Deferral Risk from Past Marijuana Use?

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Tougebmv69

Filing Flight Plan
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Tougebmv
Hello everyone!

I would like to start off with that I know and strongly believe that marijuana has ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE in the cockpit or aviation and NEVER SHOULD.
With that out of the way, I am writing here from a place of vulnerability, when I was in my first year of college and nearing the end of my semester, I started smoking marijuana recreationally daily for a time period of about a month (for reference, I am from beautiful sunny Southern California), mainly socially with friends, during this time period, I had a doctors appointment where I informed my doctor that hey this is currently what I’m doing that could affect my health, back then, now slightly over 2 years ago, I had no intentions of ever becoming a pilot, but about a year ago Is when I realized my dream.

I recently learned that at that doctors meeting, in the notes for that appointment, he put “smokes thc daily”….

I was planning on starting my flight training in August of this year now that I have enough money saved up to get me most of the way to my CFI license. So basically, I was wondering, if I go and get my first class medical license, am I going to get deferred for “substance dependence”, or “substance abuse” and should I just give up this dream now?

Thank you everybody in advance! Also for reference, I have never and will never drink alcohol in my lifetime and I have never used any other substances. I also understand that the correct thing to do regarding this would be scheduling a consult with an AME or aviation lawyer, but those things do take time.
 
An AME can answer your questions, but I'd like to point out that there is no need to start with a 1st class medical. A 3rd class medical will meet your needs until you are ready to fly for hire. Even a CFI does not need anything higher.
 
Tougebmv69 said:
Hello everyone!

I would like to start off with that I know and strongly believe that marijuana has ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE in the cockpit or aviation and NEVER SHOULD.
With that out of the way, I am writing here from a place of vulnerability, when I was in my first year of college and nearing the end of my semester, I started smoking marijuana recreationally daily for a time period of about a month (for reference, I am from beautiful sunny Southern California), mainly socially with friends, during this time period, I had a doctors appointment where I informed my doctor that hey this is currently what I’m doing that could affect my health, back then, now slightly over 2 years ago, I had no intentions of ever becoming a pilot, but about a year ago Is when I realized my dream.

I recently learned that at that doctors meeting, in the notes for that appointment, he put “smokes thc daily”….

I was planning on starting my flight training in August of this year now that I have enough money saved up to get me most of the way to my CFI license. So basically, I was wondering, if I go and get my first class medical license, am I going to get deferred for “substance dependence”, or “substance abuse” and should I just give up this dream now?

Thank you everybody in advance! Also for reference, I have never and will never drink alcohol in my lifetime and I have never used any other substances. I also understand that the correct thing to do regarding this would be scheduling a consult with an AME or aviation lawyer, but those things do take time.
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You should very carefully read the Medxpress form and the INSTRUCTIONS and then consider how you will truthfully answer the specific questions that are asked. Then, since this will be your first medical, you should schedule a CONSULTATION with a well-regarded local AME.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
An AME can answer your questions, but I'd like to point out that there is no need to start with a 1st class medical. A 3rd class medical will meet your needs until you are ready to fly for hire. Even a CFI does not need anything higher.
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A lot of schools and training programs recommend or require getting a 1st class to start out, just to ensure you can if that is your goal. You'd hate to invest all that money getting to ATP just to find out you have a hidden heart irregularity or something that disqualifies a 1st class medical.
 
The application asks about drug use within two years. Answer what is asked. Unless you had an incident involving driving, you failed a drug test, or you ended up in treatment, it's a yawner with the passage of time.
 
@flyingron is correct.

1. The cut off is the last 2 yrs. Don’t volunteer anything that is not specifically required by the form.
2. I’d definitely start off with the 1st class, just to help you manage expectations. If you don’t qualify, then it’s best to know now & not at the end of your ATP or whatever. Schools want your money. They’re not going to warn you beforehand you spend thousands that they don’t think you’ll clear a medical or background issue.
3. I’d always advise an informational medical to discuss meds & details before filling out the form at the FAA & getting a “real” medical appointment.
4. Too late now, but there is an anonymous forum here to discuss sensitive matters like healthcare without fear of repercussions. You’ve already outed yourself.

thepilotlawyer.com

FAA Medical and Marijuana Use

Are you concerned about your FAA Medical and Marijuana Use? If so, be sure you're aware of the FAA's nuanced definition of "substance abuse."
thepilotlawyer.com thepilotlawyer.com
 
A small point, but note that you have to disclose any visits to a medical provider in the past 3 years.

