Do people get hired these days based on who you know or what you know?

N918KT

N918KT

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I know that in aviation we get hired based more on who we know rather than what we know. That's how I got my first full time summer airport job working with a cargo handling company (my airport summer job ended today though).

But what about other jobs besides aviation? Is getting hired in general these days more based on who you know rather than what you know?
 
Who you know.

There's no better way to let a potential employer understand what you know unless you know someone who tells them.

Network, network, network.
 
DEFINITELY WHO YOU KNOW:yes:


There are some jobs out there that are not advertised and the only way to get them is have someone get you in. Individuals with qualifications lose out due to another individuals personal connections. NETWORKING is indispensable.
 
The further up you go on the totem pole, the more it is who you know. They never post on their website that they are looking for a VP. Further down, networking never hurts.
 
I think you'll see most pilot jobs have more to do with qualifications than who you know. I can tell you in EMS we have pilot openings everywhere because there just aren't many pilots that meet 2,000 hrs TT and 1,000 hrs PIC. It's an insurance / CAMTS certification requirement. There are plenty of helicopter pilots out there, just not many who have the hours. If someone finds a way around those requirements, generally they're washed out of training or don't last long at their base.
 
Both, who you know only matters if what you know is sufficient for the job.
 
Velocity173 said:
I think you'll see most pilot jobs have more to do with qualifications than who you know. I can tell you in EMS we have pilot openings everywhere because there just aren't many pilots that meet 2,000 hrs TT and 1,000 hrs PIC. It's an insurance / CAMTS certification requirement. There are plenty of helicopter pilots out there, just not many who have the hours. If someone finds a way around those requirements, generally they're washed out of training or don't last long at their base.
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There are helicopter pilots out there with the qualifications, they just don't want to work for the low pay of several of these EMS operators.
 
Unfortunately it's who you know.you can still break into aviation if you have the time and perservalance and want to start at the bottom.always good to have a friend in the business.
 
If you don't know anything about the business you are trying to enter, who you know may get you in the door but you will leave shortly by the back door because a business usually can't afford to keep incompetent staff.

Cheers
 
Who you know might get you the interview but you still have to hold up your end. Even if you knew the president, a know nothing won't survive.
 
Agree that its who you know. I can't get a full-time job in aviation or even a part-time CFI job around here. 7 or so flight schools or flying clubs in the area, no one is interested. My part-time Fedex job is all I have right now.

Very discouraging. 42 years old to.

David
 
flhrci said:
Agree that its who you know. I can't get a full-time job in aviation or even a part-time CFI job around here. 7 or so flight schools or flying clubs in the area, no one is interested. My part-time Fedex job is all I have right now.

Very discouraging. 42 years old to.

David
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Very few pilots make a career near their home, in aviation (especially when starting out) you have to be willing to go to the job rather than wait for the job to come to you.

I know it's tough when you are older and have family/responsibilities. Focus on the long term goal and determine what it will take to get there.
 
flhrci said:
Agree that its who you know. I can't get a full-time job in aviation or even a part-time CFI job around here. 7 or so flight schools or flying clubs in the area, no one is interested. My part-time Fedex job is all I have right now.

Very discouraging. 42 years old to.

David
Click to expand...

How far are you willing to drive?
 
It depends on what sector of employment, public or private. Gender and race play a big part in the public sector, and in places like New York City, nepotism plays a huge factor.

In the private sector, especially retail, your physical appearance can be the determining factor that decides if you get the job or not.

-John
 
RotorAndWing said:
There are helicopter pilots out there with the qualifications, they just don't want to work for the low pay of several of these EMS operators.
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Yeah but they always come back to EMS when they're done making money with oil & gas and overseas stuff. Location choice, home every night and rewarding flying. Pay isn't the best but still just as good as ENG, LE and tours.
 
Velocity173 said:
Yeah but they always come back to EMS when they're done making money with oil & gas and overseas stuff. Location choice, home every night and rewarding flying. Pay isn't the best but still just as good as ENG, LE and tours.
Click to expand...

EMS is good if you want to be home every night as you say (except when working overnights) or it's a base in your hometown. Otherwise the level of responsibility versus compensation isn't there. EMS is also a lot of sitting, sleeping, boredom waiting on a call (depending upon the program) and lower flight hours.

But back to the original comment:
I can tell you in EMS we have pilot openings everywhere because there just aren't many pilots that meet 2,000 hrs TT and 1,000 hrs PIC. It's an insurance / CAMTS certification requirement. There are plenty of helicopter pilots out there, just not many who have the hours.
Click to expand...

What keeps a lot of qualified pilots out is the low pay, not lack of qualified pilots.
 
