Diamond da 40

frfly172

frfly172

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
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16,575
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mass fla
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Display name:
ron keating
Looking for pireps on the older da40 diamond. Cruise speeds and handling characteristics.
 
Very nice aircraft. Agree on the 2007+ model year.

Speed will be high 130s (KTS) and (in my limited experience) a joy to fly. Handling is excellent and the stick is a throw back and makes the aircraft "feel" more like a fighter (did I mention I have limed experience there).

One of my favorite aircraft. A similar aircraft (to me) is the AA5B.
 
Not sure what year the one I flew was (it was all glass so maybe a newer model?) but it was very stable both at higher speeds and in slow flight. Very cool aircraft, I prefer it to an SR20 only because the stick feels much cooler than the side-stick in the Cirrus.
Hope this helps.
 
2007 here.

As far as speed, we're seeing high 130's KTAS, not indicated, with the two-blade Hartzell, on 8 and change GPH. I think that we're missing some knots...

Wonderful bird though, super stable, well-equipped, simple. Weight-limited.
 
brian];1855446 said:
One of my favorite aircraft. A similar aircraft (to me) is the AA5B.
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Interesting that you draw that comparison considering that on the surface they seem so different (glider-sized wings vs. stubby wing, wasp waist vs. slab sides, stick vs. yoke, etc).
 
It's a great little airplane to fly. I've only flown the 2006 and 2007 models (one with the GFC700 and one with the KAP140 autopilot). Both were great airplanes, very stable, maneuverable, comfortable and easy to fly.

The only two negatives I can think of is that they get really warm in the cockpit (the trade-off for great all-around visibility) and the long wings make them a little bouncy in unstable air.

Expect mid 130s cruise speed; with the powerflow exhaust, three bladed Hartzell and cruising WOT around 10k, I sometimes see low 140s sipping around 8 gph. Not a speed machine, but a very comfortable plane for 200-300 nm missions.
 
Ron,

If you're looking to buy then be aware, like Flying Viking mentioned, that the wings are quite long, over 39' I believe. I have a friend with a DA40 and it took her quite some time to find a T-hangar with a wide enough door to accommodate the wingspan...along with "comfort zones" on either side. There are always community hangars, and that's where she kept it temporarily, but she wanted her own hangar like most of us do. She finally found one with a 42' door...still not overly generous.
 
timwinters said:
Ron,

If you're looking to buy then be aware, like Flying Viking mentioned, that the wings are quite long, over 39' I believe. I have a friend with a DA40 and it took her quite some time to find a T-hangar with a wide enough door to accommodate the wingspan...along with "comfort zones" on either side. There are always community hangars, and that's where she kept it temporarily, but she wanted her own hangar like most of us do. She finally found one with a 42' door...still not overly generous.
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You don't really need a "margin for comfort" you just need lead lines painted down for the tires to roll on. Plenty of DA-40s out there in hangars with a typical 40' door.
 
Henning said:
You don't really need a "margin for comfort" you just need lead lines painted down for the tires to roll on. Plenty of DA-40s out there in hangars with a typical 40' door.
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Yeah, we all know that gods can do things that most mere mortals can't. But 3" of clearance? Really? Some of us haven't been dealing with 3" all our lives to be that good with small dimensions.
 
asicer said:
Interesting that you draw that comparison considering that on the surface they seem so different (glider-sized wings vs. stubby wing, wasp waist vs. slab sides, stick vs. yoke, etc).
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Negating the yoke versus stick difference, the control forces seem similar. Entrance is from either side. Similar performance. Both fun rides.
 
It's a good bird. We had a 2007 for a little while. Biggest issue we had was with the rear door latch and a fuel quantity sending unit. Required the entire wing to be removed to fix.

