Do I need to keep it

[SkyHog]

I am cleaning my desk right now, and I came across the following endorsement (which is not in my logbook, since the CFI didn't have it when he issued it).

Its just a piece of paper that reads:

"I certify that Nick D. Brennan has received the the (sic) required training of CFR.61.105. I have determined that he is prepared for the Private Pilot Knowledge Test."

And another peice of paper that reads:

"I certify that Nick D. Brennan has received the required training of CFR 61.93(b)(1). I have determined he is proficient to practice solo takeoffs and landings at KABQ. The takeoffs and landings at KABQ are subject to the following conditions: VFR, Wind less than 15kts, crosswind less than 8kts."

Is there any reason why, after I have gotten my PPL, I need to keep these pieces of paper?

 

[Rudy]

Hey Nick,
I had the same question, I went ahead and kept mine in a folder where i have a few things! I don't see why it would be necessary to have after you have already became a Private Pilot.

 

[gismo]

I am cleaning my desk right now, and I came across the following endorsement (which is not in my logbook, since the CFI didn't have it when he issued it).

Its just a piece of paper that reads:

"I certify that Nick D. Brennan has received the the (sic) required training of CFR.61.105. I have determined that he is prepared for the Private Pilot Knowledge Test."

And another peice of paper that reads:

"I certify that Nick D. Brennan has received the required training of CFR 61.93(b)(1). I have determined he is proficient to practice solo takeoffs and landings at KABQ. The takeoffs and landings at KABQ are subject to the following conditions: VFR, Wind less than 15kts, crosswind less than 8kts."

Is there any reason why, after I have gotten my PPL, I need to keep these pieces of paper?

Pretty much only for nostalgia, AFaIK. That said, why not attach them to the inside cover of your first logbook so you have a more complete record of your training to peruse someday?

 

[poadeleted20]

Why are those on separate pieces of paper instead of in your logbook where they belong, according to 14 CFR 61.103(d) and 14 CFR 61.87(p)? If I were you, I'd paste them into your log book. It's not likely that anyone will care about either at this point, but that's where they are supposed to be.

 

[Licketysplit]

Most ag-pilot's I know prefer to keep their flight review in their billfold in case they may need it in the field. It's safer than carring their logbook.
As for nostalgia, when I got my commercial, the FAA returned my private ticket with "VOID" stamped through it, and a nice letter stating that due to its age, they returned it for a memento.
I framed it and the letter along with a picture of the DE and myself shaking hands displaying my new CPL and a certificate from the flight school.

 

[poadeleted20]

Most ag-pilot's I know prefer to keep their flight review in their billfold in case they may need it in the field. It's safer than carring their logbook.

Unfortunately, that method is not legal.

14 CFR 61.56(c): Except as provided in paragraphs (d), (e), and (g) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which that pilot acts as pilot in command, that person has—

(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor and

(2) A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.

If the flight review endorsement is not in the log, it does not meet this requirement. In addition, there is no requirement for anyone to produce their flight review documentation on the spot ("in the field"). Logbooks need be produced only upon "a reasonable request" (14 CFR 61.51(i)(1)), which has been held by the ALJ's to mean you can bring it in to the FSDO at the earliest practical time, not that it must, as with pilot/medical certificates, be kept in the pilot's "physical possession" while flying per 14 CFR 61.3(a), i.e., available for immediate examination by any inspector who ramp checks you.

 

[SkyHog]

The reason that my CFI didn't put it in the logbook was because he was going out of town and he wanted to make sure that I could get those endorsements before he left. He left those pieces of paper with the dispatcher to give to me.

I was unaware that it was actually required to be in the Logbook. Thats good info. Perhaps I should go back and censor these posts, or am I clear?

 

[Michael]

I think if you just paste them into your logbook Nick, Your good to go.

 

[gismo]

I was unaware that it was actually required to be in the Logbook. Thats good info. Perhaps I should go back and censor these posts, or am I clear?

It was kept inside your logbook until recently, right?

 

[SkyHog]

It was kept inside your logbook until recently, right?

well, yeah, I had them folded up and sitting inside the front cover, but they were never physically attached to the logbook.

I gotta go paste that stuff in tomorrow morning when I get off work.

 

[poadeleted20]

I think if you just paste them into your logbook Nick, Your good to go.

Right -- I just don't see the FAA sending the paste to the FBI lab for age-dating.

 

[GaryO]

(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor and

(2) A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.

Is there anything in the FARs which spell what constitutes a "logbook"?

Or could you get away with saying that the scrap of paper was what you were using for a logbook at that time?

 

[poadeleted20]

Is there anything in the FARs which spell what constitutes a "logbook"?

Not explicitly, but 14 CFR 61.51(b) says what has to be in it. If any of the required items aren't there, it's not a valid log.

Or could you get away with saying that the scrap of paper was what you were using for a logbook at that time?

Not unless that scrap of paper contained all the elements required for a log entry per 61.51(b), which a flight review endorsement written per AC 61-65D does not.

 

[Speed]

If you're like I was, at some point every page in the logbook is going to be full of endorsements... I've got several that were written on paper and then taped on a page (so you could lift it up) and still see the endorsements under it.

I just pulled my little old logbook out to look - I've got 12 pages stock full of endorsements. That's the pre-stamped pages, the ground instruction pages, remarks pages, and the inside of the covers, plus a few taped...