depression, counseling, etc.

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I've not been diagnosed with anything, but have been dealing with a lot of emotional issues from an abusive childhood, learning that my father abused my sister sexually, questioning my faith/religion, questions about God, etc. I know it would do me good to talk to a doctor or counselor, but also fear losing the ability to fly.

Advice? How does a diagnosis of depression affect ones' flying status or the ability to get a 3rd class medical? Are there any prescriptions for mild depression that aren't on the FAA's "no-no" list?

I come up for my next Medical exam by 12/31, so I'm obviously concerned and would like to know the facts before seeking help.

Thanks.
 
Unregistered said:
I've not been diagnosed with anything, but have been dealing with a lot of emotional issues from an abusive childhood, learning that my father abused my sister sexually, questioning my faith/religion, questions about God, etc. I know it would do me good to talk to a doctor or counselor, but also fear losing the ability to fly.

Advice? How does a diagnosis of depression affect ones' flying status or the ability to get a 3rd class medical? Are there any prescriptions for mild depression that aren't on the FAA's "no-no" list?

I come up for my next Medical exam by 12/31, so I'm obviously concerned and would like to know the facts before seeking help.

Thanks.

I don't know the answers to your other questions (whether talking to a counselor must be disclosed to the FAA), but... the AOPA's web site has a medical section, and it shows that NO drugs used for treating depression are currently on the FAA's "OK List".

That being said, you've got some tough stuff you're dealing with, and if you need to talk to somebody, go ahead and do it, even if you can't fly for a while. You'll carry this load with you for the rest of your life, and the stress of it could affect your health and mental well-being in other ways.

Hang in there...
 
I'm out of my league on medical related stuff like this so I'll leave that to the experts.

One bit of advice though: I forget the actual wording Doc Bruce (AME) uses but basically: Correct priorities are health first, aviating second. He even said that on things that were likely if not certainly medically disqualifying.

If you're an AOPA member, you might try calling the medical people there or post this on the AOPA webboard where Doc Bruce is currently answering posts. He calls it like it really is even if the answer isn't the one you want. If anyone can get you a definitive answer, it's him or if he can't, he'll know which way to point you.


P.S. for Doc Bruce: If you're reading this, you're truly missed over here. I hope you reconsider and come back to POA eventually. This place isn't the same without you.
 
fgcason said:
P.S. for Doc Bruce: If you're reading this, you're truly missed over here. I hope you reconsider and come back to POA eventually. This place isn't the same without you.

AMEN! (Why did he leave!?)
 
Hey we are not professional help but if someone needs to talk, we can all be PM'd, pick one of us.
 
Unregistered said:
Advice? How does a diagnosis of depression affect ones' flying status or the ability to get a 3rd class medical? Are there any prescriptions for mild depression that aren't on the FAA's "no-no" list?

A diagnosis of "Depression" is not good with the FAA, and once the tag is applied would probably take a letter from a psychiatrist saying no medicines were needed, it is under control, no suicidal tendencies and such. I think "Depression" is very much overdiagnosed. Depression is a very specific diagnosis. Those people cannot experience any enjoyment, they don't smile spontaneously. Just talking with a truly depressed person makes me feel kind of heavy, sad, oppressed. Many people have situational stresses or sadness. These people don't enjoy life as much as they could but can still appreciate a beautiful sunset(when they have the energy to look), belly laugh at a friends joke, and have fun at a birthday party. The FAA is better with that. It still doesn't accept any medication treatments because that implies actual depression. Situational things can be improved by altering the situation. Counselling can help to show the way to do that. A letter from the counsellor saying there a situational stresses improved with counselling, no meds needed etc. would still be good to bring to the AME.

Barb
 
Barb is on the right track -- you do not want a diagnosis of "depression" in your record. At the same time, you do not want to let issues like these go untreated. But if you have an understanding counselor, you can get the help you need without using one of the "bad words" in the diagnosis. let me tell you a little story about that...

In 1981, while in the Air Force, I felt some tingling in my shoulder. I was examined by the squadron’s assigned flight surgeon, who turned me over to an orthopedist on a visit from the big USAF medical center. X-rays, physical exam, and he writes "Spondylosis" in my medical record (it's all Greek to me -- even if it's in Latin). He gives me some exercises to do, and in less than a month the symptoms are gone, never to return. Unfortunately, while this guy is a board-certified orthopod, he’s new to the Air Force, and doesn't know he's supposed to discuss things with the flight surgeon any time a flyer is examined. The flight surgeon didn’t bother to follow up. My record goes back in the records room, and that's that. I'm happy, I'm flying, life is good (or at least as good as it can be in Clovis, NM).


