Does ADHD exist? Or is it a result of over-analyzing kids?

Is ADHD real? I'm not talking about other mental problems just ADHD

  • Yes

    Votes: 29 41.4%
  • No

    Votes: 41 58.6%

  • Total voters
    70
  • Poll closed .
I too haven't seen schools that get extra money for kids with diagnosable issues. The districts I have worked with seem to try NOT to label students, as it usually means more cost and work for them if they have to provide them with assistance if they are labeled special ed or 504. I have had to encourage parents to keep on demanding the schools to test their kids for things like dyslexia and autism, in order for them to get the educational services they need.
 
ADD kids are not in any way, shape, or form considered to be special needs. They aren't given any special treatment, have no dedicated teachers, and are certainly not considered disable. It gets diagnosed, hopefully it gets treated, but the school system doesn't treat them any differently than any non-ADD child.

But schools receive extra funding for getting your kids high on that stuff.
It's not about how special your child is treated. It's about money.
 
We went through this with one of our grand kids. The teacher and administrators were adamant that he be drugged, even though his performance wasn't much different than any other ten year old.

Then I discovered that the diagnosis comes with more money from the state, and had my answer...
 
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Schools receive significant extra funding every time they manage to get a child stoned on ADD drugs.

Please show me some type of legitimate stats or proof on this. It goes against everything I've seen in over a decade of working with children's mental health and many years with school districts.
 
Please show me some type of legitimate stats or proof on this. It goes against everything I've seen in over a decade of working with children's mental health and many years with school districts.

See above. We went through it personally, instead of through stories told by others.

What I saw were 'educators' bent on labeling and whatever else it took to insure that everybody was average, so nobody created a need for extra work. Stoned children were so much less difficult to ignore, tha active ones...

We pulled him out, hired a tutor and the results we re amazing... No more idiotic bs from lazy union members.
 
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See above. We went through it personally, instead of through stories told by others.

I'm not talking about your personal experience. I do believe there are teachers that would prefer a child be medicated so that they behave better in class. And let me reiterate that my experience is not "stories told by others" either, but in fact one that I've come to by working as an intervention counseling for a school district, and then working and running a community counseling agency focused on children -many of whom are brought to us by parents seeking to address symptoms through counseling as opposed to meds.

What I have not come across is schools getting paid "significant extra funding" every time they have a child on ADHD meds. I would like some data showing where you have seen this.
 
I think ADD exists and that many children benefit from ADD treatment. However, I believe it is oversold in today's society.

Many parents refuse to believe that children (their intelligence, work ethic, etc) are distributed across a bell shaped curve. So if little Johnny isn't a top 1% achiever, there must be a cause. Call in the doctors and let's see if we can get a diagnosis, because, after all, we are SUPERPARENTS and there is no way in the world (barring a medical condition) that OUR child isn't in the top 1% in every category...
 
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I have two daughters, one has ADD, one does not. The one with ADD is the younger of the two. I refer to her as a human border collie. She was diagnosed as being ADD by her fifth grade teacher, in response to her falling grades. Apparently, that's a very common time for that to happen, as their classwork starts to become more demanding. Naturally, we were upset, and didn't want to medicate her, but nothing else was working, so that's what we tried, and her grades improved almost immediately.

Now, for those of you who think its lazy parenting, please tell me why it is that the older child has never had this issue. Trust me on this, they get the same parenting, live in the same house, have gone to the same schools, and dance at the same studio. She doesn't take her medication (Adderall) on the weekend, and I can tell you she behaves very differently Her follow thorough on basic household tasks is not good, although we do manage to get her to do her homework, but it can be a bit of a struggle.

For those of you "follow the money" folks, she was diagnosed by her teacher, who is a public employee and has no financial incentives. All this meant to her was some extra work. The school system does not get extra money for ADD children, much of the time, they don't even know which ones have been diagnosed as such. The diagnosis was confirmed by her pediatrician, who is her regular doctor. We called him and made the appointment, he had no control over who we chose, and received his standard fee for that sort thing. The only party in this chain that has made any substantial amount of money is the drug maker, who has no part in the decision making process.

