Death grip

[Richard]

How many of y'all started out with a heavy grip on the yoke? What method did you use to correct? Was it you or some method from your CFI which cured it? If CFI, what method did he use?

I actually got started thinking about this because of Ben's recent post. That post reminded me of the story behind the praying hands sculpture. Musicians have soft hands, I presume, and I cannot imagine Ben would have been heavy on the stick. Rather than ask only Ben I thought I would ask y'all.

 

[Kelly]

My instructor made me hold a pencil interlaced through my fingers... If you try to grip the yoke it hurts!

 

[jdwatson]

My officemate was a Navy flyer, he flew F-4 Phantoms with only his thumb and forefinger. I figured I could do the same in a Cessna 172. Having smallish hands, I cheat with my fingers near the top of the yoke so I can get to the mike button.

My officemate's technique taught me the importance of TRIM. Can't fly with two fingers if the plane is constantly out of trim.

 

[SCCutler]

I had a stage check instructor tell me that the most important equipment for instrument flight was the armrest, and if I was not using it, I was holding on to the yoke too tightly. Kinda funny, but it was a good instructional point.

 

[poadeleted3]

I went driving through a snow storm with nice icy roads, and translated the light touch on the brakes and steering wheel that requires to flying.

 

[EdFred]

Golf carried over into my flying. Just imagine holding a tube of toothpaste with the cap off.

 

[HPNFlyGirl]

If you have sweaty palms when your flying wear a baseball batting glove. When I was on final my palms would get sweaty and I would be wiping the sweat off on my pants, and the glove worked well for me. I still have a death grip though. I guess instead of White Plains Fly Girl I should have been White Knuckler Fly Girl. Hah hah hah.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Two fingers works usually but the death grip will fade away gradually all by itself anyway. Actually needed the vise grip skills tonight on the yoke for night landings in light rain at BFI for 13L it was 180-240 @ 15-26 knots with 53 knots repeatedly reported at 1500 MSL by someone. We did 5 LDGs in real nasty rocknroll before turning to the tiedowns in the mighty C150.

 

[mmilano]

i don't think being a musician with soft hands would have any relation to a death grip

2 things cause(d) the death grip for me. 1 was that i was not trimming when i should have been. my mind was so occupied with so many other things that i would not think about that. now that i have a routine, i think about it and let the plane do the work.

now the second cause for me is something i haven't got over yet. last time i did touch 'n goes with about a 13kt cross wind, i noticed a death grip. that and bumpy air over mountains still get me. i'm guess i'm not comfortable enough in those situations yet.

 

[Richard]

Two fingers works usually but the death grip will fade away gradually all by itself anyway. Actually needed the vise grip skills tonight on the yoke for night landings in light rain at BFI for 13L it was 180-240 @ 15-26 knots with 53 knots repeatedly reported at 1500 MSL by someone. We did 5 LDGs in real nasty rocknroll before turning to the tiedowns in the mighty C150.

Why were you doing this?

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Why were you doing this?

Since the early 1990s, I've always practiced it when it's doeable and I'm there first, with CFIs and then with all my students. They can see what it's like and whether they want to get up to speed to fly in it or redifine their personal limits but, either way they'll have seen and felt what it's like to deal with and survive deadly weather if they get caught in it unpredectably.

A few pilots have thanked me years after such flight training and I thank the CFIs that would do those flights with me way back then.

 

[Richard]

i don't think being a musician with soft hands would have any relation to a death grip

2 things cause(d) the death grip for me. 1 was that i was not trimming when i should have been. my mind was so occupied with so many other things that i would not think about that. now that i have a routine, i think about it and let the plane do the work.

now the second cause for me is something i haven't got over yet. last time i did touch 'n goes with about a 13kt cross wind, i noticed a death grip. that and bumpy air over mountains still get me. i'm guess i'm not comfortable enough in those situations yet.

Alright, I don't mean soft as in soft skin but as in light touch. Those fine instruments demand a deft touch.

My CFI didn't spend much time elaborating on trim. Until one particular night flight. ATC switched rwys as we were turning base to final and my CFI took the controls to reestablish for a right turn patt. Up to then I had been habitually manhandling the a/c. I had some pretty big guns and my CFI was this lithe asian fellow. Man, that a/c could climb! That was the only time he ever lost his temper at me. That night we talked about trimming the a/c. Got rid of my death grip too.

