Does an emergency ever end?

[mattaxelrod]

This is a purely hyptothetical question that I always wondered about--

Let's say I'm flying VFR when I accidentally get myself trapped above a solid deck with no discernable way down. So I declare an emergency and with ATC's assistance, I make it through the clouds on the way down. Now I'm safely under a ceiling of let's say 2000', with no further concerns, since all the terrain is flat.

Can I say that the emergency is now over? How would that work?

Matt (no, never done it, really just wondering)

 

[Henning]

This is a purely hyptothetical question that I always wondered about--

Let's say I'm flying VFR when I accidentally get myself trapped above a solid deck with no discernable way down. So I declare an emergency and with ATC's assistance, I make it through the clouds on the way down. Now I'm safely under a ceiling of let's say 2000', with no further concerns, since all the terrain is flat.

Can I say that the emergency is now over? How would that work?

Matt (no, never done it, really just wondering)

The emergency ends with either "Have a good day" or "Call xxx-xxx-xxxx on landing" from whomever assisted you.

 

[bbchien]

The emergency ends with either "Have a good day" or "Call xxx-xxx-xxxx on landing" from whomever assisted you.

...or after the 709 ride. Sigh.

 

[John J]

...or after the 709 ride. Sigh.

Plus the all the associated reporting paper work that needs to be filled out and reviewed. Sadly this could be one of the reasons some pilots do not declare an emergency when in trouble. Argh!

John J

 

[mattaxelrod]

Isn't there some form (NASA??? something) that can be filled out immediately--which would preclude the pilot from getting in any trouble due to his own stupidity, at least as a one time thing?

 

[CFIse]

Plus the all the associated reporting paper work that needs to be filled out and reviewed. Sadly this could be one of the reasons some pilots do not declare an emergency when in trouble. Argh!

I have declared an emergency twice - both times so I could return to any runway at a Class C airport in an aircraft with an engine that was operating, how can I put this, marginally.

The first time I called the tower to ask what else I needed to do and not only did they tell me I needed to do nothing else, but seemed surprised to hear from me. And I was given priority.

I blocked the main airline runway when a tire blew out on landing a C172 and it would taxi turn right, but sadly all the exits were to the left. I had to give my name and contact info. to one of the nice firemen that turned up, otherwise nothing.

Don't let fear of paperwork stop you from declaring an emergency.

 

[gkainz]

I blocked the main airline runway when a tire blew out on landing a C172 and it would taxi turn right, but sadly all the exits were to the left.

One 90 degree left turn is nothing more than a 270 degree right turn!!!

 

[BruceAir]

Declaring an emergency doesn't necessarily result in a long paper trail, a check with the FAA, etc.


Note that FAR 91.3 says:


Sec. 91.3 - Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.

(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.

(c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to the Administrator. A good article summarizing real-world experience is avaialble at http://www.avweb.com/news/system/183214-1.html.


AOPA has several informatative articles available on its Web site (you must be a member to read most of the information), e.g.:


http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/1999/pc9904.html

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

This is a purely hyptothetical question that I always wondered about--

Let's say I'm flying VFR when I accidentally get myself trapped above a solid deck with no discernable way down. So I declare an emergency and with ATC's assistance, I make it through the clouds on the way down. Now I'm safely under a ceiling of let's say 2000', with no further concerns, since all the terrain is flat.

Can I say that the emergency is now over? How would that work?

Matt (no, never done it, really just wondering)

If you know what you need, just say "I need ----___, NOW ! -Not yet emergency though..."

I did that once at night after flying only on whiskey compass and watch for twenty minutes, then spiraling down out of 10K into a mountain valley in forest fire smoke, with my GPS failing to update. It was way out in the tullies, so I figures a radar fix would be nice and the briefer asked me if I was declaring an emergency. I said, "No, I just need a radar fix... NOW !" (READ; and if you don't get me the fix, then it WILL become an emergency) She was great and next thing I knew ATC radar was trying to fix on me with discrete squawk passing down through 5K and then just as I could see a few airport lights about 1000 feet below, simultaneously my GPS became updated and RADAR told me it was below. No emergency, no problem, no paperwork.

 

[Len Lanetti]

RE Does an emergency ever end?

Sure.

When you are sitting back with a beer in one hand and the other hand is banking like an airplane rolled over on its back while all of your friends are in the room and everyone is laughing.

When that happens you know the emergency is over.

Len

 

[bbchien]

I did not want to encourage a climate of "not to confess and declare". However, I have seen how all too often the decisions as to appropriateness by the FSDO are ex-post facto, e.g, the worse the outcome the more fault of the pilot's it was.

It is Sooo important to use good judgement and avoid emergencies when of the pilot's own making....