Six months later, my flight surgeon happens to review my medical record. "Spondylosis"? OHMIGAWD! That's unwaiverably and permanently grounding. Panic and consternation (not to mention irresponsibility -- the flight surgeon is supposed to immediately review anything anyone puts in a flyer's medical record, but that's another story). Levy's grounded, and the wing commander is in the hospital commander's face over how one of his crewmembers could have been allowed to fly for six months with a grounding medical condition. (Had there been an accident, this would have come out, and the wing and squadron commanders would have been barbecued.) They compromise -- send Levy to the big USAF medical center for another consult, this time with a neurosurgeon.


More X-rays, more examinations, more tests. Fortunately, this particular neurosurgeon is a wily old colonel and a rated flight surgeon, wise to the ways of both the Air Force and fighter pilots. He looks at all the data and says, "Well, you really can't tell spondylosis from mild degenerative joint disease without going inside your neck, and that's pretty risky and pretty pointless since the condition is asymptomatic and not progressing noticeably. The difference is that while spondylosis is grounding, DJD isn't. So I'm going to rewrite the diagnosis as mild DJD and you're back on flying status." So after ten days grounded, I'm flying again, all's well, etc.


No problem, right? Guess what. That damn fool squadron flight surgeon, in reviewing the medical record, noted that I got a Class II FAA Medical last time I took my annual USAF flight physical. Suddenly, this guy is conscientious -- at the same time he grounds me and wraps the Air Force around the axle, and without telling me, he writes the FAA a letter telling THEM I've got spondylosis. About two months later, after the USAF situation was resolved I get a letter from ol' Audie Davis, MD (long-time chief FAA flight surgeon) telling me to send back my Class II FAA Medical Certificate because of the spondylosis. Another two months of back-and-forth between the neurosurgeon, the flight surgeon, me, and Audie before it's straightened out.


I was fortunate -- it didn't cost me a dime to resolve the situation, but had I been a civilian, the costs would have been in the thousands (thanks, taxpayers). But the point is that if you write or say the wrong words, it could be a nightmare getting it straightened out.


Oh, yeah -- I did get even with that bone-head flight surgeon. He was supposed to fly in our F-111's at least six times a half in order to keep his flight status and flight pay. He was deathly afraid of flying in fighters, and tried bagging flights on medevac C-141's that passed through in order to log his time. As Chief of Training for the squadron, I carefully documented this. He claimed the squadron didn't offer him enough flights, so they only put him on probationary status. We then had the squadron schedulers document their attempts to get him on the schedule for the next six months -- weekly calls asking when he was available to fly, calls to say flights were available and which would he like, etc. At the end of six months he hadn't flown once, and it was good-bye flight pay for him. GOTCHA!

So go ahead and talk with the counselor, but make sure s/he understands up front that you can't stand to have the word "depression" in your record. If that counselor can treat you with that understanding, you can be perfectly honest on your next medical application about your visit to this "health professional," saying you were receiving "counseling" for "family stress" or something like that -- and keep the AME in the loop on what's being said so the counselor doesn't use some other "bad word" in the records.
 
Thanks, everybody... GREAT advice.

I'm able to laugh and smile, so I appreciated Barb's post, and Ron's story, too, and the other posts as well. I'll get the help I need to deal with the family crap (thank God my HOME family isn't nuts, just the extended people).

You're all great.... I'm gonna go camp outside Dave's house, since he's so willing to talk and help. You da' man, Mr. Taylor.
 
Ron is very right. Go get help, tell the counselor up front that depression is a bad diagnosis for you and why. Sometimes paperwork can be made to say what it needs to say...

I'm talking with a counselor right now who suggested situational depression and I told her why that was a bad deal for me. She assured me that we could handle it without meds (because they don't usually help with situational according to her) and without it being on my record. It sounds like if you're depressed, it's situational. Not that I'm a shrink, but depression caused by the circumstances you're in is usually situational.

Keep the chin up with the medical, get the help you need and just make sure they know up front why you "can't be depressed."
 
