District employee using school plane for vacation

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by benyflyguy, Nov 19, 2022.

  1. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    3,549
    Location:
    NEPA

    Display name:
    benyflyguy
  2. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    15,336
    Location:
    mass fla

    Display name:
    ron keating
    Usually the school would work with a flight school ,rather than the expense of owning an airplane. I’ve heard of schools owning an airplane for maintenance classes,not usually in annual or flying condition.
     
  3. aggie06

    aggie06 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    Dallas

    Display name:
    Aggie
    Sounds odd, but WFAA is trying to imply that the 250 mile round trip cost $2000 in maintenance. I’m sure that was just an annual that happened in the same month.
     
  4. Racerx

    Racerx Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    2,234

    Display name:
    Ernie
    So the newly hired superintendent was influential in the purchase of the plane. Then decides it's ok for him to fly it around for family trips. Wasn't a fan of superintendents before and definitely not now.
     
  5. Omalley1537

    Omalley1537 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,250

    Display name:
    Sean
    Agree 100%. Few organizations as top-heavy as public education. And the kids and teachers suffer for it.
     
  6. fasteddie

    fasteddie Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    Messages:
    140

    Display name:
    Fasteddie
    Dang. I want to know "the rest of the story" here. Chiefly, how in the heck did this guy manage to get a school district to purchase a Cessna? That's a lot of buracracy to navigate, and a lot of hands in the pie. No one all along the way ever stopped and said, "hey, wait a second Jimmy, what's this all about again?"

    Reminds of this movie, based on a true story, about how a New York public school superintendent masterminded a multi-million dollar embezzlement scheme.
     
    SkyChaser likes this.
  7. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    6,538
    Location:
    Alexandria VA

    Display name:
    Brad Z
    $42k for a skyhawk last spring was quite a deal for the school district. I will agree the situation sounds a bit head scratching, I mean the dude is just doing young eagle flights in it it seems. And yeah, sure he should be doing proficiency flying, but not anything that could be perceived as personal use. That sort of thing is fine if you work for a private employer, it's a different story if you're taxpayer funded.
     
  8. rk911

    rk911 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    977
    Location:
    DuPage County IL

    Display name:
    rk911
    small school district, small town (pop: 11,000), everyone known everyone. i'm pretty sure the school board didn't need much persuasion.
     
  9. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    13,201
    Location:
    New England

    Display name:
    PaulS
    Fire this guy.
     
    Morgan3820 likes this.
  10. Racerx

    Racerx Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    2,234

    Display name:
    Ernie
    And taxpayers. In my state the schools are funded by property taxes. 12k a year for my 385k home. 78% goes to the district.
     
    MountainDude and Omalley1537 like this.
  11. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    19,299
    Location:
    west Texas

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    A few years ago we checked teacher salaries vs super salaries.
    The super was getting ~4x what the teachers did.
    No clue if it’s fair, but I do have an idea what teachers go through on a daily basis.
     
    SkyChaser likes this.
  12. Racerx

    Racerx Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    2,234

    Display name:
    Ernie
    My mom does payroll for the local school district. Some superintendents are in the 225-275k range excluding benefits, while first year teachers are in the 38-42k a year range. Sickening.
     
    MountainDude and Let'sgoflying! like this.
  13. Magman

    Magman Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,058

    Display name:
    Magman
    One school had an A &P Program and owned an Apache and a new 150. I still have a copy of the letter from the Superintendent directing me to keep them Airworthy.

    The 150 is unique because it can be described with something rarely seen today. FTO
    That is Ferry Time Only! Due to “ policies “ we had to buy NEW. Used were available for a fraction of the cost. If the taxpayers only understood. Probably lowest time 150 in existence.

    Same school had a flying club with a Champ years earlier. I started flying with the club. $4.00 WET. Yes; the zeros are in the right places.
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  14. TCABM

    TCABM En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,374

    Display name:
    3G
    Assistant Superintendent, to be accurate. When you answer a media query this way,

    "I get to fly the plane because I’m a private pilot," Dawson said when asked about the flights.