Why is this diagnosis appearing now? For one thing, we're asking more of more children, we're trying to get more kids performing at a high level. Look at how selective many of the big state schools have become. When I was applying to colleges, the University of Florida, which was my home state's school, was a backup. Now it's a selective university. How about a really selective place, like Stanford? Half of the applicants to Stanford are their class valedictorians, and most of them don't get in. We all want the best for our children, and when something stands in the way of their success, we do our best to overcome it. Years ago, when someone wasn't all that good of a student, no one worried about it all that much, if they wanted to go to college, they'd get in somewhere, and if they didn't, fine, there were other things to do for a living. Nowadays, most of us don't accept that.


That there is a brain difference in some is of no doubt, and it has nothing so much to do with "lazy" parenting for the grades either. It's about the method of presenting them information.

I will bet dollars to donuts your hyper child has a photographic memory. A hyper person assimilates information through visual and tactile experience and process observation. They do horribly in classrooms, they excell in apprenticeships.

This is coming from a person that grew up as an un-medicated hyper child with a photographic memory, test scores well into the genius range, and horrible grades at school. However, school was the least education I got in a day because at a very young age, I started working in a mechanical field and grew up in fabrication and machine shops.

The question kinda comes down to is it an issue of the child not being fit for society, or society not being fit for the child.

Our society gears education all in the same direction because 80% of people learn the same way. Hyper kids are like sponges, but they can't absorb what they are being immersed in, so they get bored and fail at it. You can choose to medicate them to fit society though, it will provide them a much easier life, if not quite as interesting and fun.

BTW, teachers are not qualified to diagnose anything, and the schools get more money for medicated kids.
 
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I'm not talking about your personal experience. I do believe there are teachers that would prefer a child be medicated so that they behave better in class. And let me reiterate that my experience is not "stories told by others" either, but in fact one that I've come to by working as an intervention counseling for a school district, and then working and running a community counseling agency focused on children -many of whom are brought to us by parents seeking to address symptoms through counseling as opposed to meds.

What I have not come across is schools getting paid "significant extra funding" every time they have a child on ADHD meds. I would like some data showing where you have seen this.

It may vary by district, but it has been in main stream media reporting for awhile. Now I will grant that since they have no obligation to tell the truth that it may all be propaganda and lies, but that is where the information came from that I got.
 
It may vary by district, but it has been in main stream media reporting for awhile. Now I will grant that since they have no obligation to tell the truth that it may all be propaganda and lies, but that is where the information came from that I got.

As best as I can tell, the medication isn't as strictly important as the diagnosis, which makes the kid eligible to be classified as "disabled" and put into Special Ed -- on paper. I say "on paper" because with admirable bureaucratic deftness, the kids are put into Special Ed, but then immediately mainstreamed. So in other words, nothing changes except that the district gets the Special Ed subsidy.

When my younger goddaughter stayed with Jeannette and I one summer after flunking out of third grade, she came with a bag of meds that the school's contracted shrink had prescribed for her. I promptly locked them in the safe and never gave them to her.

She managed to make about eight months' progress in her school work during the summer with private tutoring and without the meds. In fact, when she went back to school, the school district re-tested her (academically, I mean) and advanced her to the fourth grade. I also took out memberships in the Y for both girls to help them -- especially the little one -- offload their excess energy.

At some point during the school year, the little one had her appointment with the shrink, during which she proudly mentioned that she wasn't taking the meds any more. The shrink was actually okay with that. The problem was with the school. They were afraid that the shrink might withdraw the diagnosis -- which would mean losing the Special Ed subsidy -- if my goddaughter was functioning normally without being medicated.

It's all about money in the end.

Their mother, at my urging, got the girls into a charter school, where they did very well -- sans medication. They're both in a charter high school now and on the honor roll. Nothing was ever said about medications once they left the public school.

Rich
 
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Thank you. It's interesting, as the desire to label kids and get them under the Special Ed or 504 umbrella is not something I have seen here in Texas with the three districts I have been privy to. Parents seem to have to fight long, hard, and loud to get services for their kids, even if they very clearly need them (not talking ADHD here, but other learning and developmental issues). I am sure the situation can vary state to state; my only experience is here in Texas. Perhaps they get money as well, but they certainly don't seem to be pushing to have to provide accommodations to these kids.
 
Thank you. It's interesting, as the desire to label kids and get them under the Special Ed or 504 umbrella is not something I have seen here in Texas with the three districts I have been privy to. Parents seem to have to fight long, hard, and loud to get services for their kids, even if they very clearly need them (not talking ADHD here, but other learning and developmental issues). I am sure the situation can vary state to state; my only experience is here in Texas. Perhaps they get money as well, but they certainly don't seem to be pushing to have to provide accommodations to these kids.