Unregistered said:
I've not been diagnosed with anything, but have been dealing with a lot of emotional issues from an abusive childhood, learning that my father abused my sister sexually, questioning my faith/religion, questions about God, etc. I know it would do me good to talk to a doctor or counselor, but also fear losing the ability to fly.

Advice? How does a diagnosis of depression affect ones' flying status or the ability to get a 3rd class medical? Are there any prescriptions for mild depression that aren't on the FAA's "no-no" list?

I come up for my next Medical exam by 12/31, so I'm obviously concerned and would like to know the facts before seeking help.

Thanks.

I know I am late, and just echoing what everyone else said here, but its that important...if you have a medical issue that could cause serious problems later in life - get it fixed. Its 100 times better than the alternative.

sidenote: if we can't Doc Bruce back, perhaps we can find another AME with useful knowledge....I just noticed our severe lack of medical professionals here (if I missed anyone, no offense).
 
> But the point is that if you write or say the wrong words, it could be a nightmare
> getting it straightened out.


I act a bit more bluntly w/docs. I tell'm, "Gimme you pen(s). No writing until was
*discuss* what diagnosis code you intend to use (to get paid)."

>> If you pay for counseling out of pocket and don't use insurance, no one ever has
>> to know

My name is John Doe. Yes, really. No, I don't have insurance. Really.
 
Actually, I kinda like Rainsux's approach to this. If, however, all you have is "talk therapy" it's reportable and not an issue so long as the AME thinks you're okay. Adda med, however, and it a lot of work, and a lot of $$s to maybe be able to maintain certification.

So go find an at least Masters' degree'd counselor and have at. Just watch the meds.
 
Actually, I kinda like Rainsux's approach to this. If, however, all you have is "talk therapy" it's reportable and not an issue so long as the AME thinks you're okay. Adda med, however, and it a lot of work, and a lot of $$s to maybe be able to maintain certification.

So go find an at least Masters' degree'd counselor and have at. Just watch the meds.

I guess I better make sure I understand this, Dr. Bruce.

My wife and I have a therapist. Here's his credentials: PhD, LMFT, CHT. My wife and I have seen him for marriage counseling. No therapy, no analysis, no drugs, no ink blots or tapping. Just talking about communications issues and techniques. His time was billed to my HSA account specifically as counseling. I have also used him a couple of times as a consultant regarding professional interpersonal relationships with my employees. Again billed as counseling.

Does the FAA need to know about this?

And while we are on the subject, I had a root canal and a crown two years ago. The cause was a cracked tooth. No infection, no drugs other than local shots. Do I report that?
 
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I've had a similar situation. Because marriage counselling was one of the "exemptions" (at the time) on the form, I did not report it. I don't know if it's still an exemption on the current form.
 
I guess I better make sure I understand this, Dr. Bruce.

My wife and I have a therapist. Here's his credentials: PhD, LMFT, CHT. My wife and I have seen him for marriage counseling. No therapy, no analysis, no drugs, no ink blots or tapping. Just talking about communications issues and techniques. His time was billed to my HSA account specifically as counseling. I have also used him a couple of times as a consultant regarding professional interpersonal relationships with my employees. Again billed as counseling.

Does the FAA need to know about this?
No it need NOT be reported.
And while we are on the subject, I had a root canal and a crown two years ago. The cause was a cracked tooth. No infection, no drugs other than local shots. Do I report that?
I report these, but nobody is going after you if you don't. The question says "healthcare providers" or some such.
 
I've not been diagnosed with anything, but have been dealing with a lot of emotional issues from an abusive childhood, learning that my father abused my sister sexually, questioning my faith/religion, questions about God, etc. I know it would do me good to talk to a doctor or counselor, but also fear losing the ability to fly.

Advice? How does a diagnosis of depression affect ones' flying status or the ability to get a 3rd class medical? Are there any prescriptions for mild depression that aren't on the FAA's "no-no" list?

I come up for my next Medical exam by 12/31, so I'm obviously concerned and would like to know the facts before seeking help.

Thanks.

Why not do it off the books, pay cash, no last name?
 
Wow, what a gem. This thread contains a link to Dr. Bruce's very first resignation from the board.
:D

As my grandfather told me when I was shaking off my nerves just before I walked down the aisle at my wedding, "Cheer up son, there are worse days coming!"
 
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