    You get whatever is coming your way. Then again, this is a large reason why I refuse to use the phrase “leader” when it comes to management at any level. Reviewing TEA’s aviation Career & Technical Education program, it appears tailored to either Pt 107 or AMT programs and not Part 61, 91, or 141 flying.

    https://tea.texas.gov/sites/default/files/tdl-aviation.pdf

    Serious ethical concerns in addition to possible legal concerns about. And those are things leaders don’t abide.
     
  15. Magman

    Magman Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,058

    Display name:
    Magman
    Completely different than the Military?

    One 2000 mile trip each way to pick up a Colonel’s kids motorcycle?
    Oh; that was for Proficiency.
     
  16. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2020
    Messages:
    4,166

    Display name:
    Dale Andee
  17. Racerx

    Racerx Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    2,234

    Display name:
    Ernie
    Daleandee and guest user like this.
  18. Wheels

    Wheels Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    424
    Location:
    Fernandina Beach

    Display name:
    Wheels
    Our local district has a Diamond Katana that was donated. The local EAA chapter donates hangar space and the plane is used for flight training.
     
  19. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,665
    Location:
    Alameda, CA

    Display name:
    Mike Brannigan
    This doesn't outrage me in the least. There are plenty of school district excesses to be found. Sneaking a few hundred dollars worth of "ride in a ****ty old skyhawk" doesn't make my top 100 list.
     
    Tom Wells, RyanB, aggie06 and 4 others like this.
  20. Magman

    Magman Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,058

    Display name:
    Magman
    Could the Katana now be owned and operated by an “independent” flying club?
     
  21. Randomskylane

    Randomskylane Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    252

    Display name:
    Randomskylane
    What requirements for super vs 1st year? Education? Experience? Experience in supervision? District size Etc

    maybe it’s a location thing. I had a friend 35 years ago making 6 figures as a young teacher in Maryland. Every degree she earned bumped her income x dollars. Should have married her lol she’s probably sitting on millions
     
  22. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    15,022

    Display name:
    weilke
  23. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    8,488
    Location:
    Nebraska

    Display name:
    Cap'n Jack
    Medicines that are generally helpful have "side effects" too.
     
  24. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    3,549
    Location:
    NEPA

    Display name:
    benyflyguy
    I think school districts are hilariously set up. Here in PA the whole district is run by 7 (I think) elected people from the community. Technically not paid positions. But they are now In charge of running a 100 million dollar a year operation. They are not 7 captains of local industry they know what it take to run larger companies. The croneyism of hiring some relative to do this or some friend to do that over qualified individuals is pervasive.
    They make huge financial decisions with no oversight whatsoever.
     
    Brad Smith likes this.
  25. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    7,951
    Location:
    Broken Arrow, OK

    Display name:
    SoonerAviator
    In OK, we have half the number of school districts than the state of Texas despite TX having 7.5Xs our population. The amount of overhead is astonishing. Now, many of the small school districts have superintendents that are also doing double-duty as teachers, but it's absurd. They continue to fight consolidation even though it's sorely needed.
     
    TCABM likes this.
  26. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    7,951
    Location:
    Broken Arrow, OK

    Display name:
    SoonerAviator
    I don't so much have a problem with the school having the aircraft if it's truly being used as an educating tool. However, those that fly it should have to pay a normal hourly rate back to the school district to account for their personal use, at a minimum. What if this was a regular school district employee using a bus on the weekends for his own use, or school tractor/ag equipment to till up his fields at home? Use of public equipment for personal use gets pretty murky.
     
    SkyChaser, Omalley1537 and fasteddie like this.
  27. Racerx

    Racerx Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    2,234

    Display name:
    Ernie
    And what happens if the guy piles it up on one of these personal flights? You know he or his family would sue the district.
     
    Brad Smith and SkyChaser like this.
  28. Racerx

    Racerx Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    2,234

    Display name:
    Ernie
    I do know having a master's bumps pay a good bit. Does having a master's make you a better teacher?

    A state approved licensure program, state mandated training, and a master's are the only pre-requisites for a superintendent.
     