I started practicing softly pinching the yoke 'tween index and thumb. Another method I came up with was to wrap my middle finger 'round the back of the yoke with my other fingers on the front of the yoke. It would hurt to increase the grip. Later on a CFI showed me the pencil trick. I didn't need it by then.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Alright, I don't mean soft as in soft skin but as in light touch. Those fine instruments demand a deft touch.

My CFI didn't spend much time elaborating on trim. Until one particular night flight. ATC switched rwys as we were turning base to final and my CFI took the controls to reestablish for a right turn patt. Up to then I had been habitually manhandling the a/c. I had some pretty big guns and my CFI was this lithe asian fellow. Man, that a/c could climb! That was the only time he ever lost his temper at me. That night we talked about trimming the a/c. Got rid of my death grip too.

I started practicing softly pinching the yoke 'tween index and thumb. Another method I came up with was to wrap my middle finger 'round the back of the yoke with my other fingers on the front of the yoke. It would hurt to increase the grip. Later on a CFI showed me the pencil trick. I didn't need it by then.

About 10 years ago when flying small aircraft I started gripping the yoke between the horns, especially in turbulent conditions as it facilitates rapid control inputs I've found.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

I don't remember, but I'm sure I had that problem with airplanes.

I had it transitioning to helicopters as well -- too strong a grip on both the collective and cyclic. I broke myself of it by repeatedly telling myself to relax my grip. After 20 hours or so the death grip was gone.

 

[grattonja]

It took me quite a while to get over the death grip. I think it was cross countries as a low time PP, when I found that, in nice weather, I often didn't have to touch the yoke at all. If no touch required, then why a death grip the rest of the time? The logic finally got me, and I started concentrating on not clamping the controls.

Jim G

 

[GaryO]

When I was a student I added one additional step to every landing until I found it was no longer neccessary. Immediatly after my midfield check on downwind (mix rich, primer in and locked, etc.) I would take the yoke with my right hand and shake my left hand and lower arm. I was supprised at how much tension was in my left hand and shaking it would relax my hand and lower arm. It also served as a reminder to not grip the yoke so hard.
Since, as a student, I spent most of my flying time in the pattern anyway this method worked well for me. And for a side benefit, my landings improved dramatically when I started relaxing the tension in my left hand before preparing for the turn to base.

 

[gismo]

Immediatly after my midfield check on downwind (mix rich, primer in and locked, etc.) I would take the yoke with my right hand and shake my left hand and lower arm. I was supprised at how much tension was in my left hand and shaking it would relax my hand and lower arm.

That's gotta be a bit disconcerting to inexperienced passengers!

 

[GaryO]

That's gotta be a bit disconcerting to inexperienced passengers!

No problem, students aren't allowed to carry passengers anyway.

 

[MSmith]

My instructor had me fly straight-and-level for a good while (15 minutes or so) using just rudders and trim wheel - including small bank turns and climbs and descents.

At first the best I could manage was to have my hand against the left bulkhead by the yoke. Now, I've got a very light touch.

 

[Bill]

How many of y'all started out with a heavy grip on the yoke? What method did you use to correct? Was it you or some method from your CFI which cured it? If CFI, what method did he use?

He'd jsut tell me to let go of the yoke every time he saw the white knuckles. After a while, it became engrained to let go of the yoke now and then.

Letting go of the yoke is also one of the quickest ways to learn to trim the plane, and I still use that method once I THINK I'm trimmed level on my IR lessons.

After I've got it trimmed out correctly, I fly thumb and first finger.

 

[mpartovi]

I started out with a kungfu grip on that yoke. I went to Embry-Riddle to get my IR and it all changed. Being a 141 school, and having to keep their name in the green, they expect a lot; very fast. So learning to get on the controls with the lightest touch to keep ahead of the "curve" meant knowing how to control your push/pull.

If you get the chance, buy some time in the old Frasca sims. I did my sim time in both the old Frascas and the rest in the new 220 degree FTD's. The frascas are somewhat difficult to fly and require you to be ahead of the curve, just as in the real plane, only to a higher degree.