It was weight limited. Cruised around 135 as best I rememeber with the 3 blade MT prop.
 
timwinters said:
Yeah, we all know that gods can do things that most mere mortals can't. But 3" of clearance? Really? Some of us haven't been dealing with 3" all our lives to be that good with small dimensions.
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With lines on the pavement to track the wheels on, it requires no God like attributes, just the ability to see lines and make sure the wheels are on them. It's pretty damn simple and there's a whole bunch of people who successfully use this technique. As long as the door didn't shrink or the wings grow since last time it went through on the lines, it won't this time either.
 
brian];1856143 said:
Negating the yoke versus stick difference, the control forces seem similar. Entrance is from either side. Similar performance. Both fun rides.
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I always thought stick forces for roll in a DA-40 were pretty dang heavy. She's not a snappy handler IMO.
 
Henning said:
With lines on the pavement to track the wheels on, it requires no God like attributes, just the ability to see lines and make sure the wheels are on them. It's pretty damn simple and there's a whole bunch of people who successfully use this technique. As long as the door didn't shrink or the wings grow since last time it went through on the lines, it won't this time either.
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I'm going to disagree with this. Both the DA20 and DA40 have a castering nose wheel, and it's /very/ easy to get the tail swinging.

I have my XLS in a 45' hangar. One of my hangar neighbors has theirs in a 48'. I tried putting mine in a 42' once (effectively 41' because door locking mechanisms were at wing height) and we needed wing walkers.

The only way I've seen smaller work is with the lines painted down, and pulling with a winch in the back.


Incidentally, to the original question, there are multiple generations of Diamonds each one having different feature sets and speeds. My XLS has the bubble canopy, WAAS, Garmin autopilot, TAWS, SVT, TAS, the hartzell composite prop, and trues 140-148ktas at 7-8k msl. We love it.

Older ones without the Powerflow exhaust system and the speed gear were 5-10 knots slower.

Forced aeromotive has almost finished the paperwork (they just finished the last test) with the FAA on a supercharger STC (critical altitude ~ 7300') so that'll be a game changer for folks as well. My bird still has about 19.5" MP up at 11.5k, but adding 7k is going to make dealing with hot and high days a little less stressful.
 
DavidS said:
I'm going to disagree with this. Both the DA20 and DA40 have a castering nose wheel, and it's /very/ easy to get the tail swinging.

I have my XLS in a 45' hangar. One of my hangar neighbors has theirs in a 48'. I tried putting mine in a 42' once (effectively 41' because door locking mechanisms were at wing height) and we needed wing walkers.

The only way I've seen smaller work is with the lines painted down, and pulling with a winch in the back.


Incidentally, to the original question, there are multiple generations of Diamonds each one having different feature sets and speeds. My XLS has the bubble canopy, WAAS, Garmin autopilot, TAWS, SVT, TAS, the hartzell composite prop, and trues 140-148ktas at 7-8k msl. We love it.

Older ones without the Powerflow exhaust system and the speed gear were 5-10 knots slower.

Forced aeromotive has almost finished the paperwork (they just finished the last test) with the FAA on a supercharger STC (critical altitude ~ 7300') so that'll be a game changer for folks as well. My bird still has about 19.5" MP up at 11.5k, but adding 7k is going to make dealing with hot and high days a little less stressful.
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If you supercharge, just remember, a 140 IAS will have you pushing Vne around 13,500'. I bet that ends up biting someone.
 
I'd like to believe, but I'm not convinced.

Aeroelasticity is a nonlinear phenomenon. The linked article mentions flutter is "directly related to True Airspeed." Garbage. Even on modern designed aircraft, flutter analysis can only be estimated using mathematical models or from empirical data. These mathematical models take into account structural and aerodynamic loads. I fail to see how we can "directly relate" Vne to TAS.

The aerodynamic loads (and resulting structural loads) are a function of dynamic pressure (IAS).
 
Henning said:
If you supercharge, just remember, a 140 IAS will have you pushing Vne around 13,500'. I bet that ends up biting someone.
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Henning said:
Negative, Vne is a function of TAS.
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Well, like all things, "it depends."

In this particular case, the DA40-180 Vne, as per the AMM, is 178 KIAS. The speed tape on the G1000 also marks Vne on indicated air speeds.