  29. Magman

    Magman Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,058

    Display name:
    Magman
    Accidents aren’t necessary to have a lawsuit

    One of the sadder comments I’ve heard was regarding a 4 place was LESS liability than a 2 place.

    After he explained group policies regarding adults and kids I understood.

    I’ve taken a LOT of kids flying and other aviation activities.Some of them have great careers in aviation. Today I would be concerned with personal liability.
    Actions of a few spoil things for many.
     
    Crashnburn likes this.
  30. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    7,951
    Location:
    Broken Arrow, OK

    Display name:
    SoonerAviator
    Isn't that what insurance is for?
     
  31. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2020
    Messages:
    4,166

    Display name:
    Dale Andee
    Well ... they have a procedure for removing a superintendent and appears it wasn't followed. But I do agree that these changes are results of an election where the people that voted were desirous of some major changes, and the new board was quick to make that happen.

    I suspect the devil is in the details that us outsiders never get to know about ...
     
  32. Magman

    Magman Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,058

    Display name:
    Magman
    Some of the larger districts self- insure.
    Not with the Board Members money but rather the taxpayers.
     
  33. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    7,951
    Location:
    Broken Arrow, OK

    Display name:
    SoonerAviator
    Yes, you would be covered if the truck was unknowingly used. People are covered for doing all sorts of stupid human tricks in their cars, but insurance generally still covers it unless insurance fraud is involved. Getting re-insured afterwards could certainly be more difficult.

    I would assume that if a school district (or whatever piblic/private entity) was allowing personal use of the aircraft they would insure it as such. Lots of murky waters there with legal exposure and insurance gaps. Still not a good use of public funds.
     
  34. woodchucker

    woodchucker Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,789

    Display name:
    woodchucker
    I’m a teacher with a masters degree in a state that doesn’t require a masters degree. There are two potential benefits, neither of which makes you a better teacher. (1) the pay bump and (2) you might get to teach more advanced classes such as Concurrent Enrollment.

    Some states require a masters degree within a set number of years. NY is one example. I received my teaching certificate there with a bachelors and the requirement was to receive a masters within 5 years to remain a teacher. I noped right on out to Utah for other reasons, but eventually did get my masters for that pay bump. In no way does it make me a better teacher.

    But with that masters, plus I mentor a robotics team and plus I’m a teacher of a certain discipline that gets a fairly sizable annual state bonus I’m near gross six-figures. Not quite but close. I can afford to fly and that’s all that matters :)

    The superintendent gets at least 4x my salary.
     
  35. Pinecone

    Pinecone Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 24, 2022
    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    MD

    Display name:
    Pinecone
    Agreed.

    I fly for CAP. And it works like that.

    I fly Cadet orientation flights, and CAP pays. I get a reasonable amount of proficiency flying that is free to me. Mission flights are paid for by CAP (which includes moving planes for maintenance).

    If I just want to fly. Or work on a rating (past PP), I pay a dry rate for the plane and put fuel in it.
     
  36. Josey Wales

    Josey Wales Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2020
    Messages:
    20

    Display name:
    Josey Wales
  37. TCABM

    TCABM En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,374

    Display name:
    3G
    I don’t think it reflects poorly on the program; instead it reflects poorly on administrators and the decisions they make. Why a district would let administrative employees use district teaching equipment for personal use is beyond me.
     
    SkyChaser likes this.
  38. KaiGywer

    KaiGywer Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    589
    Location:
    KBIS

    Display name:
    KaiGywer
    Our school district owns a 150 and students picking Aviation career classes are eligible to fly it. I instruct in it and it’s a great deal. The students only pay their own gas to the FBO and my CFI rate. Won’t get cheaper training than that locally.
     
    TCABM likes this.
  39. Racerx

    Racerx Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    2,234

    Display name:
    Ernie
    You taking it for personal weekend trips and making the district fill it up?
     
  40. KaiGywer

    KaiGywer Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    589
    Location:
    KBIS

    Display name:
    KaiGywer
    Haha I wish. But no, just pointing out that some school districts own planes for the students’ benefits.