I like to think of it as a baseball player coming up to bat. They always warm up with the weight on their bat. When it comes to batting without it, their swing is much more controlled and powerful. Fly in the frasca for a few hours and see what a difference it will make in your actual flying.

Just my 2cents.B)

 

[poadeleted20]

My experience as an instructor is that it's up to the instructor to watch for this from the very first flight, harp on it, and not let up. Eventually, the light grip becomes a primal habit for the trainee.

 

[Richard]

My experience as an instructor is that it's up to the instructor to watch for this from the very first flight, harp on it, and not let up. Eventually, the light grip becomes a primal habit for the trainee.

Negative reinforcement used in behavior modification. Even when considering that most students want to please their instructors I imagine this method doesn't work on every student. What is your experience in that, Ron? And wouldn't the cut off broom handle work better?

 

[ScottM]

How many of y'all started out with a heavy grip on the yoke? What method did you use to correct? Was it you or some method from your CFI which cured it? If CFI, what method did he use?

I actually got started thinking about this because of Ben's recent post. That post reminded me of the story behind the praying hands sculpture. Musicians have soft hands, I presume, and I cannot imagine Ben would have been heavy on the stick. Rather than ask only Ben I thought I would ask y'all.

Lots of time spent on straight and level flight and how to trim the airplane helped eliminate this bad habit.

Too many times CFI try to get their students up and have them do maneuvers and so the student never learns that trim the airplane. If they did the rest of the maneuvers would be easier too.

Scottt

 

[spiderweb]

Death grip bad. Relaxed shoulders, sitting up straight, smooth breathing good.

 

[Richard]

Death grip bad. Relaxed shoulders, sitting up straight, smooth breathing good.

Hey, Ben. I was wondering when you'd show up in this thread. Anyway, is what you described a breathing/relaxation exercise you use as a musician? The relaxed shoulders part I get, but slouching or readjusting the seat back to less than an upright position is sometimes what happens on long flights.

 

[spiderweb]

Hey, Ben. I was wondering when you'd show up in this thread. Anyway, is what you described a breathing/relaxation exercise you use as a musician? The relaxed shoulders part I get, but slouching or readjusting the seat back to less than an upright position is sometimes what happens on long flights.

I've found that an awareness of your body is important in almost anything involving skill (sports, music, flying, etc.). When I'm practicing landings, for example, I often find that if I've made a bad one that isn't due to a poor setup, it is often due to being physically tight. Physical tension encourages nervousness which, in turn, brings on more tension--on and on. If you break the cycle by taking just a moment to "bring yourself back," you may find it helps.

So, along with all of the other checks, I add one more on final. Once I've rolled out I veryify airspeed, altitude, flaps, crab, and trim. I shouldn't need to change anything now until I pull that last bit of power away (depending on the plane). So I coach myself: everything's setup fine, sit up straight with relaxed shoulders, breathe evenly, left three fingers on the yoke, right hand gently touching the throttle . . . let her fly herself to the runway with tiny adjustments, relax and breathe . . . runway's made, power slowly to idle, attitude slowly to level . . . nose straight, wing down, slow count, now . . . one (let her sink a bit and nose up an inch or two) . . . two (she sinks a bit more and nose up another inch) . . . three (nose up a half an inch and hold that attitude).

Stay relaxed and let the airplane do the job.

 

[John J]

When I first started flying I used deep breathing to help relax the grip. It has worked for 46 years. Also use very small "steps" to control any kind of interruption to safe flight.

John

 

[poadeleted20]

Negative reinforcement used in behavior modification. Even when considering that most students want to please their instructors I imagine this method doesn't work on every student. What is your experience in that, Ron? And wouldn't the cut off broom handle work better?

We try to avoid negative reinforcement these days. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. The instructor can achieve that by noting when the student's grip is relaxed and commenting on how smooth the flying is, and then connecting it to the grip. You can nag about the death grip, but the broom handle is out.

 

[spiderweb]

We try to avoid negative reinforcement these days. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. The instructor can achieve that by noting when the student's grip is relaxed and commenting on how smooth the flying is, and then connecting it to the grip. You can nag about the death grip, but the broom handle is out.