Diamond's flight test group also flight tested the airframe much higher than that (200+ kias), but I can't find the reference for that at the moment.

But, just to be safe, if we reference the posted flight test for max speeds tops it off 164KTAS, so still below the Vne even if it was measured in true air speed.

http://www.forcedaeromotive.com/diamond.htm
 
Henning said:
I always thought stick forces for roll in a DA-40 were pretty dang heavy. She's not a snappy handler IMO.
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Guess the one I flew was setup petty good. Not as nice handling as my old Bo, but then again, it's only a DA40 ;)
 
So if I understand correctly, Vne is 164 KTAS. I would be presently surprised if the turbo was capable of that, especially on the older DA40s


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Tmpendergrass said:
So if I understand correctly, Vne is 164 KTAS. I would be presently surprised if the turbo was capable of that, especially on the older DA40s
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With a turbo or any blower to maintain power with increasing altitude, it's not a problem, you'll be able to push through 165kts before you get to the flight levels.
 
On handling: the DA40 is the easiest to fly plane in its category. Stalls are easily handled and the only complication to learn to land it is the low wing configuration which makes it hover a bit longer high wing planes. All of the above leads to the lowest accident rates for planes in that category.

I see over-the-fence speeds of 55 kts and an economy cruise of 120 kts. It´s sweet spot is at around 7000 ft and have been flying it up to 17000 ft. Can fly on 5-6 gph or on 12, but usually she sips around 7 gph.

Other than most other planes, the one-handed operation of the stick makes the plane easy to control while leaving the other hand for other tasks or just leaning back and relaxing.

I only partially agree on the G1000 and GFC700. The combination is the best in the market and definitely a great help. On the other hand I think the software is outdated and we never know if Diamond will support updates and issue the STC for each. We have been waiting for ADS-B for too long now and some Garmin database updates are just ridiculously expensive. Not to mention Garmin´s synthetic vision, which is a simple software update and costs up to $10k.

Other than that: the DA40 is after 15 years still the sexiest and best plane if you are looking for an IFR-capable plane which will take you anywhere in the US safely. Low time pilots as well as commercial aircraft pilots enjoy the plane equally.
 
denverpilot said:
Anywhere without ice.
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That's what the DA42 is for. :D

*dreams*



The DA42 & SR22T appear to be in the same ballpark. They both have roughly the same capital (new & used) and variable operating cost according to Conklin & de Decker. (broad strokes here...)

Code: 
Cirrus SR20 G3 GTS       $163
Cirrus SR22 G5 GTS	 $211
Cirrus SR22T G5 GTS      $248
Diamond DA 40XLS         $157
Diamond DA 40NG          $124
Diamond DA 42NG Twinstar $244
 
I can affirm the diamond is fun to fly, a good IFR platform, and fairly comfortable (well, in the front anyways). I've got probably 75-100hrs in one. It's very easy to fly.

My biggest complaint is that it falls on its face a bit with some weight in it. Its very weight sensitive, putting a 3rd person in the back makes a fairly drastic difference in my opinion. Also, the wings do make it rather sensitive to wind and turbulence.

All in all, I think they're a fine airplane for 2 people with all your stuff or maybe 3 people and light luggage. Definitely want the Garmin AP. Never could get the G1000 to get along with the KAP140 very well.
 
I wonder how realistic these are (and how they're calculated). I'd like to think that a -22 G3 is my next step (in a partnership) from the DA-40 group... More weight carrying capacity and more speed.

DavidS said:
That's what the DA42 is for. :D

*dreams*



The DA42 & SR22T appear to be in the same ballpark. They both have roughly the same capital (new & used) and variable operating cost according to Conklin & de Decker. (broad strokes here...)

Code: 
Cirrus SR20 G3 GTS       $163
Cirrus SR22 G5 GTS     $211
Cirrus SR22T G5 GTS      $248
Diamond DA 40XLS         $157
Diamond DA 40NG          $124
Diamond DA 42NG Twinstar $244
Click to expand...
 
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