Difference with flying with more than 1 passenger?

RyanB

RyanB

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After having a recent 172 checkout, having been flying a 152. What are the differences of having a passenger in the back seat vs. next to you in the front seat? Do the flying characteristics change alot, or is it the same as long as your not overweight?
 
CG moves a bit aft. Performance can be affected a bit. More so when density altitude (hot ambient temps) figure in.

Make sure to do your W&B and performance calcs
 
Ryanb said:
After having a recent 172 checkout, having been flying a 152. What are the differences of having a passenger in the back seat vs. next to you in the front seat? Do the flying characteristics change alot, or is it the same as long as your not overweight?
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Are you talking about having an additional pax (3 total people) or putting the pax in the back seat & leaving the front pax seat empty?
 
Ryanb said:
After having a recent 172 checkout, having been flying a 152. What are the differences of having a passenger in the back seat vs. next to you in the front seat? Do the flying characteristics change alot, or is it the same as long as your not overweight?
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Flying characteristics will change a little but not a lot for the most part. You may notice pitch control will be a little lighter from the farther aft cg, take-off and climb performance will be a little poorer from the added weight.
Keep in mind that the guy in the back seat moves the airplane from the Utility category to the normal category, the 172 is approved for intentional spins in the utility but not in the normal so don't let the guy in the back seat talk you into spinning.
 
iflyvfr said:
Are you talking about having an additional pax (3 total people) or putting the pax in the back seat & leaving the front pax seat empty?
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having a pax next to me and one in the back seat.
 
I would recommend a CFI in the right seat with two smaller pilot type pax in the back so that you are near gross and just forward of the aft CG limit. My wife and my two kids were with me at 60 hrs in a 160 hp 172 and I would not recommend it. Like some mentioned and the same in my 10...pitch sensitive, shallower climbs, improved glides, more distractions, more Mark I Eyeballs, more sick sacks. Have fun and fly safe.
 
Honestly, the changes are noticeable, but entirely manageable unless you get outside limits. Give it a try, either with buddies or ballast. The latter will allow you to tune aft CG better, as sandbags don't complain if you stuff them in rear cargo (but you're limited to 120 lb).
 
Yesterday, I flew with a backseat passanger for the first time.

You guys are right about the pitch sensitivity on takeoff. I'm in a Cherokee and when I rotated, I heard the stall horn go off for a second, so I pitched forward. And the climb was pitiful. It was very hot and humid, so that also factored into it.

And on landing my normal flare because a bit much.

I adjusted on the subsequent T&G's.
 
I did a BFR in an Archer many years ago, the CFI also brought his two young teenage kids and we flew with them in the back, that certainly made things interesting.
 
Ryanb said:
After having a recent 172 checkout, having been flying a 152. What are the differences of having a passenger in the back seat vs. next to you in the front seat? Do the flying characteristics change alot, or is it the same as long as your not overweight?
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It does change some, where you'll notice it most is in the flare, the aft shift to CG makes it easier on the pull and you may find yourself over rotating. The other thing is with the increased weight you'll have an increased radius to the flare. Neither of these effects are grandiose, in fact it's their very subtlety that allows them to bite you.
 
Rear seat passenger is affected more by changes in attitude. More likely to become airsick. Rear seat passenger needs to be briefed on how to exit the aircraft in case of emergency landing. Our standard is rear-seat exits first before front seat pushes back and blocks the exit. Rear seat possibly has different needs and procedures for using headset.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
A bit more pitch sensitive on rotation.
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A bit more pitch sensitive throughout the entire flight envelope, including the flare to landing. Also, reduced takeoff and climb performance, and increased landing distance. If you've never flown with someone in the back seat before, I suggest you try it for the first time in something in which you have experience (providing a basis for comparison), with an instructor along to answer any questions arising. A short flight (takeoff, climb, accelerate to cruise speed, descend, transition to pattern, and land) should be sufficient, but you want to see all phases of flight. The closer to the aft limit you can get for this, the better.
 
Yea - what Ron said..

Earlier this year, I asked a guy if he would like to go for a quick run around the patch. He seems to be looking for something fun to do to spend his money on and I thought I could help... But he is a little on the heavy side. My guess: 250# or so...

When he put his weight on the step of the -35, the nose of that aircraft "jumped" and for a moment, I thought the tail was on the ground... it wasn't.

Anyway, I immediately grabbed the iPad and opened the weight and balance page, asking my PAX how much he really weighed. 300#!

As odd as this sounds, the calculation was to add 50 or so pounds to the luggage compartment. If I would have had another PAX - that would have worked as well. (Although I would have had to re-work the take-off roll for grass and the density altitude closer to GW that I like.)

But listen to Ron on this one- Bonanza's are known for the CG moving aft during flight, but make sure you know YOUR aircraft's W&B from takeoff to landing. And don't be afraid to ask anyone how much they weigh. My rule: if I think they are lying - they ain't flying with me...
 
The most important part is knowing the 'isolate' button or switch on your intercom when you can't get them to shut up and you need to talk to ATC.
 
chartbundle said:
The most important part is knowing the 'isolate' button or switch on your intercom when you can't get them to shut up and you need to talk to ATC.
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LMAO

It is true that the more people, the more questions and distractions there are. Be prepared for that especially during preflight! Don't let them throw you off your game. It has happened to me and it has happened to others.

But really this is no joke if the rear seat passengers are children. I know this is not what the OP has planned, but kids can be an *incredible* distraction. My wife knows how to use that pilot/crew/all switch!

The agreement between my wife and me is that she is the flight attendant, I'm the pilot. We position the younger kid (5) behind me because she can reach him better. The older kid (8) is pretty self sufficient back there so he goes behind the copilot seat.

I recommend one ipad per kid too!
 
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Ron Levy said:
A bit more pitch sensitive throughout the entire flight envelope, including the flare to landing. Also, reduced takeoff and climb performance, and increased landing distance. If you've never flown with someone in the back seat before, I suggest you try it for the first time in something in which you have experience (providing a basis for comparison), with an instructor along to answer any questions arising. A short flight (takeoff, climb, accelerate to cruise speed, descend, transition to pattern, and land) should be sufficient, but you want to see all phases of flight. The closer to the aft limit you can get for this, the better.
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I agree with this. I think many pilots underestimate both the weight and the CG impact. I've had more than one case where a post solo student or new private pilot gets in the airplane with an aft CG and high gross weight and immediately over rotates on takeoff--the high weight, aft cg is a nasty combination of decreasing climb performance while increasing the ease of raising the nose.

Likewise, even in cruise some aircraft are noticeably different with an extreme aft CG... One private pilot who had no problem flying to PTS standards or better when he and I were in my Cherokee 180 found it much more challenging to maintain altitude with the CG at the aft end of the envelope.

Lots of people will be able to notice the difference and adjust on their own, but bringing a CFI is cheap insurance.
 
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