I'm sure it's a regional thing. I can tell you horror stories about New York and Philly some day.

Rich
 
I'm sure it's a regional thing. I can tell you horror stories about New York and Philly some day.

Rich

And make sure to give her the A23 remote battery when you talk.
 
I can show you guys both sides of the coin.

The principal in my son's elementary school tried to tell us several times that he had ADHD. Right off the bat I'm thinking she's an educator, not a doctor, she shouldn't be diagnosing kids. The funny thing is that our school has a relationship with a counseling center where she directed us. You'd have to know my son...like a lot of boys he has a lot of energy and is not always optimally behaved. Never has been. But he's not ADHD. The school required that we take him to the aforementioned counseling center before they'd let him return. The counselor suggested a specific doctor and medication. WTF? But they couldn't make us give it to him, and we did not. He functions just fine, but once or twice a year he's in the office for playing in class, shooting rubber bands, making jokes, etc. He's in a lot less trouble in school than I was at his age.

Side note: He has always been in the gifted program and at 13 is doing college level math and science.

Now, with that said, we have two sets of friends with kids the ages of our own. Both families have sons who were off the charts when they were younger. Completely out of control, despite their siblings being normal. ADHD, I promise you. Both families fretted about using medication but both eventually ran out of other options.

It doesn't take effect over night. But over a period of time everyone can see all the difference in the world. Kids who used to be living terrors are now enjoying life and are a pleasure to be around. They're not zombies like some people like to portray. They're good kids who truly are enjoying themselves now, when before I can't imagine that it was possible.

Is ADHD real? Absolutely, without a doubt.
Is it over-diagnosed? Again, I have no doubt about that either.
 
ADD kids are not in any way, shape, or form considered to be special needs. They aren't given any special treatment, have no dedicated teachers, and are certainly not considered disabled. It gets diagnosed, hopefully it gets treated, but the school system doesn't treat them any differently than any non-ADD child.

First, the title is ADHD, and second, the term 'special needs' is used by the school for accounting and financial purposes. It's a term that has specific meaning for education funding, whether it's accurate or not. Last, depending on the school district, yes - in some cases the school does get extra teachers, and some do get special treatment in the classroom once identified. Not all districts, but the one in TX that we are in does have a dedicated staff person for the ADHD students in middle school.
 
The funny thing is that our school has a relationship with a counseling center where she directed us. You'd have to know my son...like a lot of boys he has a lot of energy and is not always optimally behaved. Never has been. But he's not ADHD. The school required that we take him to the aforementioned counseling center before they'd let him return. The counselor suggested a specific doctor and medication. WTF? But they couldn't make us give it to him, and we did not. He functions just fine, but once or twice a year he's in the office for playing in class, shooting rubber bands, making jokes, etc. He's in a lot less trouble in school than I was at his age.

Side note: He has always been in the gifted program and at 13 is doing college level math and science.

Now, with that said, we have two sets of friends with kids the ages of our own. Both families have sons who were off the charts when they were younger. Completely out of control, despite their siblings being normal. ADHD, I promise you. Both families fretted about using medication but both eventually ran out of other options.

It doesn't take effect over night. But over a period of time everyone can see all the difference in the world. Kids who used to be living terrors are now enjoying life and are a pleasure to be around. They're not zombies like some people like to portray. They're good kids who truly are enjoying themselves now, when before I can't imagine that it was possible.

Is ADHD real? Absolutely, without a doubt.
Is it over-diagnosed? Again, I have no doubt about that either.

Did they pay for the visit?

No way would the school force me to take my kids to any Dr. Now, it's reportable. "Have you ever had psychiatric or psychological counseling?" How is he going to answer that one?
 
Of course ADHD exists, but all it's just a new name for an old disease. The disease used to be called "boy". Children afflicted with "boy" used to be treated with a combination of discipline and athletic activities. These days those kids are instead treated with drugs and video games.
 
That there is a brain difference in some is of no doubt, and it has nothing so much to do with "lazy" parenting for the grades either. It's about the method of presenting them information.