X3 Skier said:
If you don't know anything about the business you are trying to enter, who you know may get you in the door but you will leave shortly by the back door because a business usually can't afford to keep incompetent staff.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Oh really?? Can't afford an incompetent staff??? Then how do my cable company, my banks and my phone company manage to survive when all they have is an incompetent staff?? Oh and my Doctors office who can't figure out what to charge me for an office visit since I don't have insurance right now and wanted to pay up front???
 
RotorAndWing said:
EMS is good if you want to be home every night as you say (except when working overnights) or it's a base in your hometown. Otherwise the level of responsibility versus compensation isn't there. EMS is also a lot of sitting, sleeping, boredom waiting on a call (depending upon the program) and lower flight hours.

But back to the original comment:


What keeps a lot of qualified pilots out is the low pay, not lack of qualified pilots.
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But there is a lack of qualified pilots. As you said they are picking higher paying jobs. That creates a shortage of qualified pilots. A guy working as a CFI or tours isn't making as much as EMS and you can bet they'd take a job in EMS in a heart beat if they could. Just had a guy walk in the office the other day wondering if we're hiring. There's a huge pool of sub 1,000 hr helicopter pilots right now that are out of work.

Money is only a small part of the problem. Companies are growing faster than they can hire pilots. Ours grew by almost 30 % last year alone. Combine that with pilots that washout of training or get let go once they're at their base, that leaves a shortage.

If I wanted to be gone for 6 months out of the year to undesirable places, fly a bunch, or go back to dual pilot I would. I'll take the lower pay to do this type of flying any day.
 
What you know is a given. We all know the same crap. Who you know is what matters.

Although, given some of the posts I've seen here, might want to brush up on what you know.
 
So if what we know doesn't matter then there's no point in having min qualifications. A 250 hr commercial pilot knows as much as a 15,000 hr one. Everyone will learn the job eventually right? :)
 
Velocity173 said:
But there is a lack of qualified pilots. As you said they are picking higher paying jobs. That creates a shortage of qualified pilots. A guy working as a CFI or tours isn't making as much as EMS and you can bet they'd take a job in EMS in a heart beat if they could. Just had a guy walk in the office the other day wondering if we're hiring. There's a huge pool of sub 1,000 hr helicopter pilots right now that are out of work.

Money is only a small part of the problem. Companies are growing faster than they can hire pilots. Ours grew by almost 30 % last year alone. Combine that with pilots that washout of training or get let go once they're at their base, that leaves a shortage.

If I wanted to be gone for 6 months out of the year to undesirable places, fly a bunch, or go back to dual pilot I would. I'll take the lower pay to do this type of flying any day.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's a money issue, not a lack of qualifications. If EMS really wanted more qualified pilots the pay would come up and you would see less ads looking for pilots.

Also it speaks very poorly for a hiring process when a company has a high number of "washouts". Either a poor training program or the hiring process is more interested in the low hanging fruit rather than the top of the bunch. Companies with good training programs and even better pre hire screening don't have those issues.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Yes, it's a money issue, not a lack of qualifications. If EMS really wanted more qualified pilots the pay would come up and you would see less ads looking for pilots.

Also it speaks very poorly for a hiring process when a company has a high number of "washouts". Either a poor training program or the hiring process is more interested in the low hanging fruit rather than the top of the bunch. Companies with good training programs and even better pre hire screening don't have those issues.
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High washout rate? Never said that. Generally one in each class of four or five. Just because someone meets the min hours doesn't mean they're ready to do this work. That IS part of the hiring process. You don't truly know of an applicant can pass a 135 checkride simply because of an interview. It's about standards and the company adhering to standards. I don't want some guy who was marginal and slipped through the cracks flying any of my family to the hospital.

So yeah, to get back on topic, some fields in aviation stick to a set of standards. Doesn't matter who you know. Insurance and certification requires it. I won't debate what minimum experience is necessary in order to be a safe pilot but I don't think companies just make it up for the heck of it.
 
Velocity173 said:
High washout rate? Never said that. Generally one in each class of four or five. Just because someone meets the min hours doesn't mean they're ready to do this work. That IS part of the hiring process. You don't truly know of an applicant can pass a 135 checkride simply because of an interview. It's about standards and the company adhering to standards. I don't want some guy who was marginal and slipped through the cracks flying any of my family to the hospital.

So yeah, to get back on topic, some fields in aviation stick to a set of standards. Doesn't matter who you know. Insurance and certification requires it. I won't debate what minimum experience is necessary in order to be a safe pilot but I don't think companies just make it up for the heck of it.
Click to expand...

25% is a high washout rate.

But, as you stated, EMS (your company) is attracting the low time pilots rather than the higher time experienced ones and that's a pay/QOL issue, not a shortage of qualified pilots. The qualified ones are out there, you just have to come up with the money to get them and retain them.
 
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