Does anyone look out the damn window?

E

EminiTrader

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Emini Trader
I've been so damn busy the past few weeks I hadn't any flying time. I have a trip planned with family tomorrow so I figured I'd grab a couple hours and practice turns, short field landing, stalls, the whole 9.

I go down to Palatka (28J) and it's slammed with planes doing pattern work. It's going along pretty well. Now generally I find that in a SR22 I'm typically the fastest in the pattern. So I am very aware of where everyone is, and try to slow down if needed as not to cut anyone off or interfere with anyone. Typically I'll extend downwind to add spacing.

So I turn downwind and I hear another guy calling "45 to downwind",. I see him and tell him I've got him and I'm going to extend downwind to give him some space. He turns base, I go another 30 seconds and I turn base.

He's on short final, I make two radio calls "turning final #2" then "1 mile final".. Then over on a base leg I can see in front on me (cause I extended a bit) another airplane - I call out to him- nothing... guy cuts me right off- They had parachute ops going on so all I could really do is climb out above or I risked hitting parachutes.

Damn..

Ok so I leave for Cedar Key to do some short field work. And there is a TON of GA traffic today. I generally stay with approach at least to listen and tune in 121.5 or the CTAF of where I'm going. I did NOT get a squak code as I was planning on doing steep turns and such.

I see traffic on the G1000 and on foreflight - 4 or 5 planes pretty close. Too close for my comfort. My head is on a damn swivel.

So then I spot a plane that was probably a little higher than I - but basically coming straight at me. Close as I'd ever been to any other aircraft in the air.... I had my eye on him and I waited a few seconds to see what he was going to do. I'm convinced he never saw me. I did a hard right turn/dive to get away from him then said to hell with this and climbed up to 7500 to do my stalls and turns.

So two somewhat close calls in 15 minutes.... Keep your eyes outside guys! I love the G1000, foreflight, and all that too - but outside is where it is!

Sorry - just had to vent.
 
Well good to see people are out flying and at least your see and avoid skill are working when others aren't.
 
oregonboy109 said:
Well good to see people are out flying and at least your see and avoid skill are working when others aren't.
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I definitely use the traffic on FF and Garmin to get an overview, but whenever I see anything remotely in my area I use my damn eyes :) - I can't help but remember that helicopter and Cirrus accident last year.....
 
G1000 - negative
Foreflight - negative
ADS-B - negative
Flight following(120 mile trip) - negative

Looking outside 99.8% of the time - affirmative.
Instrument scan, and nav check 0.2% - affirmative.
 
I look outside also, Emini. If I am heads-down for any length of time at all, it makes me really nervous. Two things I worry about in the air: 1) running into another airplane and 2) a fire. The rest of the stuff can be handled.
 
On a day like today with clear skies ,you have to be looking out the window, so many planes in the pattern.
 
I have a related question if you don't mind (sorry, not trying to jack your thread). I was in the practice area today taking some family members up for a flight and I was monitoring approach as NY can get very busy so I try not to bug them unless there are really a lot of planes around. I turned back to the airport and I heard approach advise another plane of my position. Even though I'm not talking to them, can/should I contact approach and tell them that I have him in sight? How would I word it... how's "NY approach, Cherokee XXXXX, I'm at 3,000 going westbound that you just mentioned, I have the Cessna in sight, will maintain separation"?

Thanks, and again sorry.
 
docmirror said:
G1000 - negative

Foreflight - negative

ADS-B - negative

Flight following(120 mile trip) - negative



Looking outside 99.8% of the time - affirmative.

Instrument scan, and nav check 0.2% - affirmative.
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Heh.

The flight following one is kinda silly. It doesn't bring your eyes inside for any considerable length of time if you set departure in a flip flop, before takeoff, or even ask the ground controller to see if they'll coordinate a squawk if they're the friendly sort and it's not too busy, and isn't any appreciable workload.

It's so habitual for me to do it, I don't even notice it anymore.
 
denverpilot said:
Heh.

The flight following one is kinda silly. It doesn't bring your eyes inside for any considerable length of time if you set departure in a flip flop, before takeoff, or even ask the ground controller to see if they'll coordinate a squawk if they're the friendly sort and it's not too busy, and isn't any appreciable workload.