I will bet dollars to donuts your hyper child has a photographic memory. A hyper person assimilates information through visual and tactile experience and process observation. They do horribly in classrooms, they excell in apprenticeships.

This is coming from a person that grew up as an un-medicated hyper child with a photographic memory, test scores well into the genius range, and horrible grades at school. However, school was the least education I got in a day because at a very young age, I started working in a mechanical field and grew up in fabrication and machine shops.

The question kinda comes down to is it an issue of the child not being fit for society, or society not being fit for the child.

Our society gears education all in the same direction because 80% of people learn the same way. Hyper kids are like sponges, but they can't absorb what they are being immersed in, so they get bored and fail at it. You can choose to medicate them to fit society though, it will provide them a much easier life, if not quite as interesting and fun.

BTW, teachers are not qualified to diagnose anything, and the schools get more money for medicated kids.

No, actually she's kind of forgetful. She's also very talkative, and tends to change topics in the middle of a conversation.

At age 13, she is 5'2" and weighs 90 lbs. She's an unlikely candidate for any occupation requiring much in the way of physical labor, and she's about a 75th percentile student. She just has a hard time focusing on certain subjects, which is treatable. Do I like her being on medication 180 days per year? No, but it is preferable to her failing math. Incidentally, she's been recommended to take advanced math next year.

And, yes, the teacher is plenty qualified to diagnose ADD in children. She sees hundreds of children each year, and can pick out those with untreated ADD better than can a physician, who only each child a few minutes a year. As we all know, experience is the best teacher. My wife is an RN by trade. Previously, she worked in a hospital unit that took care of post-surgery cardiac case, all the way from relatively minor procedures up to heart transplants. She had one patient who had some circulatory issues, and was charged with finding a pulse in her lower extremities. They use a listening device they refer to as "a doppler" (I don't know its correct name) to find a pulse in patients such as this. She found the pulse and noted it on the chart. This patient's surgeon came and was trying to find the pulse, but could not locate it, and began to berate my wife. She asked for him to give her the equipment, which he did, and she proceeded to find the pulse for him. He then apologized. Despite his four years of medical school and I don't know how many years of surgical internship and residency, he didn't know how to use that piece of equipment as did the nurses did, because he did not use it on a regular basis. The same is true for this teacher, she sees children in a classroom setting year in and year out, and knows very well what the symptoms of ADD look like. Since she is not a physician, the final diagnosis was our pediatrician's, but if she had not started the process I doubt her pediatrician, who sees her a few minutes a year, would have picked up on it. i'm grateful that she did what she did.
 
Please show me some type of legitimate stats or proof on this. It goes against everything I've seen in over a decade of working with children's mental health and many years with school districts.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/medicating/schools/feds.html

Section 504 of the Civil rights law of 73, and the IDEA regs of 1990 are two of the more prominent systems. There's also state laws in CO, and CA, and I think in NY and FL. But, I can't offer you any stats, cuz - I don't work for you. :wink2:
 
I too haven't seen schools that get extra money for kids with diagnosable issues. The districts I have worked with seem to try NOT to label students, as it usually means more cost and work for them if they have to provide them with assistance if they are labeled special ed or 504. I have had to encourage parents to keep on demanding the schools to test their kids for things like dyslexia and autism, in order for them to get the educational services they need.
You have much more experience than me so please indulge me...is an IEP what determines special ed or 504?
 
I have two daughters, one has ADD, one does not. The one with ADD is the younger of the two. I refer to her as a human border collie. She was diagnosed as being ADD by her fifth grade teacher, in response to her falling grades. Apparently, that's a very common time for that to happen, as their classwork starts to become more demanding. Naturally, we were upset, and didn't want to medicate her, but nothing else was working, so that's what we tried, and her grades improved almost immediately.

Well of course your two kids are different.

I'd also wager that once they enter the real world of life outside of school and your home, you'll see the hyper one do better than the other, that is unless she gets dragged into thinking she needs to sedate herself with pills.

Most of the more hyper kinds I knew growing up are making more money and are the ones with their own business, compared to the more mellow kids.

As for teachers, what's easier, going to work and teaching 30 hyper kids who need stimulation, or 30 medicated zombies that just sit there and listen to you read out of a teachers edition.
 
Well of course your two kids are different.

I'd also wager that once they enter the real world of life outside of school and your home, you'll see the hyper one do better than the other, that is unless she gets dragged into thinking she needs to sedate herself with pills.

