Derelict Airplanes

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timrb

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Tim
Probably most here have seen airplanes that have been sitting on the ramp for years--flat tires, peeling paint, bird's nests, etc. I know of a few at my home field that have languished for over ten years. I expect they're now nearly worthless, even as salvage.

Anyway, I'm sure anyone enthusiastic enough about flying to follow an aviation forum like this one would not park a plane and walk away forever, but has anyone ever encountered the owner of a derelict plane? I would be interested in knowing why people do these inexplicable things. Simply lost interest? Corporations or surviving spouses who don't care--maybe it's easier just to mindlessly pay the tiedown bill when it arrives?

The 172 I soloed in sat for some years until it finally disappeared--sad.

Tim
 
I know a few cases where they are "for sale, but I won't take any less than xkUSD for it" where x is 50% higher than market value.
 
There was a Navion at VKX. It wasn't the prettiest but it was flyable up until one year when the on-field mechanic wouldn't sign off the annual without an engine overhaul. I had looked at various other components and other than the engine it looked mechanically to be OK. The owner just parked it. I know people made him offers on it. It sat there for several more years with weeds growing up through it.

There were others like that over at HEF when I was there. Still owned, still have their tie downs paid for going nowhere.

Then there are the underutilized ones. We had a guy who was paying $125 for a tiedown at IAD. He never flew. He'd come out and run the thing up in the tiedown for a half an hour. I tried to convince him of two things:

1. It is antisocial running it up in a parking space where he's blowing on other aircraft.
2. He's not doing his airplane any favors by doing this.

I tried to convince him to just go flying it around the pattern for 30 minutes (that would be about one landing at Dulles) but no. I also suggested that there were people who'd be glad to do it for him.

These people just can't part with their planes. There was another Navion that was listed in Trade-a-Plane for years. I've got pictures of it because I made inquiries when I was looking to by mine. The guy had an unbelievably inflated price in mind which he would not come down from. I'm sure he told his wife that he was trying to sell it. The ad ran in TAP for at least a couple more years.
 
An A&P had a real ramp rat 172 tied down for several years. Faded, chalked paint and algae/moss growing on it. Another mechanic asked him to sell it to him (cheap) so he could work on restoring it. A&P ignored him for whatever reason.

A&P had a heart attack and flew west. That bird is still sitting out there (been about a year) and I suspect it always will.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...2!3m1!1s0x8838afb2fe9492e5:0xfece1f0e39487763
 
Now there's a business idea. Offer owners of these airplanes service, we fly the aircraft once a month around the pattern to keep it nice and fresh. $100 per month + expenses, less than many pay for tiedown and would keep the airplane/engine happy.

:p

(Maybe I wont quit my daytime job just yet for this)
 
It makes me ill to see these aircraft going to pot on a daily basis at my airport. When I first got here, at least 2/3 of our based aircraft we're like that. Through attrition, we're now down to about only a handful. Still, I can't understand the need to hold onto something when clearly you'll never get use out of it again. Further, you're only destroying the object that you claim to care so much about. I truly hope that when it's my time, I'll be able to recognize it and let go. I understand attachment is a powerful force/emotion though.
 
Owning a plane is 99.9% of having it for lots of people. One they are plane owners, two the dream is still alive as long as they own the thing. The dream may be impossible, but that doesn't matter. And of course the value of having the dream alive is worth more money then the market is willing to pay for the junk airplane. Never mind the current been there for years junk, I wonder what the airworthy to ramp junk attrition rate is per year?
 
flyingron said:
There was a Navion at VKX. It wasn't the prettiest but it was flyable up until one year when the on-field mechanic wouldn't sign off the annual without an engine overhaul. I had looked at various other components and other than the engine it looked mechanically to be OK. The owner just parked it. I know people made him offers on it. It sat there for several more years with weeds growing up through it.
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I looked at a Bonanza like that when I was up there doing some work for DC Water. It was parked back behind the big rectangular hangar. (Sounds like all hangars, but VKX has only two big hangars. One is round and one is rectangular...)

It looked neglected but I could dream...

BGF_Yankee said:
It makes me ill to see these aircraft going to pot on a daily basis at my airport. When I first got here, at least 2/3 of our based aircraft we're like that. Through attrition, we're now down to about only a handful. Still, I can't understand the need to hold onto something when clearly you'll never get use out of it again. Further, you're only destroying the object that you claim to care so much about. I truly hope that when it's my time, I'll be able to recognize it and let go. I understand attachment is a powerful force/emotion though.
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I would have like to acquire either the 152 or 172 that sat in the back corner of the apron. The 152 was kind of scary! Did you notice that they used the wrong thickness metal on the horizontal stabilizer? It felt like it was made out of coke can metal!