It's so habitual for me to do it, I don't even notice it anymore.
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I'm just a silly guy. What's a ground controller? Don't need any friends, had em - not impressed. Don't like being told where to go, or more accurately where not to go. I don't notice it either. Sometimes I tune in the appr freq if I'm around the metro, listen and watch.
 
I haven't found flight following to be a matter of "them telling me where to go", however I appreciate the traffic advisories. Blindly searching the sky for traffic is generally ineffective, even if you aren't "blind". Knowing where to look is much more so. I don't care if people use it or don't, but if I'm VFR, I still like to have it.
 
I was at 6 k westbound Friday and my GDL gives me a traffic alert about the same time center gives me an immediate 30 right. Some assswad in an RV going to Petit Jean Mnt decided a 2k + a min decent was the right thing to do oblivious to any traffic. He went from 7600 to about 5000 in a little over a minute. I'm pretty sure he was show boating or something for a passenger.

Another RV driver was also on center FF and was act to like he had no clue where he was or what he was doing. He got frustrated and just cancelled services. Some old man. Hope he made it.

There was an RV fly in at Petit Jean Mnt this weekend.
 
orange said:
I have a related question if you don't mind (sorry, not trying to jack your thread). I was in the practice area today taking some family members up for a flight and I was monitoring approach as NY can get very busy so I try not to bug them unless there are really a lot of planes around. I turned back to the airport and I heard approach advise another plane of my position. Even though I'm not talking to them, can/should I contact approach and tell them that I have him in sight? How would I word it... how's "NY approach, Cherokee XXXXX, I'm at 3,000 going westbound that you just mentioned, I have the Cessna in sight, will maintain separation"?

Thanks, and again sorry.
Click to expand...

Just maintain you altitude and heading. No need to to jump on frequency when they don't even know who you are yet.
 
docmirror said:
I'm just a silly guy. What's a ground controller? Don't need any friends, had em - not impressed. Don't like being told where to go, or more accurately where not to go. I don't notice it either. Sometimes I tune in the appr freq if I'm around the metro, listen and watch.
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There's no good reason to fly around without flight following if the service is available. You can't see all the traffic around you with your eyeballs.
 
I'll tell you what. I didn't intend for this to be any kind of statement about FF, but here's the deal. You fly the way you want and I'll fly the way I want. If you think FF is the best thing since sliced bread, well then good on you'all, and I'm glad you are happy with your method. The day I take FF advice from the internet I might as well let this board do my taxes(68 pages last year).

Have a nice day.
 
docmirror said:
I'm just a silly guy. What's a ground controller? Don't need any friends, had em - not impressed. Don't like being told where to go, or more accurately where not to go. I don't notice it either. Sometimes I tune in the appr freq if I'm around the metro, listen and watch.
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Never had them tell me where to go VFR in 24 years, don't think they'll be starting anytime soon.

There's a three word fix for that problem if it ever arises. "Cancel Flight Following".
 
denverpilot said:
Never had them tell me where to go VFR in 24 years, don't think they'll be starting anytime soon.

There's a three word fix for that problem if it ever arises. "Cancel Flight Following".
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Aren't you the lucky one. So, it hasn't happened to you - therefore, it never happens. got it.

Now, on a more serious note, as has been explained, if you did happen to get an 'instruction' while on FF, and you don't reply with 'unable' or actually follow that instruction, it could go badly. Cancelling once the instruction is given is not an option from the 'other' list.

and on that note - Elvis has left the building. Do it, don't do it, and always tell others how they should do it. Have yourselves a ball.
 
docmirror said:
Aren't you the lucky one. So, it hasn't happened to you - therefore, it never happens. got it.



Now, on a more serious note, as has been explained, if you did happen to get an 'instruction' while on FF, and you don't reply with 'unable' or actually follow that instruction, it could go badly. Cancelling once the instruction is given is not an option from the 'other' list.



and on that note - Elvis has left the building. Do it, don't do it, and always tell others how they should do it. Have yourselves a ball.
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Such drama. You trying out for the community theater?

I said I haven't had it happen in 24 years. If it happens, I'm going to guess that there's a damned good reason like the impending sound of crunching metal that I would probably not care to partake in.

