DME arc approaches in SE Michigan

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slavinger

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Hey everyone, does anyone know of an approach with a DME arc in south / southeast MI? It's been a looong time since I'd flown an arc, and wanted to go practice. Thanks.
 
slavinger said:
Hey everyone, does anyone know of an approach with a DME arc in south / southeast MI? It's been a looong time since I'd flown an arc, and wanted to go practice. Thanks.
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If you just want to practice an arc you can do that around most any VOR/DME or VORTAC, the arc doesn't need to be published. Just pick a number between 7 and 30.
 
No published DME arcs in SE MI. There is one for TVC ILS. You will have to roll your own around here.
 
DGlaeser said:
No published DME arcs in SE MI. There is one for TVC ILS. You will have to roll your own around here.
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Will they let you do practice approaches into Selfridge ANG (KMTC)? Their two ILS approaches have arc segments.

Otherwise, I'd suggest following the other commentor's suggestion to find another VORTAC (or VOR/DME) and design your own arc. The reality is that domestically, you won't see many arc segments outside of military airfields.
 
Brad Z said:
Will they let you do practice approaches into Selfridge ANG (KMTC)? Their two ILS approaches have arc segments.
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Sure -- just make sure your wheels don't touch the ground unless you have a DoD landing permit and permission to land at MTC. Other than that, military fields are generally very happy to get the operations in order to get their controllers some work.
 
KFZI (Fostoria, Ohio) has a DME ARC into VOR-A airport. It's pretty far for you but wanted to answer your question.
 
Brad Z said:
The reality is that domestically, you won't see many arc segments outside of military airfields.
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I don't know if I'd necessarily agree with that. Sure, they're not as common as straight-in segments, but I'd hardly consider them rare. While there are areas of the country where they aren't very many, to say that "domestically" they aren't common isn't quite accurate. I found many in just a few minutes of looking at random airports around the country.
 
One thing you can do is take an approach for somewhere else, change the VOR frequency to a local VOR, then fly the approach. Of course before you do this make sure the approach you will do won't interfere with airspace, use an approach with an MDA above obstacles, and do this VFR only.
As an example, take the every sick CFII's favorite approach, the VOR/DME or TACAN Z RWY 15 at KMTN.
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1402/05222VDTZ15.PDF

I now live on Fort Campbell, KY and use the CKV VOR, 110.6 instead of the BAL VOR of 115.1.
http://vfrmap.com/?type=vfrc&lat=36.622&lon=-87.415&zoom=10

I have instrument students do this approach a few times before their check ride.
 
Ron Levy said:
Sure -- just make sure your wheels don't touch the ground unless you have a DoD landing permit and permission to land at MTC. Other than that, military fields are generally very happy to get the operations in order to get their controllers some work.
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Unless they happen to be slammed, as was the case for me at Pax river the other weekend. My experience has been similar to yours; except at places like DOD fields inside the FRZ, military controllers generally have no problem giving practice approaches. The massive speed differences of mil versus civ aircraft, erratic flow of traffic, and relative lack of experience of military controllers causes them to get overwhelmed a lot quicker than civilian controllers at civilian fields.
 
Blackhawk said:
One thing you can do is take an approach for somewhere else, change the VOR frequency to a local VOR, then fly the approach. Of course before you do this make sure the approach you will do won't interfere with airspace, use an approach with an MDA above obstacles, and do this VFR only.
As an example, take the every sick CFII's favorite approach, the VOR/DME or TACAN Z RWY 15 at KMTN.
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1402/05222VDTZ15.PDF

I now live on Fort Campbell, KY and use the CKV VOR, 110.6 instead of the BAL VOR of 115.1.
http://vfrmap.com/?type=vfrc&lat=36.622&lon=-87.415&zoom=10

I have instrument students do this approach a few times before their check ride.
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Here's another one to throw at your students, VOR/DME B approach to Missoula, Montana.
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1402/00266VDB.PDF
High enuf' to likely be well above most flatland terrain and it'll test the students ability to properly brief the chart and realize he's got 3160' to unload in the 9 miles between the FAF and the MAP, quite do-able but you can't be dawdling around after crossing the final approach fix.
 
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peerlesscowboy said:
Here's another one to throw at your students, VOR/DME B approach to Missoula, Montana.
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1402/00266VDB.PDF
High enuf' to likely be well above most flatland terrain and it'll test the students ability to properly brief the chart and realize he's got 3160' to unload in the 9 miles between the FAF and the MAP, quite do-able but you can't be dawdling around after crossing the final approach fix.
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We have a good arc to play with in Jackson Hole that has some very interesting terrain...

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1402/00504VD1.PDF
 
hahah is the former george AFB. flew in there a few years back
 
Flew one of these last night for practice in the sim with ATC as a test bed for future workshops presentations with PilotEdge.

The approach is the KNYL LOC/DME RWY 21R approach from COVOK (a 7 DME arc), with the glideslope out of service.

Video of the session is here: http://www.twitch.tv/ksmith_pe/b/510592652 (sorry there's an ad at the start, I can't control that).

The arc itself starts at about the 24 min mark in the video.

I ask ATC to identify DHOME for us since I don't have the equipment to identify it myself.

The approach ends in a last minute side step to 21L for additional practice. The arc is flown initially without DME, then there's a quick demo of doing it without the DME groundspeed readout.

The mic audio is a bit over modulated, the machine had rebooted due to a power failure that evening and when Windows came back up, it had increased the mic volume to 89%, up from the 30% setting that I was using prior to that. Sorry about the heavy breathing that it's picking up. I'm not flying while on a Stair Master, it was just a touchy mic.

The biggest reminder I got here was about lead radials (LR). My recollection was that I should turn for the inbound course upon hitting the lead radial. I did that here, and ended up west of where I wanted to be. I should've, instead, turned to a reasonable intercept heading and waited for some life out of the needle. I did notice the issue after a little while and got it fixed. Thankfully I didn't start any descent until I was established on the localizer inbound.

This was live streamed to a few people who were watching (that's who I'm addressing in the video as I'm flying), this is just a recording of the session.

Subsequent videos will have better balance on the audio, louder ATC, and the ability for me to overlay plates without losing the plate when I need to click on the sim. Normally I run the plates on a second screen but since I was only streaming my primary screen, I was moving the plates over to that window which was slowing me down in my ability to brief and cross check the plate.
 
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