Do Yuou Self Insure

Do You Self Insure?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 10.6%

  • No

    Votes: 59 89.4%
  • Total voters
    66
MBDiagMan

MBDiagMan

Final Approach
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
5,233
Location
Mount Pleasant,Texas
Display Name
Doc
Home Airfield
KOSA Mount Pleasant, Texa
I got the quote today on the Mooney and it literally doubled from last year. Nothing has changed since last year except that I turned 73. I’ve never had a violation or a claim.
 
I don't self insure, but unafraid to when the the risk/cost aren't in line.

AOPA has talked about this problem. This is age discrimination and the numbers don't add up in the underwriters favor. AOPA and assured partners are working on the problem. They'll still be working on the problem in 40 years when I'm your age. Only by then the arbitrary number will be 65. Assured partners never even responded to my quote request.
 
I got a hefty hike this year from my existing insurer, but my agent got a better one from a different company. I mentioned that I'd rather stay with the same company due to the age issues likely coming. She went back to them and they came close to matching the other quote. Ask your agent to do a bit of digging.
 
Try being a new ppl in a SuperStol. :eek2:
 
pigpenracing said:
Care to explain what? Aviation insurance is not required and I have been flying for 20 years without it.
My airplanes are paid for and I WILL NOT but expensive insurance....
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Do you carry liability insurance or are you totally self insured?
 
pigpenracing said:
Care to explain what? Aviation insurance is not required and I have been flying for 20 years without it.
My airplanes are paid for and I WILL NOT but expensive insurance....
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Fair enough, but what happens if you have an accident and injure someone or total the airplane, just take the lick? I’m not sure your advice is universal to everyone given varying financial situations.
 
I am waiting a unusually long time to get my quote for this year. Mine is due end of August. I am worried. Assured Partners is my agency.
I have to have some insurance since the airport I hangar at requires it.
I have to have insurance…not just because of the airport.
 
pigpenracing said:
I take my chances.... I'm not telling anyone else to do what I do.
If I total my plane I guess I will haul it to the scrap yard if I am still alive...
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And then your heirs get to float the financial burden of any lawsuits for injuries or damages toward others. Guess it works for some — YMMV.
 
Gary Ward said:
I am waiting a unusually long time to get my quote for this year. Mine is due end of August. I am worried. Assured Partners is my agency.
I have to have some insurance since the airport I hangar at requires it.
I have to have insurance…not just because of the airport.
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I’ve got Assured as well and due at the end of August and haven’t heard a thing from them yet. Unusual.
 
Good luck self insuring. Many public airports require liability insurance and the airport to be named as a co-insured on that policy if you want to base your aircraft.
 
RyanB said:
Fair enough, but what happens if you have an accident and injure someone or total the airplane, just take the lick? I’m not sure your advice is universal to everyone given varying financial situations.
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What advice? He isn’t suggesting that anyone else do that.
 
My take is do what’s right for you…my case liability is in reality pre paid legal for me and can really make the case for no hull coverage…It would be a hit but would not change the way I live…have not got to the point I want to do that yet though…having liability has paid for itself 100 times over in my case.
 
RyanB said:
Oops, you’re right, looks like I read it wrong, my fault. My opinion on not insuring yourself remains the same.
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Your opinion is too nice IMHO.

If our flying does real harm to someone on the ground, I feel that we have an obligation to ensure they can be made whole. $1MM liability usually solves the messes we are likely to make. Price out 2 or 5MM liability and you'll see that it's gets cheap "per MM" pretty quickly.

Hurting someone on the ground and then making their recovery "their problem" is insult added to injury, rude, and ultimately I believe, to GA's detriment. It's why car insurance is required in many states after all. Too many people hurt and left also holding the bag after a wreck.

It's all just hand-wringing and name-calling, though, until someone has an accident. Then character shows.

I think the hostility you received for "your comments" shows that pigpen knows what he's doing isn't awesome.
 
I am thinking about going Liability only next year, when you pass 75 the rates get so high you would have to total the plane every few years to get even. Liability only is available at a decent price.
 
What does it say for open discourse when the 'mod team' attacks with an exciting amount of logical fallacies a poster with an unsanctioned opinion?

Is this a pilot group or SNL' Spartan Cheerleader tryouts?

Do better mods.
 
