what your doing, it will show. The rewards will follow.


-John
 
Show up unannounced looking for a job?? Ask to speak to so and so??? I doubt they will talk to you. " Oh they are in a meeting..." If they did, they will tell you to apply online. Might work at a very small company, but not at a big one.


John Baker said:
If you really want a job, all you have to do is convince the company that you want to work for them. Show up in person, dress like you are seriously looking for a job. Learn all you can about the company before you show up.

Have your ducks lined up with knowledge about the job and copies of your assorted degrees or qualifications that would be needed to do it.

You have to convince them that working there is all you ever wanted to do.

Never ask about salary or benefits on the first interview, that is something that should be brought up at the time you have been accepted for the position.

Keep going back, at least once a week, just to say hi if nothing else. Convince them they have a great company and you want to be part of it.

You will end up with a job there.

When you get it, give it your all and then some. Convince them they were lucky to get you, not by words, but by deeds.

If you love what your doing, it will show. The rewards will follow.


-John
Click to expand...
 
In some jurisdictions, it's illegal to discard any job application, online or otherwise. In some places, this is true even if the online submission is obviously spam from someone trying to sell you peniphernalia. The applications can be screened, filtered, subjected to all manner of algorithmic indignities, and ultimately sorted into their own little boxes depending on the results; but in many places, they can't be automatically discarded.

Of course, that doesn't mean that a human being actually has to read them. It just means that they can't be automagically black-holed and deleted. They have to sit on the (hopefully secure) server for x-amount of time -- six months seems a common period -- before they can be discarded.

-Rich
 
Data point: As of last week I had submitted 3 online applications for teaching positions (there aren't a lot of college level teaching positions open in my field right now), and made the short list at one uni. This week I learned I'd made the short list at a community college too. 2 for 3 isn't bad (I was too late for the third). I'm still a long way from having a job next year, but it's clearly a counterexample to the thesis in the OP.
 
RJM62 said:
In some jurisdictions, it's illegal to discard any job application, online or otherwise. In some places, this is true even if the online submission is obviously spam from someone trying to sell you peniphernalia. The applications can be screened, filtered, subjected to all manner of algorithmic indignities, and ultimately sorted into their own little boxes depending on the results; but in many places, they can't be automatically discarded.

Of course, that doesn't mean that a human being actually has to read them. It just means that they can't be automagically black-holed and deleted. They have to sit on the (hopefully secure) server for x-amount of time -- six months seems a common period -- before they can be discarded.

-Rich
Click to expand...

Heh... Naivete is so cute...

Yeah, I know that's the way it's SUPPOSED to happen - but I've been in the corporate world long enough to know better.
 
I've been on both sides of this, as a hiring manager with and without an HR department, and as an applicant. I see some serious and growing issues with the hiring process.

I am constantly amazed at rigid requirements for knowledge of a specific piece of software. If a candidate had everything else I was looking for, and had a history of effective adoption and use of other industry-specific software, why would I reject him over lack of a skill he has demonstrated he will quickly acquire on the job?

I recently attended a resume workshop in which we were taught effective formatting and content strategies. We were also told that at some large companies and recruitment/temp agencies, automated screening of incoming resumes for keywords rejects as many as 80% of applicants without ever showing their resumes to a human. This turns writing a resume into more of an SEO-style exercise than creating an accurate portrayal of your skills, but I'm looking for tech-oriented openings which are often done through agencies, so I feel I have to play. Since I incorporated what I learned about resume creation in the workshop, my callback rate is up sharply.

This term, "overqualified," is probably often a euphemism for "too old" which, of course, they can't legally say to you without repercussion. But even if it's real, given the rate at which entire industries will be made obsolete by technical advances in coming years, I see a risk of many middle-agers being displaced and needing to reboot their careers, then struggling because of qualifications which look impressive but are no longer marketable.

I'm smirking over this part - If hiring "overqualified" people for dead-end jobs is seen as a retention risk, isn't hiring only workers who've proven they can write effective resumes and land interviews just as big a risk?
 
ChrisK said:
Big companies don't allow this. The fortune 500 company I'm working with, for example, requires all applications to be vetted from an online application pool by HR first. The managers then decide to completely ignore HR's recommendations and pull a candidate from the rejected pile for any silly reason =P
Click to expand...

Which at some companies will put them at risk unless they had an articulable reason for passing over the "more qualified" ones.
 
John Baker said:
If you love what your doing, it will show. The rewards will follow.
Click to expand...


I think you were good right up until here. "Love what you do" is a fallacy in a great many jobs. Often called "passion" these days, like work was supposed to be a Harlequin romance novel or something.

Mike Rowe has talked about this intelligently and at length after spending years as a sort of one day apprentice at a great many jobs on his show.

Tons of jobs are required in society that no one, or very few, people who do them are going to love doing.

Take my trash guy... He runs a tiny trash company. Tossing trash in trucks isn't his passion at all. Running his own business so he can make his own way, is one. Rebuilding his replica military Jeep (complete with 50 cal... I might add!) is another one of his passions.

He works to live. He doesn't live to work. When the day is over he doesn't sit around thinking up new ways to drive and load garbage trucks. He does however, offer trash services to various functions in the area at free or reduced cost on his days off. He's active in the community.

But the job isn't his passion. And there's a LOT of jobs in our society like that.

Most folks doing them are relatively happy. Punch out at 5, work is forgotten. Save more of the paycheck than you earn. Don't play the debt game. Etc.

See Mike Rowe's TED speech for better explanation and his example from one of his show tapings.
 
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