 

[Henning]

Plus the all the associated reporting paper work that needs to be filled out and reviewed. Sadly this could be one of the reasons some pilots do not declare an emergency when in trouble. Argh!

John J

I've declared a couple times on mechanicals and fires for priority handling and never had to do any paperwork, even the time I had to land at Edwards AFB when I got pumped the wrong fuel in Vegas. I even declared once for the very reason cited. I called in and got a breifing for a VFR flight from Fort Wayne IN to St. Louis in an Arrow with no nav radios. The forcast was Severe Clear, no problems for VFR flight. Just past Indianapolis in the time span of 2 minutes, the sky closed up around me and I was going solid, I declared (didn't have an instrument rating at the time, only had 50 hrs, but had really good instructors who made sure I could survive IMC long enough to get the heck out of it)and got staged down underneath and followed I 70 at 100 AGL to St. Louis landing at Parks/Downtown. Luckily I knew the streets. After I broke out the bottom, all I got was "State Your Intentions" and I told him that I was going to proceed along 70-255 to Parks (the runways basically butt up to the highway) and if I saw an airport along the way I would land there. They just said "roger" and told me they had lost radar contact and good luck. Never heards another word out of the situation. Had I not gotten a breifing that was bunk, things might have been different. It all depends on why you had to declare, was it something you screwed the pooch on, or did you just luck into one of them jackpots. All the Feds I know understand the difference.

 

[Henning]

I did not want to encourage a climate of "not to confess and declare". However, I have seen how all too often the decisions as to appropriateness by the FSDO are ex-post facto, e.g, the worse the outcome the more fault of the pilot's it was.

It is Sooo important to use good judgement and avoid emergencies when of the pilot's own making....

I can wholeheartedly agree with that last sentiment. The reality is, if you really screw the pooch and need to get bailed out, you've got some remedial and a 709 coming to you, who knows, it may save your life. I've never seen someone handed R&R for no good reason.

 

[John J]

It all depends on why you had to declare, was it something you screwed the pooch on, or did you just luck into one of them jackpots. All the Feds I know understand the difference.[/QUOTE]

The reason yes is very dependent on the specifics. I was flying in the late 1960' s ,1967 to be exact on a mail run in a Beech 18 that was very tired. On take off at 800 feet the right engine spun a bearing and punched a hole in the case. The Pratts hold 25 quarts a piece. It was a hot night and we were at 10k weight on take off. Just 500 pounds below gross. An 18 at gross is not a lot or fun We had in a rule in the cockpit of CRM even in those days. I was flying and at 800 I saw 25 quarts of oil on the cowl on my side. We shut it down. Ed was on radio and I and he declared to get home. We did landed ok with a lot of sweat. The Beech 18 is a 1930's plane with no perfect manuals and you sweat getting it home on one. Because we were a a part 95 now a part 135 carrier we had to fill lots of paper work. I do remember so well what the FAA guy said. "you are so lucky to get home." He saw the 25 quarts of oil on the right engine and wing. No check or 709 ride Needed but the paper work at that time was quite endearing. This was on a flight from DCA to CRW at 1030 at night .

Interesting to get the beast on the ground. I was able to gain another 400 feet on a 15 mile arc to land. I was proud to get a 1930's design airplane to climb in a very gentle turn. Yes we did use it again with fresh engines. Yes both of us kissed the ground afterword.

The paper work issue that I brought up was I feel we were a commercial charter outfit and there is a different "set of rules"
Today it is much different and I sense that it depends on the emegency and the responding agency. There is no set standards. Maybe that is why some pilots record all of their communications so that if something goes wrong they can referr to it.


I still feel like this emergency just happened yesterday.

Thank you for your comments

John J

 

[poadeleted20]

Isn't there some form (NASA??? something) that can be filled out immediately--which would preclude the pilot from getting in any trouble due to his own stupidity, at least as a one time thing?

There's a form which you have 10 days to submit to describe what happened so folks can learn, but it doesn't "preclude the pilot from getting in any trouble" if the FAA hears about it from another source (say, a Pilot Deviation report from ATC). The FAA can still violate you, and have the violation on your record, but you skate on the sanctions (i.e., no suspension or revocation, but you are still "eligible" for a 709 ride if the FAA thinks you demonstrated a lack of competence to hold your existing certificate). Find out more about NASA ASRS at http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/

 

[Ken Ibold]

There's a form which you have 10 days to submit to describe what happened so folks can learn, but it doesn't "preclude the pilot from getting in any trouble" if the FAA hears about it from another source (say, a Pilot Deviation report from ATC). The FAA can still violate you, and have the violation on your record, but you skate on the sanctions (i.e., no suspension or revocation, but you are still "eligible" for a 709 ride if the FAA thinks you demonstrated a lack of competence to hold your existing certificate). Find out more about NASA ASRS at http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/

Welcome aboard, Cap'n!