Most of the more hyper kinds I knew growing up are making more money and are the ones with their own business, compared to the more mellow kids.

As for teachers, what's easier, going to work and teaching 30 hyper kids who need stimulation, or 30 medicated zombies that just sit there and listen to you read out of a teachers edition.

They are anything but zombies. There are lots and lots of ADD kids who are not behavior problems, they just fail the subject. There sure are a lot of unwarranted assumptions on this subject here on this thread.
 
You have much more experience than me so please indulge me...is an IEP what determines special ed or 504?

I'm not a teacher or school counselor -I had a unique position in that I was a licensed counselor at a high school, on staff to do crisis counseling (dealing with everything from rape to bullying to suicidal kids) -so I am not an expert on special ed by any means. My understanding is that the ARD (Admission, Review Dismissal meeting) determines if a kid is special ed or 504 (504 basically being the code for someone who doesn't totally qualify for special ed, but still needs some extra help or accommodations for whatever reason). Once the kid has his/her label, then they develop the IEP (Individualized Education Program) for that kid.

(I wrote out the acronyms for those that might not know what they mean.)
 
At age 13, she is 5'2" and weighs 90 lbs. She's an unlikely candidate for any occupation requiring much in the way of physical labor, and she's about a 75th percentile student. She just has a hard time focusing on certain subjects, which is treatable. Do I like her being on medication 180 days per year? No, but it is preferable to her failing math. Incidentally, she's been recommended to take advanced math next year.

Nothing wrong with short! I'm 36 and 5'2". I'm up to 120, but I was about her size -maybe a bit shorter at 13 -and turned out just fine. :yes:

Bryan mentioned this a little bit, but we have a niece who is ADHD. Her mom is too. Mom really didn't want her on meds, and tried to do without for years. Life was rough for her -difficulty at school with teachers AND peers, because she was fairly out of control. Finally, they put her on meds, and she is a lot happier. Does better at school, has more friends. My SIL tries to skip her meds sometimes, and you can tell. It's like night and day.

I am not pro-meds. I'm a counselor, which basically means I think people should explore other options before jumping to pills -whether that's ADHD meds or antidepressants. That being said, I am not anti-pill, because I have seen them work when other things have not. I don't like seeing people being shamed for choosing to medicate themselves or their children when it is needed.

And, yes, there are people who are too quick to jump to a prescription to deal with an issue that could be addressed with parenting, exercise, or discipline. But that doesn't mean there aren't other people who have done those things, and their kids are still struggling.
 
Not a simple yes or no issue , did not participate in the poll for that reason. Is ADHD over diagnosed ? Yes I think so.

Cheers
 
Not a simple yes or no issue , did not participate in the poll for that reason. Is ADHD over diagnosed ? Yes I think so.

Cheers

Well, it is a simple yes or no. You've chose the 'yes' answer, but qualified it with 'over-diagnosed'.

Prost
 
I believe it to real,however probably extremely over disgnosed
 
I have two daughters, one has ADD, one does not. The one with ADD is the younger of the two. I refer to her as a human border collie. She was diagnosed as being ADD by her fifth grade teacher, in response to her falling grades. Apparently, that's a very common time for that to happen, as their classwork starts to become more demanding. Naturally, we were upset, and didn't want to medicate her, but nothing else was working, so that's what we tried, and her grades improved almost immediately.

Now, for those of you who think its lazy parenting, please tell me why it is that the older child has never had this issue. Trust me on this, they get the same parenting, live in the same house, have gone to the same schools, and dance at the same studio. She doesn't take her medication (Adderall) on the weekend, and I can tell you she behaves very differently Her follow thorough on basic household tasks is not good, although we do manage to get her to do her homework, but it can be a bit of a struggle.

For those of you "follow the money" folks, she was diagnosed by her teacher, who is a public employee and has no financial incentives. All this meant to her was some extra work. The school system does not get extra money for ADD children, much of the time, they don't even know which ones have been diagnosed as such. The diagnosis was confirmed by her pediatrician, who is her regular doctor. We called him and made the appointment, he had no control over who we chose, and received his standard fee for that sort thing. The only party in this chain that has made any substantial amount of money is the drug maker, who has no part in the decision making process.

