Cutlass RG Opinions???

The 177 is still more capable than the 172.
I'm not sure how much more capable the 177RG is compared to the 172RG. I don't think the useful load is significantly greater, and while it does have 20 more HP, the climb isn't much better. You do get about 10 knots more speed thanks to the lower drag design, but that's about it.
Obviously i'm a supporter of the Cessna retracts, because the 182RG fulfills my mission beautifully. YMMV.
Then I guess a 182RG is the right plane for you. :wink2:
 
I've owned a 1981 172RG for 27 years and well over 4,000 hours. I use it for almost all family, personal, and business travel over 75 miles. I used to be based at DCA, but am now at VKX. I have several comments on both the aircraft and the points raised in previous posts in this thread.

1 Speed. The certificated cruise of the 172RG is 140 knots and that of the current 172R is 124 knots. In my experience with both aircraft, these figures are accurate.

2 Range. The combination of cruise speed and 62 gallon tanks (six hours at 10 gph) are the strong points of the aircraft. In nearly all wind and weather combinations, I get an IFR range of at least 500 nmi. Here on the east coast, it is common to have large regions of low IFR conditions. With many other aircraft, I would have to scrub many short flights of 250 nmi or so, simply because there are no reachable alternates. I've made many trips to the West Coast and back, typically with four fuel stops out and three back.

3 Payload. I can fill the tanks and carry my family of three and a week's luggage. That's Washington, DC to Oklahoma with one stop; South Florida in one stop.

4 Operating costs. About the same as a standard 172. There's a retraction test at annual time but better fuel economy make up for it. Almost all parts are common with the 172 and therefore cheap and plentiful. Dispatch reliability is very good -- I've only cancelled a few flights in 27 years due to mechanical issues.

5 Operational flexibility. The landing gear can be lowered at up to 140 knots and is a great speed brake. ATC wants an expedited descent in a congested terminal -- lower the gear, throttle back slightly, and come down at an easy 2000 fpm. Need 130-140 on final with a short landing at the end -- same deal.

6 Altitude. The service ceiling is 16,800 feet and the aircraft is most efficient at 7,000 and above. I used to commute to Kansas and the ability to fly well at 15,000 was good for topping potential ice over the Appalachians. One December, I flew home nonstop at 15,000 in 5:20, landing with an hour and a half of reserves.

7 Utility. I am writing this from a small cabin perched on some rocks over the water, having arrived yesterday. A late-model Bonanza or Cirrus would have gotten us all here maybe a half hour sooner, but at greater cost. Which is best -- it all depends upon what matters to you. Speed can be important -- a Cirrus can get you from the DC area to California in a single day, but a Cutlass requires an overnight stop.

8 The dreaded landing gear pivots are a problem. I've had both replaced. It's a one-time issue over the life of the airplane. $10,000 sounds familiar, but I think it was total cost and for both of them. Getting the parts was not difficult, however. I would only buy an aircraft that has had the saddles replaced.

9 Insurance is another problerm. You may find high premiums as a low-time pilot in a retractable. If you don't have an IFR rating, that could also cause problems. On the other hand, I got mine with about 300 hours, 50 in type, a Commercial, and an instrument rating and my first-year premium was not bad. Thereafter, until I started instructing students, my airplane insurance was less than my car insurance.

10 Practicality. I would characterize it one of the most practical light aircraft for transportation. It is reliable and economical -- comparable to the cost of driving (if flown frequently) and much faster.

Paul
 
From the OP...Thanks for the extremely valuable info!

Let me give a bit more info about my mission. I want a SIMPLE to fly machine for my IFR training that can double as MAYBE my permanent plane. What I REALLY want is a Saratoga, but the spouse doesn't like the huge low wing.

I probably want steam / 530, because I want to be able to fly steam and glass.

Longer term, I was thinking I would keep the Cutlass, or trade it for a 182, SR22, or get a divorce so I can get a 'toga. ;-)

Perhaps my best option is a vanilla 172 for now and trade up.
 
8 The dreaded landing gear pivots are a problem. I've had both replaced. It's a one-time issue over the life of the airplane. $10,000 sounds familiar, but I think it was total cost and for both of them. Getting the parts was not difficult, however. I would only buy an aircraft that has had the saddles replaced.


Paul

Its more like $6k per pivot without labor nowdays.

If you guys so wish, you can probably look for for SDR's against the airplane. That should get you an idea what is still breaking and how many hours were on the parts.


https://www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/...ies ignores industry input/cessna_seb90-1.pdf
 
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From the OP...Thanks for the extremely valuable info!

Let me give a bit more info about my mission. I want a SIMPLE to fly machine for my IFR training that can double as MAYBE my permanent plane. What I REALLY want is a Saratoga, but the spouse doesn't like the huge low wing.

I probably want steam / 530, because I want to be able to fly steam and glass.

Longer term, I was thinking I would keep the Cutlass, or trade it for a 182, SR22, or get a divorce so I can get a 'toga. ;-)

Perhaps my best option is a vanilla 172 for now and trade up.

You want a simple to fly complex aircraft for IFR training?

172s are moderately stable on heading. Try a Warrior or a 182; both are easier to keep stable, especially in wind or thermals. Fixed gear will prevent the gear-up while you get ****ed off over the bad approach or whatever the F up of the day was.
 
I agree I have never seen an owner/operator with a 172RG. The only ones have been flight schools. I think the R172K with the 210 hp STC is pretty much on par with the 172RG speed wise.

If you need 17% more power to achieve the same speed, that implies about 17% more fuel consumption. With the smaller fuel tanks, range will take an even bigger hit. And then there is the cost of the STC to consider.
 