Jim
 
I know of a Navion around here that the owner passed away recently. The son took ownership of the aircraft but does not have a license and won't sell. Haven't heard back in a while and I'm hoping someone finally talked them into selling it ...
 
Examples at ONZ
Navion tied down with a boot on the nosewheel. The owner intends to get it airworthy and flying. I even saw him sitting in it once. I was told that he tries to get caught up on the tiedown fees every once and a while.

Hangar next door has a Cessna that I have seen exactly once (last week in fact). Dunno what the owner plans, but the airplane has a pretty strong list (more than just a flat tire I think) and is covered with dirt. I assume hangar payments are kept up.

Two hangars down (other way) is a Cessna that sat for many years. Someone bought it and has been flying / working on it. Seems to be a lot of squawks with it.

End of the hangar row is a Colonial Skimmer that got put away in the '80s. The owner intended to fly it again, but never got around to it. His nephew has restored it over the last few years and is flying it now.

I suspect most of the people intend to do something. Someday.
 
I posted on this a few months back. There is a T tail Arrow a few rows down from me. I finally got around to hunting down the actual owner. It was a long sordid story, involving the engine removed for repair, the old owner dying in a plane crash, the new owner getting the plane but not the engine or prop, the engine being scrapped after 3 years at the rebuilder, the prop being sold for storage fees, and still the plane sits there sans engine and prop(and accessories).

I told the owner that he owes about 6 years of back storage and I would buy it from him for the storage fee accrued(he would get no cash). He said he would call me back. He didn't. I called again in 3 weeks and reminded him that another month of rent was coming up on the plane which he hasn't paid for 6 years and that I will take it now and clear his fees before the landlord/manager had it declared abandoned and salvaged for the fee. He said the manager can't do that, and I said he can and he will if you don't pay your storage fees.

He said finally that he would sell it to me for $8000 cash, and he would take it off the airport by truck and deliver it to another field. Of course, trying to stiff the airport, and make money out of the deal. I said no thanks, I will give him $500 over the cost of the storage fees. He declined, I forgot about it, and it still sits there. I've heard that the mgr is going to clean out the dead planes in the T hangars this May. He's sending notices of liens starting in Feb and it has to be 90 days from notice to lien attachment to recovery. We'll see.
 
Planes that are well maintained and flown regularly are not usually left outside. Of the eight I've owned, none have been left outside. It's very hard on a nice aircraft and the plane goes downhill rapidly. I would never buy an aircraft that's lived on a tie down for very long. It usually means the owner is on the edge financially and maintence is also poor. Not always but usually.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
A success!!!! Quick, lock the thread and end it on a high note!!!
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oops, sorry. I was typing while this came in. I would have bought the Skimmer if I had known, except if it was the one rotting away up in WA state. That thing was rough.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
I would have like to acquire either the 152 or 172 that sat in the back corner of the apron. The 152 was kind of scary! Did you notice that they used the wrong thickness metal on the horizontal stabilizer? It felt like it was made out of coke can metal!

Jim
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They are both still here and neither are going anywhere anytime soon. At least they've been relocated from the apron to the back nine where they can barely be seen. I'm pretty sure several people have tried to buy them from the brothers that own them, but they aren't letting them go. :dunno:
 
ClimbnSink said:
Owning a plane is 99.9% of having it for lots of people. One they are plane owners, two the dream is still alive as long as they own the thing. The dream may be impossible, but that doesn't matter. And of course the value of having the dream alive is worth more money then the market is willing to pay for the junk airplane. Never mind the current been there for years junk, I wonder what the airworthy to ramp junk attrition rate is per year?
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^this. We have a winner.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Owning a plane is 99.9% of having it for lots of people. One they are plane owners, two the dream is still alive as long as they own the thing.
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These guys are awesome if you can get them to go in on a plane with you. I have one co-owner that is like this. (The other is pretty close, but he still flies the plane once or twice a year to go somewhere out of state.) His medical has been lapsed since prior to my part ownership. But he dutifully sends his check in for 1/3 of the monthly expenses every month. And I am thankful for it.
 
Yup. Same guys make clubs work.
PPC1052 said:
These guys are awesome if you can get them to go in on a plane with you. I have one co-owner that is like this. (The other is pretty close, but he still flies the plane once or twice a year to go somewhere out of state.) His medical has been lapsed since prior to my part ownership. But he dutifully sends his check in for 1/3 of the monthly expenses every month. And I am thankful for it.
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Jimmy cooper said:
Planes that are well maintained and flown regularly are not usually left outside. Of the eight I've owned, none have been left outside. It's very hard on a nice aircraft and the plane goes downhill rapidly. I would never buy an aircraft that's lived on a tie down for very long. It usually means the owner is on the edge financially and maintence is also poor. Not always but usually.
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Totally depends on where you live. There are airports around here (metro Atlanta) that have multiyear waiting lists.
 