Why is this diagnosis appearing now? For one thing, we're asking more of more children, we're trying to get more kids performing at a high level. Look at how selective many of the big state schools have become. When I was applying to colleges, the University of Florida, which was my home state's school, was a backup. Now it's a selective university. How about a really selective place, like Stanford? Half of the applicants to Stanford are their class valedictorians, and most of them don't get in. We all want the best for our children, and when something stands in the way of their success, we do our best to overcome it. Years ago, when someone wasn't all that good of a student, no one worried about it all that much, if they wanted to go to college, they'd get in somewhere, and if they didn't, fine, there were other things to do for a living. Nowadays, most of us don't accept that.



I agree with a lot of what you said here but please don't tell me your daughters teacher diagnosed her with ADHD. That simply can't be true. I'm a teacher( full disclosure I work in a private school) in real life and have been for 10 years-- teachers don't diagnose students, only a doctor can. The teacher probably raised concerns but beyond that, is powerless to diagnose.

I've argued this point on here before, ADHD totally exists. Absolutely anyone who has been around a kid with ADHD knows this to be true. I've just recently, sat through a lecture from a leading New York University professor, who is also a child psychologist, on this very topic. Unequivocally, ADHD does exist as a medical diagnosis-- it can't be argued. Equally unequivocal, the rate by which students are being diagnosed has rapidly increased. His point,a good one I think, is one of the biggest factors for the increased diagnosis is the drugs used to treat ADHD are so effective that many doctors use the quick fix of drugs when they see a chance to do so. You really can't blame the doctor who wants to help the student improve.

This entire discussion though, is filled more with judgement, blame, uneducated opinions, and pre-existing disdain for the education system in our country for most people to really adjust their views on the topic.
 
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Well, I have made some presumptive diagnosis simply by reading this thread. Some interesting pathology on display.

I will make my comments in no particular order.

I spent 35 years of my life as a working doc. Being right across the road from the local school I was the go-to guy for the school. (I was also the only go-to they had) I had many cases of ADD and ADHD referred to me. Yes, the disease does exist. Though not at the rate of incidence that the popular media claims.

As was noted above they were usually the result of teacher referrals though there were the parent referrals also. I am unaware of any financial incentive on the part of the school, so I have no opinion on that issue.

I was privileged to have an excellent, multidisciplinary child behavior group just 18 miles away and all presumed ADD/ADHD children were referred there for testing before I would consider prescribing anything - with a very few exceptions that I will comment on below. I received back a thick and thorough (very) five part behavioral/psychosocial consultation report for each child. Without doing the math, I remember that less than half came back with recommendations for a medication trial.

In response to a comment about 'have you ever been around a truly hyperactive child' - if you have not you have not a clue. They brought in CG one day with two adults firmly holding onto each arm of the child, who physically vibrated. When released he flew around the room like a wild robin. Speech pressure, abrupt movements, touching/handling everything in the room, pulling open drawers and cabinets, constant loud chatter. It was all but impossible to get his attention and get any meaningful response. He was exhausting just to be in the room with.
This was one of the few children that I immediately started on a multiple drug routine. When I saw him two days later it was like they had switched him for an identical twin. Not that he was a perfect child at that point but you could at least communicate and he was able to hold still enough for me to complete a physical exam. He was then sent on for my usual consultation with the multidisciplinary group. He did much better for another two years with medications and then was lost to follow up when the father moved on to a new job in a different state.

As far as ODD. These are difficult cases. Medication is not effective (in my experience) and require the help of a competent child psychiatrist and support group/therapy. Sometimes a nasty little kid just grows up to be a nasty big adult (shrug).

One day a parent brought a child in with a note from the teacher 'demanding' that the child be put on "Ritalin". On discussion with the child and parent it was clear to me that the child was not hyperactive. So we sent a note ot the school that the child was 'going to be' placed on Ritalin and I would need a weekly report from her for the next 4 weeks. What the teacher was not told was that starting the drug would be delayed until I had those 4 reports in hand. Well sir, according to those reports the improvement in that child's behavior in school was nothing less than world shaking. In the end there was no drug prescribed and the school superintendent quietly moved the child to a different class without anyone's feathers being ruffled. A win win.

Then there was the parent/child that asked for Ritalin because of falling grades. The girl actually begged me to give her something so she could concentrate. She was started on the drug (as a TRIAL) without the teacher being told. The failing grades rapidly improved back to almost straight 4.0 that she previously had managed. That girl was kept on a low dose of medication for the following two years of high school and received a full ride scholarship to a prestigious university. No one other than the family and myself ever knew she was on a drug.

