Do you get some trim?

Henning said:
Not really, you should know how many flicks of trim you need to throw in to make gross speed adjustments within 5 kts or so, especially where you do things in a regimented fashion like in the pattern.
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I sort of do that. For me, its zero flicks. Once trimmed for down wind speed of 75 with power pulled back to about 15" at the numbers, first notch of flaps will settle in at 70 on base, and second notch of flaps will settle in on 65 on final, with minor adjustments for conditions/weight on final.
 
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There are a few occasions where I've found myself over compensating the trim and having to go the other way. Then I end up fiddling with it. This mostly only happens when I'm too impatient for the airplane to respond to a major power change.
 
PPC1052 said:
I set it nose down from the notch that Cessna recommends. But I still have to roll nose down after take off. It's just the plane accelerating. There is no cause for alarm.
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This isn't rocket science. Just keep trimming it forward or back if that's the case a little more before take off on each flight until you find the sweet spot where it is trimmed for climb and the use that setting for take off. All the mark on the trim wheel shows is the trim tab is in trail of the elevator. The book isn't the law it is just a suggested starting point.
And yes a 152 or any GA type airplane feels like a truck compared to something like a Pitts or Extra. I would bet Wifferdill would back me up on this and that he also keeps his airplane in trim all the time. Don
 
PPC1052 said:
I find myself having to quickly roll more nose down trim as my plane accelerates just after leaving the ground. So I quickly go from pulling back on the yoke to rotate, to pushing forward hard, and rolling nose down trim. Sort of the opposite of what one might expect.
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The trim is not one of the primary flight controls.
 
peerlesscowboy said:
The trim is not one of the primary flight controls.
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One of the exercises my primary instructor had me do is circuits using throttle, rudder and elevator trim. The only time I could touch the stick was to flare. Did about 10 rounds around the pattern and I got it mastered pretty well. If you have the elevator trim set for climb the airplane will rotate and establish climb attitude without any input from you. Don
 
peerlesscowboy said:
The trim is not one of the primary flight controls.
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? /confused

Not sure how pulling back on the yoke, then pushing forward on the yoke, and rolling nose down to relieve pressure equates to using the trim as a primary flight control.
 
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PPC1052 said:
? /confused

Not sure how pulling back on the yoke, then pushing forward on the yoke, and rolling nose down to relieve pressure equates to using the trim as a primary flight control.
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Just came back from a flight to town in my 170, for take off......set the trim in the sweet spot, one notch (10*) flap, she'll lift the tail when she's ready and fly herself off with a little touch of back pressure. Accellerating thru' 70mph IAS retract the flaps and give the trim a quarter turn nose up and she'll climb right out at 80mph ;) I've established myself in a climb and I've only touched the trim wheel twice, once pre-take-off and again when I retracted the flaps.
 
PPC1052 said:
I find myself having to quickly roll more nose down trim as my plane accelerates just after leaving the ground. So I quickly go from pulling back on the yoke to rotate, to pushing forward hard, and rolling nose down trim. Sort of the opposite of what one might expect.
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What are you flying? And are you using flaps for take off?
 
Henning said:
Not really, you should know how many flicks of trim you need to throw in to make gross speed adjustments within 5 kts or so, especially where you do things in a regimented fashion like in the pattern. You should be able to throw in the trim predictively as you decelerate and reconfigure, ie 'hit the flap switch and give 2 flicks nose up' or whatever to get you set for for final speed, then set the throttle to make the descent path you need.
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Is it that hard to trim the pressure off?

What happens when you're in a electric trim palme, or a different aircraft?
 
James331 said:
Is it that hard to trim the pressure off?

What happens when you're in a electric trim palme, or a different aircraft?
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No, it's not hard to trim the pressure off, but it makes for a smoother, steadier, and more 'automatic' transition if you lead with the correct trim rather than play catch up, plus if you get distracted you'll end up closer to your target speed rather than back to where you were.