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If you can't buy the last airplane first, at least try to buy the second one first! :D If a vanilla 172 suits your mission, go for it, but if you are thinking about trading up in a couple years, skip the 172. Trading up isn't cheap, from pre-buy inspections to sales tax these things add up quickly. If you think you'll end up with a retract or a 182, buy it now. Everyone says they won't, but most people upgrade avionics or something in their new airplanes, that money will be mostly wasted if you sell it in a year or two. ;)

The divorce may be a good way to keep from having to decide on which airplane! Then you could decide on which cheap apartment you could afford! :rofl:

From the OP...Thanks for the extremely valuable info!

Let me give a bit more info about my mission. I want a SIMPLE to fly machine for my IFR training that can double as MAYBE my permanent plane. What I REALLY want is a Saratoga, but the spouse doesn't like the huge low wing.

I probably want steam / 530, because I want to be able to fly steam and glass.

Longer term, I was thinking I would keep the Cutlass, or trade it for a 182, SR22, or get a divorce so I can get a 'toga. ;-)

Perhaps my best option is a vanilla 172 for now and trade up.
 
You want a simple to fly complex aircraft for IFR training?

172s are moderately stable on heading. Try a Warrior or a 182; both are easier to keep stable, especially in wind or thermals. Fixed gear will prevent the gear-up while you get ****ed off over the bad approach or whatever the F up of the day was.

I love the stability of the 182 for IFR! It definitely makes IFR easier than in a 172RG.
 
I'm not sure how much more capable the 177RG is compared to the 172RG. I don't think the useful load is significantly greater, and while it does have 20 more HP, the climb isn't much better. You do get about 10 knots more speed thanks to the lower drag design, but that's about it.

I have manuals for a 1981 172 RG (Cutlass RG) and a 1976 177RG (Cardinal RG), and it looks like what you're saying is about right:

Maximum useful load:

Cutlass RG: 1103 lbs
Cutlass RG II: 1068 lbs

Cardinal RG: 1093 lbs
Cardinal RG II: 1032 lbs

Rate of climb at sea level:

Cutlass RG: 800 fpm

Cardinal RG: 925 fpm

Cruise speed at 6000 feet, 75% power, standard temperature:

Cutlass RG: 136 ktas

Cardinal RG: 146 ktas

(The speed advantage is reduced to eight knots beginning at 8000 feet, possibly because the Cutlass has a max RPM of 2700, vs. 2500 for the Cardinal.)
 
I think I should point out that to many of us, "flies like a 172" is not a compliment. :wink2:

I consider it compliment. They're a simple, honest airplane. I did a long weekend in one last year after having not been on a xc in one in many years. A dozen hours or so, half of which was IFR including two approaches to minimums, I came away with a renewed respect for the trusty old 172. It's no wonder they've been so enduring.
 
I'm not clear on the preferences here. You'd like a 6 passenger single but will settle for one that barely cares 4? What is your long term mission? 2+, 4 or 6?

You'd buy a 172RG but would stay current in and occasionally rent others based on mission? How often would you spend money staying current in the big stuff? How often would you rent the big ones?

Your wife likes the high wing view. How often does she ride with you? Does she need the view every time she flies or only on occasion? Can you rent a high wing when she needs the view?

What is your flying budget?

I don't recall your location or main mission, which has a great affect on your needs.

Well, I'm as prejudiced as all the others, but if I were in your shoes (of course I am not) I'd buy a Cessna 210. I've had one and liked it. I flew a Cutlass from the midwest to California and back and was not impressed with it's performance - it didn't do as well as some other posters have reported so maybe it was a dud.
 
I have manuals for a 1981 172 RG (Cutlass RG) and a 1976 177RG (Cardinal RG), and it looks like what you're saying is about right:

Maximum useful load:

Cutlass RG: 1103 lbs
Cutlass RG II: 1068 lbs

Cardinal RG: 1093 lbs
Cardinal RG II: 1032 lbs

Rate of climb at sea level:

Cutlass RG: 800 fpm

Cardinal RG: 925 fpm

Cruise speed at 6000 feet, 75% power, standard temperature:

Cutlass RG: 136 ktas

Cardinal RG: 146 ktas

(The speed advantage is reduced to eight knots beginning at 8000 feet, possibly because the Cutlass has a max RPM of 2700, vs. 2500 for the Cardinal.)

One other variable is W&B. A 172RG CG is pretty hard to screw up. A 177RG is not so. I found I needed as much as 100 lb of ballast in rear cargo unless I had a lot of weight in back. That may eat into useful load if all the load is people.

The Cardinal also carries 120 lb more fuel. Though you don't have to top it off.
 
The Cardinal also carries 120 lb more fuel. Though you don't have to top it off.

Maybe we're looking at different years. The POHs I have (1981 and 1976, respectively) say that the Cutlass carries 66 gallons total and 62 gallons usable, vs. 61 gallons total and 60 gallons usable in the Cardinal. :dunno:
 
I'd be curious on the landing gear crack issue how the numbers break down on trainers vs. owner-flown. I suspect they're heavily weighted toward the former.
 
I concur. My limited experience with them is they flew like turds compared to a standard 172.

I think it climbs like a turd, but flies noticeably faster with the constant speed prop and tucked gear. Cruise in most Skyhawks is 110 kts. I can get 125 knots easily in the Cutlass.
 
I think it climbs like a turd, but flies noticeably faster with the constant speed prop and tucked gear. Cruise in most Skyhawks is 110 kts. I can get 125 knots easily in the Cutlass.

That's probably it. I was doing airwork in it, a climber it's not. 125 kts is a lot better than a standard 172, certainly.
 
If you want folding gear at that price point. Get an old Bo, Comanche or arrow instead, maybe even a turbo arrow. RG high wings are goofy. Especially the 172 variant.

The cutlass was built for no other reason other than Commercial/CFI training requirements hence some of its goofiness.
 
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