In reflection I would say that ADD was the most common with hyperactivity being present in far smaller numbers. Drugs seemed to help some and not others (shrug). It was common for me to go through two or three drugs before settling on one. It was also common to come to the conclusion that the child was not benefiting from drugs and the parents needed to give the child counseling and support groups rather than chemicals.

The school I dealt with mostly is one of the better schools in the country. I never felt that the school(s) had any intention other than doing what was best for the student.
 
Well, it is a simple yes or no. You've chose the 'yes' answer, but qualified it with 'over-diagnosed'.

Prost

Read the question Kemosabe !

1. Does it exist ?: Yes

2. A result of over diagnosing ?: No, it is real !

3. Is it over diagnosed ? : Yes

I understand some people are incapable of understanding nuance, not everything is either black or white.

Cheers

Addendum, original question has been changed !
 
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I've just recently, sat through a lecture from a leading New York University professor, who is also a child psychologist, on this very topic. Unequivocally, ADHD does exist as a medical diagnosis-- it can't be argued.

This entire discussion though, is filled more with judgement, blame, uneducated opinions, and pre-existing disdain for the education system in our country for most people to really adjust their views on the topic.

I love these posts. No one said, from the beginning that it's doesn't exist as a medical diagnosis, so you qualified your own adamant statement without answering the actual question.

Since I brought it up, I'm the uneducated judgmental opinionated disdainful person.

Glad you've bought in, should be good money in it for you after your man-crush on the NYU prof/psychologist (medical doctor, or just PsyD?) guided you. Really happy that you understand you can't make the diagnosis. Spread the word to your other faculty and admin, cause sure as hell, most of them out there are doing just that. I know from personal experience.
 
Read the question Kemosabe !

1. Does it exist ?: Yes

2. A result of over diagnosing ?: No, it is real !

3. Is it over diagnosed ? : Yes

I understand some people are incapable of understanding nuance, not everything is either black or white.

Cheers

Nuance! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

And the progressives have a new buzzword for 'you is a stupid'. :yes:
 
I love these posts. No one said, from the beginning that it's doesn't exist as a medical diagnosis, so you qualified your own adamant statement without answering the actual question.

Since I brought it up, I'm the uneducated judgmental opinionated disdainful person.

Glad you've bought in, should be good money in it for you after your man-crush on the NYU prof/psychologist (medical doctor, or just PsyD?) guided you. Really happy that you understand you can't make the diagnosis. Spread the word to your other faculty and admin, cause sure as hell, most of them out there are doing just that. I know from personal experience.

This post is completely out of line. I don't need your approval and you should not throw out personal attacks against me. I'm not going to justify this with another comment. My point has been proven ove and over again and again by people who actually have been a part of this in real life.

I teach because I want students to learn not to make money off them by playing my supposed role in the diagnosis of ADHD. That claim is absurd.
 
This post is completely out of line. I don't need your approval and you should not throw out personal attacks against me. I'm not going to justify this with another comment. My point has been proven ove and over again and again by people who actually have been a part of this in real life.

I teach because I want students to learn not to make money off them by playing my supposed role in the diagnosis of ADHD. That claim is absurd.

I can tell you've never taught in a public school. Your outrage is -- noted.

BTW, I used to teach as well. Not currently active.
 
I can tell you've never taught in a public school. Your outrage is -- noted.

BTW, I used to teach as well. Not currently active.

You are correct I've never taught in a public school. I'm surprised you would attack me if you were a teacher. Nothing I said was untrue especially if you have taught.

I'm happily moving on from this.
 
That simply can't be true. I'm a teacher( full disclosure I work in a private school) in real life and have been for 10 years-- teachers don't diagnose students, only a doctor can. The teacher probably raised concerns but beyond that, is powerless to diagnose.


This entire discussion though, is filled more with judgement, blame, uneducated opinions, and pre-existing disdain for the education system in our country for most people to really adjust their views on the topic.

Just remember who came in and shat in this thread first. There are thousands of teachers out there in unions, and who have a vested interest in seeing additional cases diagnosed at the school level. Plenty of history about this can be found with a little google-foo.
 
Original question was changed.
 
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