I rarely fly with electric trim, only one plane that I regularly flew, and I'd just count time for what I experience told me I would need.

It's no big deal, just makes things a little bit easier and smoother is all.
 
PPC1052 said:
I find myself having to quickly roll more nose down trim as my plane accelerates just after leaving the ground. So I quickly go from pulling back on the yoke to rotate, to pushing forward hard, and rolling nose down trim. Sort of the opposite of what one might expect.
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OK, first let me say right up front that I have no experience flying a Cardinal but assuming that pitch changes from flap settings are similar to a 170 or a 172 in that deploying flaps lightens the nose and retracting flaps makes the nose heavier..........experiment a little, when the nose gets light ("just after leaving the ground") instead of "rolling nose down trim" try retracting the flaps.
 
peerlesscowboy said:
OK, first let me say right up front that I have no experience flying a Cardinal but assuming that pitch changes from flap settings are similar to a 170 or a 172 in that deploying flaps lightens the nose and retracting flaps makes the nose heavier..........experiment a little, when the nose gets light ("just after leaving the ground") instead of "rolling nose down trim" try retracting the flaps.
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No. This occurs too close to the ground. Why are you trying to fix a problem that isn't a problem? The Cardinal has a huge stabilator. You set the trim for the take off roll, pull back to rotate, the plane lifts off, and as air speed changes with acceleration, the trim needs to be re-set because there is a lot of force necessary on the yoke to overcome the forces on the stabilator. The solution is just to add more nose down trim as necessary.
 
PPC1052 said:
No. This occurs too close to the ground. Why are you trying to fix a problem that isn't a problem? The Cardinal has a huge stabilator. You set the trim for the take off roll, pull back to rotate, the plane lifts off, and as air speed changes with acceleration, the trim needs to be re-set because there is a lot of force necessary on the yoke to overcome the forces on the stabilator. The solution is just to add more nose down trim as necessary.
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Normally I set my takeoff trim as my climb speed trim so my rotation is my hardest pull and then I just ease that as I accelerate into my climb speed. Either way works, just a preference of how to go about it. With a twin I find the trim for Vyse at typical T/O weight and use that as my T/O trim setting.

The nice thing about Beechcrafts, they have a numerically calibrated trim indicator.
 
PPC1052 said:
No. This occurs too close to the ground. Why are you trying to fix a problem that isn't a problem? The Cardinal has a huge stabilator. You set the trim for the take off roll, pull back to rotate, the plane lifts off, and as air speed changes with acceleration, the trim needs to be re-set because there is a lot of force necessary on the yoke to overcome the forces on the stabilator. The solution is just to add more nose down trim as necessary.
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I had the impression that you percieved it as a problem :confused: Sorry :dunno: In closing here's something to think about, if a lot of force becomes nessesary to hold the nose down that means you're going faster than the trim speed for your present configuration. You can trim the nose down if you like or you can change the flap configuration. I'd guess if you choose to trim the nose down to relieve the pressure then when you do retract the flaps you have to trim the nose back up again?
 
As others have said, you wouldn't get away without trimming in higher-performance aircraft.

For example, trim in our 4-cylinder Warrior was optional, while trim in our Pathfinder was not. That big 6-cylinder engine out front required copious amounts of trimming, or your arm would hurt after flaring to land.

In the Ercoupe, trimming was a formality. It did virtually everything at 100, so trimming was a set-and-forget thing.

In the RV-8A, Mary and I switch seats every other leg. On her legs this means her featherweight is in front, and my heavyweight is in back (translation: nose down trim). Then, when we switch, I have to be sure to "fix" this (translation: roll in nose up trim, or back to near-neutral), or I will have to really yank 'er off the ground.

As we accelerate to 200 mph, we must trim the nose down gradually and continuously -- and we must do just the opposite as we come into the pattern.

Trim just ain't optional.
 
Trim is never optional once you figure out that it is what flies the airplane, and you are just there to correct for excursions.
 
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