I'd say my chances after a quarter decade of being told to do something detrimental to my safety, plans, or life is pretty low.

We'll all be dutifully data tagged and tracked by the computers anyway, by 2020.

I bet you really hate control towers too? All those pesky people telling you what to do? LOL.
 
I generally don't get flight following when I'm just out running around practicing. I honestly don't use it unless it 50 miles or so or I go IFR. But regardless you still gotta keep your head on a damn swivel. We all do but clearly some guys dont
 
Unit74 said:
I was at 6 k westbound Friday and my GDL gives me a traffic alert about the same time center gives me an immediate 30 right. Some assswad in an RV going to Petit Jean Mnt decided a 2k + a min decent was the right thing to do oblivious to any traffic. He went from 7600 to about 5000 in a little over a minute. I'm pretty sure he was show boating or something for a passenger.
Click to expand...

So you're unhappy that someone descended at a rate you don't approve of?

Got it.
 
docmirror said:
G1000 - negative
Foreflight - negative
ADS-B - negative
Flight following(120 mile trip) - negative

Looking outside 99.8% of the time - affirmative.
Instrument scan, and nav check 0.2% - affirmative.
Click to expand...

This reminds me of an acquaintance that flies around Nordo even though his plane has a functioning navcom. Cannot be bothered. He also thinks it is OK to fly 200 lbs over gross with the stall horn blaring on climb out.

I use all of the resourses available to me. But I am not Joe Pilot.
 
orange said:
I have a related question if you don't mind (sorry, not trying to jack your thread). I was in the practice area today taking some family members up for a flight and I was monitoring approach as NY can get very busy so I try not to bug them unless there are really a lot of planes around. I turned back to the airport and I heard approach advise another plane of my position. Even though I'm not talking to them, can/should I contact approach and tell them that I have him in sight? How would I word it... how's "NY approach, Cherokee XXXXX, I'm at 3,000 going westbound that you just mentioned, I have the Cessna in sight, will maintain separation"?

Thanks, and again sorry.
Click to expand...

I've been tempted to do this but concluded its better not to. Are you POSITIVE that you are the traffic being called out? If you really want to say something, say position and request FF. Leave it up to the controller to determine whether or not you're the traffic they're talking about.
 
kyleb said:
So you're unhappy that someone descended at a rate you don't approve of?

Got it.
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Yea... That's it's. Nailed it on the head. I really didn't give a **** about anything else other than that. Never mind the MOA we were in, or the fact he was eastbound at 8000, or the NORDO, or the complete disregard for see and avoid. That didn't bother me at all.:rolleyes:
 
Unit74 said:
Yea... That's it's. Nailed it on the head. I really didn't give a **** about anything else other than that. Never mind the MOA we were in, or the fact he was eastbound at 8000, or the NORDO, or the complete disregard for see and avoid. That didn't bother me at all.:rolleyes:
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Last time I checked, flying through an MOA was perfectly legal, as is/was flying through uncontrolled airspace NORDO.

Why do you assume he didn't see you or that he was NORDO? My opinion is that you're creating your own strawmen and getting mad at the strawmen.
 
EminiTrader said:
I generally don't get flight following when I'm just out running around practicing. I honestly don't use it unless it 50 miles or so or I go IFR. But regardless you still gotta keep your head on a damn swivel.
Click to expand...

Two times you get Flight Following:
A. 50 miles
B. IFR

wait, what?


We all do but clearly some guys dont
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All horses are white but some are black.


Look, whatever...I find it interesting that two planes pass each other using see and avoid and one planes pilot is upset people don't look outside. I'm tired of everyone worrying about everyone else and making judgements without any facts. Did you talk to the other pilot? Do you know she didn't see you? Were you in a place to be seen? Maybe she was in the middle of some emergency procedure. Maybe she was reading a book. Point is you don't know...

Meh, rant over. Just wish more people worried about themselves more...
 
docmirror said:
Aren't you the lucky one. So, it hasn't happened to you - therefore, it never happens. got it.

Now, on a more serious note, as has been explained, if you did happen to get an 'instruction' while on FF, and you don't reply with 'unable' or actually follow that instruction, it could go badly. Cancelling once the instruction is given is not an option from the 'other' list.

and on that note - Elvis has left the building. Do it, don't do it, and always tell others how they should do it. Have yourselves a ball.
Click to expand...

