Do I keep my Renter’s Policy?

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Jaybird180
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I don’t think I have any reason to keep it in-force anymore since I’m now covered by a Club policy. It will not cover me for any airplanes that I rent or borrow, but I don’t forsee either scenario occurring anytime soon. The only scenario that would FORCE me into either would be an extended period of downtime simultaneous with getting the Joneses for some airtime.

I talked to the insurance company holding my Renter’s policy and they recommended that I reduce the coverage to match the Club deductible, which may be a good idea, but I could also self-insure against the deductible. Any other pros/cons I should consider in the decision?
 
Are you protected from subrogation on your club policy?
 
The key thing about insurance and flying is making sure that somewhere there's a policy that covers YOU, personally. Not "the club" or "the airplane" but YOU. Preferably by name, but one that says the equivalent of "members in good standing of the club are considered named insureds" works too.

Too often an aircraft operator will say "we've got insurance" when what he means is "My butt is covered and the airplane owner is covered if you screw up". What's not said is "... and our insurer will come after you if they think it's a good business decision".
 
If both policies have a $100,000 per seat limit, does that mean that you're covered for $200,000 per seat?
 
Jay, the waiver probably means that you're OK from them coming after you for damage to the airplane.

But unless you're a named insured on the club policy, you're probably NOT protected against liability claims made against you personally, whether it's for a passenger's broken arm or Farmer Bob's prize Angus Bull, or the 4 kindergartners you sliced to pieces in your off-airport landing in the schoolyard (the ultimate nightmare).

So I'd ask to see the club's policy, and be sure you are comfortable that you're covered both for damage to the airplane AND liabilty to third parties before you cancel your renter's insurance. You might just drop the hull coverage and keep the liability.
 
Also keep in mind that the club's policy could change -- pretty much at any moment -- hopefully the club officers notify their members and whatnot when such a thing happens but are you willing to bet your assets on it?
 
I got a rental policy for about $200 through AOPA for $1M/$100K in liability.

It's so cheap considering the economics of aviation, that I don't know why anyone wouldn't have one.
 
$200 buys me 10 tows at my home club. that's about half a season's worth of flying.
 
TMetzinger said:
Jay, the waiver probably means that you're OK from them coming after you for damage to the airplane.

But unless you're a named insured on the club policy, you're probably NOT protected against liability claims made against you personally, whether it's for a passenger's broken arm or Farmer Bob's prize Angus Bull, or the 4 kindergartners you sliced to pieces in your off-airport landing in the schoolyard (the ultimate nightmare).

So I'd ask to see the club's policy, and be sure you are comfortable that you're covered both for damage to the airplane AND liabilty to third parties before you cancel your renter's insurance. You might just drop the hull coverage and keep the liability.
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I am.


jesse said:
Also keep in mind that the club's policy could change -- pretty much at any moment -- hopefully the club officers notify their members and whatnot when such a thing happens but are you willing to bet your assets on it?
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supercalifragilisticespialidocias

Alexb2000 said:
I got a rental policy for about $200 through AOPA for $1M/$100K in liability.

It's so cheap considering the economics of aviation, that I don't know why anyone wouldn't have one.
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Maybe they liked you more than me.
 
jesse said:
Are you protected from subrogation on your club policy?
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Not just that, but are you a named insured on the club policy? If not, you're totally unprotected from suits by third parties (including your passengers) without your non-owned policy.
 
Palmpilot said:
If both policies have a $100,000 per seat limit, does that mean that you're covered for $200,000 per seat?
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No, it means the club is covered for $100K for each seat, and you are covered for $100K for each seat. Not saying there isn't such, but I've not seen a club policy yet which makes the club members named insureds along with the club itself.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I got a rental policy for about $200 through AOPA for $1M/$100K in liability.
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That makes a lot of sense if the club has a waiver of subrogation. However, you might still want to also carry enough hull insurance to cover the club's deductible, for which the club might go after you even if you are also a named insured on the policy. The waiver of subrogation only protects you from the insurance company coming after you for what they paid to the club and others.
 
Ron Levy said:
No, it means the club is covered for $100K for each seat, and you are covered for $100K for each seat. Not saying there isn't such, but I've not seen a club policy yet which makes the club members named insureds along with the club itself.
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My club does. I had to fill out special paperwork to do so. I don't know how common it is though. I do know that the club in Lake Havasu did not have me as a named insured.

Just don't crash.
 
The policy is owned by the club. I am a member and according to the broker, satisfies the definition of named insured.

The biggest hit I would be exposed to (as I understand it) is the deductible, which is $1,000. I feel this is an acceptable risk if that's all the risk I have. The constitution also shields a pilot from liability until all investigations have been complete and the pilot found guilty of complete and utter stupidity (my words).
 