Did you see your doctor specifically to talk about cannabis usage? If that was the reason you'd have to disclose that. You might want to wait until 3 years have gone by since you would not have to list that visit. You might invite some scrutiny if you listed the reason for the visit as "to talk about my pot usage." And, if you put something else as the reason for the visit... Well, that could fly under the radar, but if something came up and the FAA wanted to see the physician's note, and the reason for the visit was coded as cannabis usage or something such, well, the problem is that the FAA just caught you in a lie so it won't matter whether or not you have any meaningful problems with cannabis because, well, you lied and the FAA caught you lying...

On the other hand, if you just came in for a "general physical" or, literally anything else and that was the reason for the visit, but the doc just documented what you said about your usage at that time, then you could document the visit and the reason. You are not required to report the cannabis usage since it was over two years ago. All would be fine even if the FAA somehow ended up reviewing the note because, well, you haven't used in over two years and you honestly listed the reason for the visit.

Again, all of this assumes explicitly that you only smoked that month or so two years ago, have been completely, not "kinda" abstinent and have no other skeletons in the closet. I would meet with an AME-don't submit your medXpress application until after he/she has reviewed everything and given you his opinion.

I don't think there is any need to engage the services of an aviation attorney based on what you've told us.
 
Tougebmv69 said:
I going to get deferred for “substance dependence”, or “substance abuse”
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Have you ever been DIAGNOSED for substance dependency or abuse? Any mental health issues where you saw someone for substance dependency or abuse? Then don't worry about it.

Think about how many people have a glass of wine with dinner. That's probably also in their MD's notes that they have wine daily, so what as long as they're not a stumbling drunk or have DUIs.
 
M20K said:
Think about how many people have a glass of wine with dinner. That's probably also in their MD's notes that they have wine daily, so what as long as they're not a stumbling drunk or have DUIs.
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probably not a player in this instance, but those exact kind of notes HAVE been used to conscript people into HIMS. I know at least three right off the top of my head, all major airline.

If it gets into your faa file, then it’s practically public info…
 
A lot of good info here. Best advice so far is to read fir comprehension the MedXpress User Guide since more than pot can trip you up.


Second, review your medical records, pharmacy records, diagnoses, and diagnostic/insurance bulling codes to understand what the paper says your medical history.

Do not fill out MedXpress

Find the AME in your area who has experience issuing first class medicals and has experience successfully shepherding initial airmen through their initial issuance. Pay that person to he your consultant first. Have them guide you through potential pitfalls and delays your records may indicate are likely to occur.

Be patient and take then time now to address those issues. Your goal is to get an in office issuance that won’t be later re-opened. If that means you continue to work in another industry for a year, then do that, because training will cost more than even the most pessimistic assumption you start with. There’s a reason why the easiest way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large one.

Things you can do now: take a discovery flight. Train with operations that allow you yo take advantage of a driver’s license medical if you qualify under those rules. Start ground training. Hang out at the airport. But don’t fill out a medxpress application until you know it will be issued in office.
 
Tools said:
but those exact kind of notes HAVE been used to conscript people into HIMS.
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The FAA went after the records at the pilot's personal MD? Or are you saying they reported it to the AME?

And I'd also be curious about WHAT they reported? A bottle of wine a night or a glass with dinner? I'm going to take a leap and say there's more to the story than you were led to believe.

ADDED: "...The program is specifically designed for pilots diagnosed with substance abuse or dependence, or who have had qualifying alcohol-related incidents like a DUI..."
 
After falling and hitting his head, while woosy in an ER he remember saying saying when asked about alcohol use that he frequently had a bottle of wine with dinner with his wife.

His record from the er said he said he usually drank a bottle of wine daily.

He reported the er visit, faa went after er records.

What the program was designed for was as a mechanism for the faa to use “discretion” to grant a medical in less than the 2 yrs required by 14.67.107.a.4.

You’d have to check the federal register for the mechanism to use discretion to withhold a medical for more than the 2 yrs required by 14.67.107.a.4.

The “program” (spoiler alert, it’s not a program, it’s a STUDY… it’s hidden right there in the name) operates nothing like this.
 
Where they can get you is insurance codes. Those pop up in various databases. ER docs aren't thinking of your budding pilot career, they are just making sure the hospital gets paid.
 
Tools said:
he frequently had a bottle of wine with dinner with his wife.
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Well there you go. I know my wife will have a glass, maybe a tiny bit more. So where'd the rest of the bottle go on all those nights.

That's different than a glass or two max. AND he reported the ER visit that included hitting his head and being "woosy" so I can see why they looked into it. But reporting non excessive wine with dinner to your personal MD is not going to make it to the FAA.
 
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