I'm all for rugged individualism, but around here (midAtlantic/Northeast) there's lots of fast traffic that I never see, even if called out while on FF. If ATC advises a vector to avoid, I'm only too happy to comply.

The only time I've been annoyed is when NY Center descended me back into the bumps 60 miles from my destination. But that's an exception, not SOP. I was flying towards EWR/LGA STARs so I'm sure it was a good idea.
 
kyleb said:
Last time I checked, flying through an MOA was perfectly legal, as is/was flying through uncontrolled airspace NORDO.

Why do you assume he didn't see you or that he was NORDO? My opinion is that you're creating your own strawmen and getting mad at the strawmen.
Click to expand...

Proof discovered..... You cherry pick comments to suit your agenda. You don't happen to work for the media do you? :rolleyes2:
 
Atc vectored me to avoid unexpected high altitude sky diving... Yeah, I'd say FF is worth it if it's available

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
yah00 said:
Atc vectored me to avoid unexpected high altitude sky diving... Yeah, I'd say FF is worth it if it's available
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If it was unexpected, were the skydivers surprised, or was it someone ejecting from something military?

And how did the controllers know about it?

:)
 
Captain said:
Two times you get Flight Following:
A. 50 miles
B. IFR

wait, what?
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I think you misunderstood Captain. I said i get FF over 50 miles. Typically my flights that are longer than 50 miles i go IFR. Sorry if my grammar sucked.
 
denverpilot said:
If it was unexpected, were the skydivers surprised, or was it someone ejecting from something military?

And how did the controllers know about it?

:)
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Sorry, I should have clarified. The jumper plane was on frequency with departure control.

All of my FF interactions have been pleasant, and I don't see a reason for not using it, provided it is available. Obviously in some areas, ATC workload permitting, it may be unavailable at times (I have yet to experience this)

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
The times I wind up close to other aircraft always seem to be in the vicinity of airports and airways, which makes perfect sense. Those are good times to be taking a few extra looks out the window.

It's a good idea to avail yourself of FF on XC flights. It's called "flight following" because you lead and they follow you from sector to sector. It's not called "flight follow the ATC leader" and does not involve bending over while they ram it in your freedom-hole. :rolleyes2: I have been asked to deviate from my course for a few minutes due to IFR traffic to make ATC's life easier, but I've never been told to do steep turns while patting my head and reciting versus from the Qur'an, as some people make it out to be. Maybe the guys flying over vast bean fields don't get much out of it but I find it very helpful when flying through congested areas and in the vicinity of bravo airspace.
 
ollopa said:
The times I wind up close to other aircraft always seem to be in the vicinity of airports and airways, which makes perfect sense. Those are good times to be taking a few extra looks out the window.

It's a good idea to avail yourself of FF on XC flights. It's called "flight following" because you lead and they follow you from sector to sector. It's not called "flight follow the ATC leader" and does not involve bending over while they ram it in your freedom-hole. :rolleyes2: I have been asked to deviate from my course for a few minutes due to IFR traffic to make ATC's life easier, but I've never been told to do steep turns while patting my head and reciting versus from the Qur'an, as some people make it out to be. Maybe the guys flying over vast bean fields don't get much out of it but I find it very helpful when flying through congested areas and in the vicinity of bravo airspace.
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That sums it up.
 
paflyer said:
around here (midAtlantic/Northeast) there's lots of fast traffic that I never see, even if called out while on FF.
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Look and avoid is necessary, but is over-rated. If we're all honest, even when traffic is pointed out to us we struggle to find it fairly often.
 
Gerhardt said:
Look and avoid is necessary, but is over-rated. If we're all honest, even when traffic is pointed out to us we struggle to find it fairly often.
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I have flown a parallel course with traffic displayed on my EFIS, supposedly just 3 miles out and 500' below, and been unable to spot it.

As they say, "see and avoid" works right up to the point where it doesn't.
 
EminiTrader said:
I think you misunderstood Captain. I said i get FF over 50 miles. Typically my flights that are longer than 50 miles i go IFR. Sorry if my grammar sucked.
Click to expand...

So you typically don't get FF. Got it.
 
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