Not buying insurance is not self insurance. Self insurance is setting aside enough money to cover your loss as well as any loss to others that you cause. Not being insured for liability is irresponsible and selfish.

if you don’t have at least a million set aside to cover losses you cause you are not insured, and you are part of the problem.
 
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FancyG said:
What does it say for open discourse when the 'mod team' attacks with an exciting amount of logical fallacies a poster with an unsanctioned opinion?

Is this a pilot group or SNL' Spartan Cheerleader tryouts?

Do better mods.
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Mods are allowed opinions. His posts were far less inflammatory than those against him were.
 
FancyG said:
What does it say for open discourse when the 'mod team' attacks with an exciting amount of logical fallacies a poster with an unsanctioned opinion?

Is this a pilot group or SNL' Spartan Cheerleader tryouts?

Do better mods.
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Believe it or not, the Management Council are active participants of the forum too with our own thoughts and opinions. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe I’ve said anything out of line, other than what’s considered typical discourse on a message board that’s designed for such. It’s evident that my viewpoint on the matter is different than some, and that’s quite alright, but I certainly haven’t made any “attacks”. So far, I’m the only moderator who’s made any comments in this thread as well, so I’m confused as to what you mean by attacks from the “mod team”.
FancyG said:
Didn't ask, don't care. Check out Block Island.
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It seems as though you do care, as this is now the third comment you’ve made along these lines. Honestly, I’m not sure what you’re on about with your sarcastic remarks here.
 
I thought about going self-insured when thinking about relo back home to PR due to the insane hull rates and general lack of underwriting in the Caribbean. But quick back of the napkin math showed I don't have the finances to afford a lawsuit over collateral damage (liability side). I also don't want to expose my pedestrian household to large hits in material standard and lack of liquidity as a result of a liability suit. As such, Liability-only is about the most "bare" I'm willing to go in support of my hobby. My hull exposure is low anyways; I don't buy six figure lawnmowers as a matter of principle. For the record, I carry full hull value coverage. At my hull value, it's still relatively cheap.

So I've settled on permanent primary residence in the CONUS for the airplanes' domicile of record, and just pay for the territorial coverage whenever I want to do the hop over deep blue. Coverage is a lot more affordable and available up here, which says a lot given the moribund nature of this market.
 
Salty said:
Not buying insurance is not self insurance. Self insurance is setting aside enough money to cover your loss as well as any loss to others that you cause. Not being insured for liability is irresponsible and selfish.

if you don’t have at least a million set aside to cover losses you cause you are not insured, and you are part of the problem.
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Taking the State of AZ as an example, using autos instead of planes.

To self-insure, you need to file a certificate of self-insurance, and they'll calculate a certain value. I'm told this is generally $35,000. You assure the state that you have that much in cash in a special bank account that stays available. Once you pass all the requirements, you're good-to-go.

That's self-insurance.

*disclaimer - I represent this to be as accurate as I know - but I've only read about this - not actually done it.
 
schmookeeg said:
Your opinion is too nice IMHO.

If our flying does real harm to someone on the ground, I feel that we have an obligation to ensure they can be made whole. $1MM liability usually solves the messes we are likely to make. Price out 2 or 5MM liability and you'll see that it's gets cheap "per MM" pretty quickly.

Hurting someone on the ground and then making their recovery "their problem" is insult added to injury, rude, and ultimately I believe, to GA's detriment. It's why car insurance is required in many states after all. Too many people hurt and left also holding the bag after a wreck. I noticed that when Asherah poles the red handle, nobody gives a thought to the insurance that goes up as a result.

It's all just hand-wringing and name-calling, though, until someone has an accident. Then character shows.

I think the hostility you received for "your comments" shows that pigpen knows what he's doing isn't awesome.
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He flies a single seat biplane, IIRC. I see it being a nonissue. I think that there are more uninsured planes out there than you might think. Tail draggers, home built, float planes, amphibians , warplanes, are all pretty hard to insure. Even my little old Arrow is getting ridiculous. I have noticed that when a cirrus pulls the red handle for some silly reason nobody mentions the in evitable insurance cost.
 
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Liability: I would never self insure, even if I had $$$ stacked to the ceiling. Well, to be fair, here in Canada we MUST have liability insurance on our planes anyways. Goes for every non-Canadian airplane entering the Canadian airspace as well so if going north is something you ever want to do, self insuring for liability isn't even an option. But, even if it was an option, I wouldn't do it. I don't see the point. I'm covered for $2M and pay peanuts for coverage, despite being a low time, VFR only PPL holder.

