Discounting for age

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Let'sgoflying!, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    How much would you discount an airplane's price, considering airframe age alone?
    Do not account for model, its condition, hours, panel, engine, paint, interior in any way.
    Just a rough average, across all lines of light singles, for airframe.

    Do you think it might be $500 per year? $5000 per year?
    ie two similar airplanes of similar attributes, one is 10 yrs older than the other.
    Considering airframe age alone.......$10K diff? $30K?

    Take your mind past minutiae for this, look at the big picture. Its so easy to get bogged down by 'it depends'. Be wild; shoot from the hip on this one.

    Use asking prices from ads if you find it helpful.
    Thanks.
     
  2. John221us

    John221us En-Route

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    I would say, the closer you get to new, the more difference it makes. A year old Cirrus is going to depreciate a lot more in a year than a ‘65 Cherokee. A ‘65 Cherokee and a ‘69 Cherokeee, equipped the same and same condition are both going to be worth the about the same.
     
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  3. SEMOAV

    SEMOAV Pre-Flight

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    I have to agree here. The older the aircraft the less age matters. Sort of like when you are a teenager every year matters to you. As you get older you just forget how old you are.
     
  4. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    After the first 12 to 15 years the airframe of piston airplanes is pretty well fully depreciated. Engine time, avionics and maintenance history would seem to dominate after that.
     
  5. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Them, lets say we restrict this question to aircraft greater than 10 years old, to eliminate that variable for the most part.
     
  6. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    This is all about: I have made an excel calculator to compare potential purchases.
    It has discounts for engine time, paint, interior, panel etc.....but I am getting stuck on airframe age discounting.
    I have several aircraft to compare, ages 1997 to 2007. The older ones are usually going to have more wear and dererioration but I need to quantify it.
    Right now I 'feel' that difference is maybe $2000/yr.
     
  7. Lachlan

    Lachlan Pattern Altitude

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    I thought this was another thread about hookers. I was expecting yet another great tale from the annals of PoA.

    (Yeah, annals. As in, "If you keep your records long enough then you're considered annal retentive.")
     
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  8. mondtster

    mondtster Pattern Altitude

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    If there is no continuing depreciation beyond 15 or so years, why do we continue to variations in asking price as a result of age?

    My feeling is that the large part of the depreciation takes place in the first few years but there is a continuing depreciation past that. The numbers just get a lot smaller per year and the asking price is more influenced by things like aircraft condition, times, equipment, etc. Look at Bonanzas for example. A late model V35 still generally costs more than an S35 which generally still costs more than a J35.

    Not all airplanes follow this trend though. Look at Super Cubs for example. You can find old ones in all kinds of conditions and configurations and you can find newer ones in similar states. Age seems to have no effect on the value, it is totally equipment and condition based.

    I don’t know of a good way to account for loss of value due to age, other than that I’d be willing to pay a bit more for a newer airplane because all the little moving pieces are less likely to be worn out. For the most part I think the age generally only becomes a factor for airplanes older than the early to mid ‘60s at the moment. As time moves on that year cutoff might keep going up. In my own airplane shopping I’ve found it much more important (and much harder) to find a good corrosion free airplane than it is to worry about what model year the plane was made.
     
  9. GLMS_NC

    GLMS_NC Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Maintenance is the larger driver vs age. A well maintained older airframe vs a poorly maintained newer airframe - which would you rather have?

    It's hard to put a direct $ cost on the age factor alone. I recently saw a so-so 13 year old Cirri I would not pick over a well maintained 1980 Bonanza. And they were priced the same.

    through the years there are often airframe differences that affect price. New wing, higher payloads, etc that make one more desireable than another model. Look at Cirrus for example. Age has nothing to do with this - just model differences.
     
  10. SEMOAV

    SEMOAV Pre-Flight

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    Maybe you should look at AOPA's VREF and see how they calculate it. It may help.
     
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  11. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I thought this was going to be about "senior discounts". Never understood those - I always thought you should charge "seniors" EXTRA because they are such a pain in the ass and can't even manage simple things like sticking their credit card in the chip slot.

    But, since you insist on talking about aircraft deprecation - it's all about Bob Dole's underwear. Once an aircraft is old enough, then it's a classic, then the value goes up. Sometimes. Other times, it's still a POS and no one want's it. What it won't be is a nice linear function like $5000 per year. Calendar age is probably the least significant variable in the value equation once you get past a couple handful's of years.
     
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  12. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Whatya talkin' bout! I enjoy ****ing off people in line by writing a check for a $1.87 purchase! :D

    Nah, I know how to use the chip slot, and don't write checks unless required.
     
  13. Lachlan

    Lachlan Pattern Altitude

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    Back to sleep, Gramps. Don’t you have some clouds to go yell at somewhere else?
     
  14. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    It may look the same, and have the same name, but a J35 and a V35 are not really the same airplane. The latter has a longer cabin, a higher useful load and 285 hp vs 250 in the J.

    Although I've seen some pretty dolled up '50s and early '60s Bonanzas, the later model long bodies with the bigger engines are the ones that seem to attract the majority of the upgrade dollars for Garmin 750s and Tornado Alley TN bolt ons.
     
  15. mondtster

    mondtster Pattern Altitude

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    Yes there were changes and I’m well aware of that. A dolled up J35 is still not going to sell for as much as a comparable V35. This of course assumes that everything is identical and in identical condition, which rarely happens in the real world.

    Personally, I think the OP is over analyzing this.
     
  16. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sleep?! Over rated. I operate on 6 hours, all I need.

    Clouds? Really.
     
  17. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    What are you discounting from, sellers asking price?
     
  18. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Or offered prices.

    Identical airplanes, same TT, same eng hrs, P&I, panel- everything. Identical.
    One is a 95, the other a 05.

    No one wants to throw out a number or challenge mine for discussion's sake?
     
  19. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You're talking late model stuff, Probably need more details like what aircraft you're talking about.

    Also if this is a GA single, you're probably going to get more airplane for less buying a older and lighter one, great example is a new 206 vs a well equipped older U206
     
  20. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    2% per year after the airplane is 15 yrs old.

    A 15 year old SR20 seems to list about $140k. A 12 year old one about $170k +/-
    If there was such a thing as a '95 SR20 I doubt it would be much more than 20% less than an absolutely identical '02.
     
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  21. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser!

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    70 Year old Cub selling for 30 times what it cost new. Close to 5% per year.
     
  22. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That is very close to what I threw out in post #6 (I was thinking of a $100K airplane).
    thanks.
     
  23. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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