There is an old TriPacer in one of the hangars at my airport that hasn't moved in decades. It was full of mud dauber nests the last time I looked at it in the year 2000. Still the owner pays hangar rent every month.

Henning, you probably know the one I'm talking about. I bet it was there and unflyable way back when you were here at the Valley.
 
There are a few of those at the field here. The 310 is no huge surprise. However, there are a couple that just break my heart (because I want them). One is a C-180 and the other is an early C-210. Both are sitting in hangars, and neither have moved in at least 5 years. At least they aren't sitting out in the weather. There was a nice little Cherokee 140 sitting in a hanger for a few years with flat tires. Finally, the flight school owner called the guy and offered him $12K. He accepted, and the flight school has been operating it for a few years.
 
I think part of the problem is that the owners have an unrealistic view of what their 'tired' old airplane is really worth, or not worth as the case may be. They have a hard time selling the plane for less than this inflated value they have in their head, so the plane just sits and becomes more worthless.

We have a Beach twin like this at our airport. The runway and parking deck was repaved last summer. The paver crew had to push this airplane off the parking deck to do the paving. The plane is still off in the grass and now it is an obstacle for the grass mowers to avoid. My brother-in-law is a 777 Captain with American Airlines. He contacted the owner of the plane to make an offer, but was turned down. So the plane just continues to sit and deteriorate even further. I don't think I've seen this plane fly in the past five years. I hate seeing a plane like that 'junk' up our airport. I wish there was something the county could do to make him move it or do something constructive with it.
 
There are some that have been sitting idle at one of the airports I fly at for some time now..years..

It does make you wonder why they just continue to sit there, some could be nice airplanes, especially why the owners continue to pay a tie down fee. One for example is a piper cherokee. Been sitting idle for a long time, has chipped/faded paint and what looks to be mold or mildew on it. Sad
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Planes that are well maintained and flown regularly are not usually left outside. Of the eight I've owned, none have been left outside. It's very hard on a nice aircraft and the plane goes downhill rapidly. I would never buy an aircraft that's lived on a tie down for very long. It usually means the owner is on the edge financially and maintence is also poor. Not always but usually.
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When there's a 10-year hangar waiting list, plus a fairly dry environment, plus few (if any) airports within 50 miles that have available hangars, there are a pretty fair number of tiedown planes that fly frequently and are well-maintained.
 
timrb said:
Anyway, I'm sure anyone enthusiastic enough about flying to follow an aviation forum like this one would not park a plane and walk away forever, but has anyone ever encountered the owner of a derelict plane?
Tim
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Yes I have, I bought 34V after it sat from 1992 until 2013, in a hangar at AWO.

the owner bought it, had it ferried out here, placed it in a hangar, had medical issues, and never flew it. but he paid for the hangar rental all those years.

The first day I saw it, the last day I saw it
 

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I recently purchased a C150 that had sat up since 2006 and flown very little since 1996. A prebuy, ferry permit, and extensive annual, my daughter and I are currently working on our PPL in it. Hopefully another success story for a little plane being resurrected. It had spent a majority of time sitting on a ramp tied down. Structurally it is sound and no corrosion. Will have to spend a little $ due to interior plastic being brittle and busted up, but who cares, I'm finally living a dream. I'll slowly bring it back into shape over time.

I could see the heart break in the gentleman's eyes when we finally exchanged funds and signed papers. He was hanging on to the hope that he would be flying again and was valuing the aircraft accordingly. I could only think to myself that this could be me in another 20-30 years. It took me close to a year to get the gentleman to realize how much work would have to be done to it. In his eyes he truly thought for a few hundred bucks it would be airworthy. I just stayed in touch and reminded him of my offer. I think reality set in and he realized I would fix her up and the mission I had planned for her. Sometimes you have to realize just how emotionally attached people can become to things. I'm sure I'll go through some of the same when the time comes.
 
I have a good friend who's older and unfortunately lost his medical. He owns a Beech Baron that's a cherry, a C-170 with 180h.p. upgrade, a C-172 that would make a great IFR trainer, and a cherokee 140 he bought just for a fix up and sell project. I bought my C-180 from him.

All of them are hangar-ed right here at 11R. I see them often.

Old friend has money. He never talks about selling any of them. Maybe the Cherokee ... :dunno:

.
 