Hull: Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Right now, I have my Cherokee insured. The insurance quote was cheap (less than what I pay for my car somehow), I travel a lot this year, parking outside on trips as I can't take my hangar with me lol... I sleep better knowing that IF the plane gets caught in a t-storm or some idiot hit and runs it out on the ramp, I don't have to worry about it. It's less so about the $$$, I could cover what I have in it, but more so for having someone help and deal with it, if something were to happen. At the same time, in the past I have occasionally "self-insured" the hull value of a plane, especially when I bought a fixer upper I got cheap and the plane wasn't away from base very often throughout the year.
 
schmookeeg said:
Your opinion is too nice IMHO.

If our flying does real harm to someone on the ground, I feel that we have an obligation to ensure they can be made whole. $1MM liability usually solves the messes we are likely to make. Price out 2 or 5MM liability and you'll see that it's gets cheap "per MM" pretty quickly.

Hurting someone on the ground and then making their recovery "their problem" is insult added to injury, rude, and ultimately I believe, to GA's detriment. It's why car insurance is required in many states after all. Too many people hurt and left also holding the bag after a wreck.

It's all just hand-wringing and name-calling, though, until someone has an accident. Then character shows.

I think the hostility you received for "your comments" shows that pigpen knows what he's doing isn't awesome.
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Many insurance policies have a per person limit of $100K. That that’s not much for the the loss of life, but there will be others with deep pockets drug into the negotiation.
 
Clip4 said:
Many insurance policies have a per person limit of $100K. That that’s not much for the the loss of life, but there will be others with deep pockets drug into the negotiation.
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Maybe different in the States, but up here, it's $2M combined limit, person and property - no limit on the person as long as it's within the $2M overall limit.
 
Clip4 said:
That that’s not much for the the loss of life, but there will be others with deep pockets drug into the negotiation.
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Everything about this statement is unfortunate.
 
RyanB said:
And then your heirs get to float the financial burden of any lawsuits for injuries or damages toward others. Guess it works for some — YMMV.
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Why would this be the case? Your debt doesn't transfer to your heirs.
 
Tom-Flying said:
Why would this be the case? Your debt doesn't transfer to your heirs.
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Depends ... Quote from the article:

The estate must pay any debts owed by the deceased, provided that it has enough funds or property that can be liquidated to raise the cash to do so. The debts won't be paid if it doesn't. Beneficiaries aren't responsible for paying them unless they cosigned or are otherwise also obligors on the loans or debts. Different rules apply to spouses in the nine community property states.
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https://www.thebalance.com/handling-deceased-debts-before-and-during-probate-3505239
 
RyanB said:
Please, explain, I’m very curious…
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If someone crashes and injures or kills someone else, pretty unfortunate.

If the insurance is capped at 100k for loss of life, unfortunate.

When families go after aircraft spruce for simply selling a fuel pump on an experimental airplane... Unfortunate

An Rv10 crashing because the builder/pilot used rtv on the fuel lines and then attempting to sue Vans Because their instructions didn't say not to use rtv on fluid fittings. Having to defend that is unfortunate. Also unfortunate that the innocent 4 year old girl died
 
Racerx said:
An Rv10 crashing because the builder/pilot used rtv on the fuel lines and then attempting to sue Vans Because their instructions didn't say not to use rtv on fluid fittings. Having to defend that is unfortunate. Also unfortunate that the innocent 4 year old girl died
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I remember that case very well. I hated the fact that it was grandpa that made an error. Very sad all around ...
 
Tom-Flying said:
Why would this be the case? Your debt doesn't transfer to your heirs.
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Who controls your estate upon your death? I hope it’s your spouse or a family member. Your estate will be responsible for paying off any debts you owe, so if that gets wiped out, your family will be left with very little, if anything.
 
Racerx said:
If someone crashes and injures or kills someone else, pretty unfortunate.

If the insurance is capped at 100k for loss of life, unfortunate.
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Suppose you’d prefer floating a $100k loss out of pocket and the ensuing lawsuit, rather than let an insurance policy help cover it? Interesting way of thinking!
 
Insurance is legalized betting on whether you are going to crash or not. That said, I’d rather have it than not have it.
 
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