Jaybird180 said:
. The constitution also shields a pilot from liability until all investigations have been complete and the pilot found guilty of complete and utter stupidity (my words).
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Good luck with that 'constitution' thing..:yesnod::yesnod:;)
 
Jaybird180 said:
The policy is owned by the club. I am a member and according to the broker, satisfies the definition of named insured.

The biggest hit I would be exposed to (as I understand it) is the deductible, which is $1,000. I feel this is an acceptable risk if that's all the risk I have. The constitution also shields a pilot from liability until all investigations have been complete and the pilot found guilty of complete and utter stupidity (my words).
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When I was renting and leasing I read their policies very carefully. My concern became the personal liability as the pilot. The insurance policy in my cases covered the legal entity for liability (club, FBO, etc.), the hull, and $100K per seat as long as you were a member, checked out, etc.

My fear was having a problem, maybe making a perfect emergency landing, and on the rollout hitting someones 1932 Duesenberg. Now the Duesenberg owner/insurer sues me personally as the pilot and the owner (club, FBO, etc.) of the aircraft. Their insurance covers them, I am in a civil suit without insurance (and their lawyers) directly responsible for me. At this point the $1000 dollar hull deductible is nothing.

That's why I bought the $200 insurance.
 
Jaybird180 said:
The policy is owned by the club. I am a member and according to the broker, satisfies the definition of named insured.
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You check that with your own attorney's review of a copy of the club policy.

he biggest hit I would be exposed to (as I understand it) is the deductible, which is $1,000. I feel this is an acceptable risk if that's all the risk I have. The constitution also shields a pilot from liability until all investigations have been complete and the pilot found guilty of complete and utter stupidity (my words).
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Liability to the club, perhaps, but not from third parties like passengers or the farmer whose field you tear up. And you might want to bring that club's constitution along with the insurance policy to the meeting with your attorney.
 
Jaybird180 said:
The policy is owned by the club. I am a member and according to the broker, satisfies the definition of named insured.

The biggest hit I would be exposed to (as I understand it) is the deductible, which is $1,000. I feel this is an acceptable risk if that's all the risk I have. The constitution also shields a pilot from liability until all investigations have been complete and the pilot found guilty of complete and utter stupidity (my words).
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If you think that's true, I want some of what you're smoking!

As far as liability goes, you are on the hook the minute somebody decides to sue you, until either the suit is dismissed, settled, or tried. They don't have to wait for no steenking NTSB investigations or any other investigation.

If you got the "you're a named insured" from the broker in writing, then my advice is that you are indeed as covered as if you'd purchased the coverage on your own. Just don't think that there's any constitutional protection against civil liability.
 
Hmmmm....actually I deemed the email saying 'you are covered' from an officer sufficient. Sounds like you guys think I may be a bit naive on this; you just may be right and ignorance is not where I want to be.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Hmmmm....actually I deemed the email saying 'you are covered' from an officer sufficient. Sounds like you guys think I may be a bit naive on this;
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:rofl:

you just may be right and ignorance is not where I want to be.
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:yes: And your attorney is the one to provide you with appropriate enlightenment. Take all the paper to that meeting.
 
If not your attorney, at least get it straight from the agent, in writing. I'm pretty sure that insurance sales (and agents) are regulated in MD/DC/VA so you can put some trust on what the agent tells you in writing, and at least you have a recourse if it turns out he was lying or incompetent.
 
Would an aviation atty be best suited or any guy who knows insurance law?
 
TMetzinger said:
If not your attorney, at least get it straight from the agent, in writing. I'm pretty sure that insurance sales (and agents) are regulated in MD/DC/VA so you can put some trust on what the agent tells you in writing, and at least you have a recourse if it turns out he was lying or incompetent.
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Whether they're regulated or not, if you want good legal advice, get it from your own attorney.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Would an aviation atty be best suited or any guy who knows insurance law?
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How about both? Bet you can find one. While this is more insurance law than aviation law, this part of insurance law is pretty basic, so most any general practice attorney should be able to help.
 
Ron Levy said:
No, it means the club is covered for $100K for each seat, and you are covered for $100K for each seat. Not saying there isn't such, but I've not seen a club policy yet which makes the club members named insureds along with the club itself.
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West Valley Flying Club does. That's why I was asking.
 
TMetzinger said:
If you think that's true, I want some of what you're smoking!

As far as liability goes, you are on the hook the minute somebody decides to sue you, until either the suit is dismissed, settled, or tried. They don't have to wait for no steenking NTSB investigations or any other investigation.

If you got the "you're a named insured" from the broker in writing, then my advice is that you are indeed as covered as if you'd purchased the coverage on your own. Just don't think that there's any constitutional protection against civil liability.
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I think he's talking about the club's constitution, not the U.S. Constitution.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I got a rental policy for about $200 through AOPA for $1M/$100K in liability.

It's so cheap considering the economics of aviation, that I don't know why anyone wouldn't have one.
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I got one too and plan to renew each year.
 
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