This works for teaching music, too. I'm sure that demonstration helps here, too.

 

[gismo]

He'd jsut tell me to let go of the yoke every time he saw the white knuckles. After a while, it became engrained to let go of the yoke now and then.

Letting go of the yoke is also one of the quickest ways to learn to trim the plane, and I still use that method once I THINK I'm trimmed level on my IR lessons.

After I've got it trimmed out correctly, I fly thumb and first finger.

Personally, I've never liked the idea of letting go of the wheel/stick to check the trim. It seems to me that you can get a better idea of the trim condition simply by using your thumb/single finger light grip and paying attention to which one (if any) is exerting more pressure averaged over several seconds. Rather than letting go, try just gradually releasing the pressure of your grip until it's as light as you can make it. When you let go, the elevator may stay in the level flight position for a while due to control friction leading you to think you are perfectly trimmed, but once you put your hand back on and/or there is some kind of disturbance the control will tend towards the actual trimmed position. This is the same reason why you don't trim to adjust the plane's attitude, you set the attitude and trim away the pressure.

 

[DeeG]

I always used to get a death grip when doing IFR stuff. So my CFII came up with a good 'anti-deathgrip' remedy for me. There was a pilot that we both knew, his name started with an "M". "M" was kind of a slimy person; and he always had a bit of BO. One day, after my CFII telling me for the millionth time to let go of the yoke, he says to me, "I want you to think of the yoke as "M's" ***** (male body part that starts with a 'P')." EWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!

And every time I got a death grip, he would calmy say, "MP, MP!!!" A small reminder from time to time was all it took, to the point of I only touched the yoke if I absolutely had to.

 

[Bill]

"I want you to think of the yoke as "M's" ***** (male body part that starts with a 'P')." EWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!

And every time I got a death grip, he would calmy say, "MP, MP!!!"

1. Too much information
2. What ever it takes

 

[Richard]

I always used to get a death grip when doing IFR stuff. So my CFII came up with a good 'anti-deathgrip' remedy for me. There was a pilot that we both knew, his name started with an "M". "M" was kind of a slimy person; and he always had a bit of BO. One day, after my CFII telling me for the millionth time to let go of the yoke, he says to me, "I want you to think of the yoke as "M's" ***** (male body part that starts with a 'P')." EWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!

And every time I got a death grip, he would calmy say, "MP, MP!!!" A small reminder from time to time was all it took, to the point of I only touched the yoke if I absolutely had to.

Personally, I would have preferred the electrical shock method.

 

[poadeleted20]

Personally, I've never liked the idea of letting go of the wheel/stick to check the trim.

Once you get the technique down, that's no longer necessary, but as a training technique, it's the only way for the student to really see the out-of-trim condition and what to do about it.

 

[redcloud]

The saddest part regarding my exerience with the dreaded "death grip" was that my first flight instructor never let me know that it was unnecessary and actually counterproductive through 20 hours or so. It wasn't until I flew with another instructor at another school that it was pointed out. While feeling a little foolish and frankly relieved (I sincerely thought that flying was an extremely fatiguing activity and worried if I was up to it); the instructor demonstrated how little the control inuts are when managed by the autopilot and also how the plane could be controlled by just rudder, power, and trim.

The touch seems to lighten with more exerience (even with my limited time).

Scott

 

[etsisk]

I've found that an awareness of your body is important in almost anything involving skill (sports, music, flying, etc.)...

So, Ben, it sounds like I should hold the yoke/stick like I hold the cello bow, strength-wise?

 

[spiderweb]

So, Ben, it sounds like I should hold the yoke/stick like I hold the cello bow, strength-wise?

For the cello bow, I just try to have a relaxed, maleable feel in my whole arm from shoulder to fingertips--allows me to feel the bow contact on the strings.

I hope I get that advanced with flying one day!

 

[etsisk]

For the cello bow, I just try to have a relaxed, maleable feel in my whole arm from shoulder to fingertips--allows me to feel the bow contact on the strings.
I hope I get that advanced with flying one day!

Well, it's something to aim for, anyway!