For a lot of theses owners, money isn't usually the issue, it's time, medical or mental issues. My dad parked his 182 in 1980, it had 230 hours on it and the recession was in full swing, he was working 6 days a week and taking care of the farm on Sunday. It sat until 1984, when I started flying. He had several offers on it, but it was paid for and he thought he'd fly again, he hasn't, so far. The two guys I bought my 182 from, one was late 70's, he has several airplanes and doesn't fly them himself anymore, his partner is late 40's with about 100 hours and scared himself and decided not to fly. The younger partner pushed the sale, he did not want to be tempted to fly again, otherwise the older gentleman would still have it tucked in the hangar.:rolleyes:
There is a boat next to ours in Destin, 36-38 ft Sea Ray, twin diesels, the lines have barnicles growing on them, it hasn't moved in 3 years. The owner has some work done on it occasionally, but I think I've seen it out of the slip once in 5 years! :nono: He has the money, he's a pilot! :D
 
N747JB said:
There is a boat next to ours in Destin, 36-38 ft Sea Ray, twin diesels, the lines have barnicles growing on them, it hasn't moved in 3 years. The owner has some work done on it occasionally, but I think I've seen it out of the slip once in 5 years! :nono: He has the money, he's a pilot! :D
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Here's a new one: "I forgot I owned it."
 
I've forgot that I owned a few things over the years, mostly small items or tools I never used, not sure how you forget a boat! :rofl: The dockage fees may be more than the boat is worth! Two years at $50 per night transient rate is $36K in dockage for a boat that hasn't been used in 2 years? :dunno: Maybe he had a monthly agreement for $4-500 and only owes $10K! :D

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Here's a new one: "I forgot I owned it."
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timrb said:
Probably most here have seen airplanes that have been sitting on the ramp for years--flat tires, peeling paint, bird's nests, etc. I know of a few at my home field that have languished for over ten years. I expect they're now nearly worthless, even as salvage.

Anyway, I'm sure anyone enthusiastic enough about flying to follow an aviation forum like this one would not park a plane and walk away forever, but has anyone ever encountered the owner of a derelict plane? I would be interested in knowing why people do these inexplicable things. Simply lost interest? Corporations or surviving spouses who don't care--maybe it's easier just to mindlessly pay the tiedown bill when it arrives?

The 172 I soloed in sat for some years until it finally disappeared--sad.

Tim
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Well, there's several reasons. Like it or not aircraft ownership has always been an 'old man's' game due to cost and earnings issues. It used to be many owners died owning the aircraft and it was kept for sentimental reasons, and by the time they decide to sell, the plane is in un sellable condition, and usually it will cost too much to get it in shape for sale, so it basically died with the owner.
 
I made an offer on a Luscombe in January of 2013. I offered the 86 year old owner his asking price, and he turned me down. He told me the for sale sign is only there to make his wife happy. The plane has been sitting there for at least 10 years. The tie-down is paid for through 2020, at which time (in his own words) "I'll probably be dead and my wife and kids can do any damn thing they want with it."
My interest in the plane was sentimental. My Dad flew it back in 1947-1953 (it was on floats in those days) and I have a picture of my Dad, my uncle, Jim Martin (owner of the Peekskill Seaplane Base) and I standing along side of it.
I hate to see something like that going into the weeds.
 
Shepherd said:
I made an offer on a Luscombe in January of 2013. I offered the 86 year old owner his asking price, and he turned me down. He told me the for sale sign is only there to make his wife happy. The plane has been sitting there for at least 10 years. The tie-down is paid for through 2020, at which time (in his own words) "I'll probably be dead and my wife and kids can do any damn thing they want with it."
My interest in the plane was sentimental. My Dad flew it back in 1947-1953 (it was on floats in those days) and I have a picture of my Dad, my uncle, Jim Martin (owner of the Peekskill Seaplane Base) and I standing along side of it.
I hate to see something like that going into the weeds.
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Well, there is one way to get it onto the market...
 
Luscombes are notorious for having corrosion problems if left outside. So bad that many are no longer airworthy. Your longing for it may be in vain. I owned an A model. 65 hp. Fun but not nearly as much fun as the F. With 90 hp. Much more fun to fly. Great airplanes and easy to fly.
 
Shepherd said:
I made an offer on a Luscombe in January of 2013. I offered the 86 year old owner his asking price, and he turned me down. He told me the for sale sign is only there to make his wife happy. The plane has been sitting there for at least 10 years. The tie-down is paid for through 2020, at which time (in his own words) "I'll probably be dead and my wife and kids can do any damn thing they want with it."
My interest in the plane was sentimental. My Dad flew it back in 1947-1953 (it was on floats in those days) and I have a picture of my Dad, my uncle, Jim Martin (owner of the Peekskill Seaplane Base) and I standing along side of it.
I hate to see something like that going into the weeds.
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Grrrrrrrrr. These are the stories that just pizz me off no end. I gotta respect the old guy, as he owns it, and he can do what he wants with it but it baffles me when he knows the plane could live on in better condition and better utility than he's giving it but still won't budge. That's just mean.
 
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