currency Question?

[ted gilbertson]

I fly a 152 and it has been over 90 days since my last flight. If I take training in a Citabria will those landings count for my cessna flying? I know about the different requirements for the two, just wasn't sure of this.

 

[alaskaflyer]

I fly a 152 and it has been over 90 days since my last flight. If I take training in a Citabria will those landings count for my cessna flying? I know about the different requirements for the two, just wasn't sure of this.

If you are talking about currency for carrying passengers...

61.57 in part:

(a) General experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flight crewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings within the preceding 90 days, and--
(i) The person acted as the sole manipulator of the flight controls; and
(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required), and, if the aircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs and landings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with a tailwheel.

A Citabria is the same category and class (type doesn't apply) as a Cessna 152. It wouldn't work the other way around of course.

Make sure at least three are to full stop and you will be current in both.

Just another example of why people should be flying taildraggers

Also, assuming you already have your PP certificate, make sure the CFI knows you aren't current and he is the legal PIC until you are.

 

[ted gilbertson]

Thank you, that was what I thought just wanted to be sure. Maybe no more nose draggers for me for a while.

If you are talking about currency for carrying passengers...

61.57 in part:

A Citabria is the same category and class (type doesn't apply) as a Cessna 152. It wouldn't work the other way around of course.

Just another example of why people should be flying taildraggers

 

[TMetzinger]

Also, assuming you already have your PP certificate, make sure the CFI knows you aren't current and he is the legal PIC until you are.

The pilot can still be the PIC - the CFI isn't considered a passenger if he's giving instruction. Assuming the pilot is otherwise capable of acting as PIC, he can continue to act as PIC while receiving instruction, even if he's not current for carrying pax.

 

[ted gilbertson]

Thanks, I was just making sure I could fly passengers in the 152 after I start my trainning. Two birds one stone.

The pilot can still be the PIC - the CFI isn't considered a passenger if he's giving instruction. Assuming the pilot is otherwise capable of acting as PIC, he can continue to act as PIC while receiving instruction, even if he's not current for carrying pax.

 

[alaskaflyer]

The pilot can still be the PIC - the CFI isn't considered a passenger if he's giving instruction. Assuming the pilot is otherwise capable of acting as PIC, he can continue to act as PIC while receiving instruction, even if he's not current for carrying pax.

Drat! Thanks.

 

[poadeleted20]

The CFI+Trainee=NoPassengers business is recent. Up until the Kortorax letter in 2006, everyone (and I mean everyone) thought that when there was an instructor with a trainee, somebody was a passenger, and therefore the PIC had to be current on landings. The Chief Counsel now says that an instructor and a trainee are not passengers with respect to each other, so 61.57(a) and (b) don't apply.

 

[rottydaddy]

Thanks, I was just making sure I could fly passengers in the 152 after I start my trainning. Two birds one stone.

FWIW, I'd advise you to take the 152 for a hop or two by yourself, first, just to get comfortable with it again. Especially if you're still all pleased with yourself for having tamed a Citabria. You may find the 152 a little challenging all of a sudden...

It's probably not a big deal, especially if you have a lot of 152 time, but it's also probably smart to not jump back into a plane you haven't flown for a while when you have pax with you. Little things can happen, like pulling the wrong knob or flicking the wrong switch. Best to ease back into it with nobody else watching.


BTW, enjoy the tailwheel work- you will find the experience useful in all kinds of flying.

 

[ted gilbertson]

Thanks I am so looking forward to the tailwheel time. I sat in the citabria and wanted to fly it so bad. As of the 152 I have flown it so much I am not too worried about it. Every winter I go broke and let my currency expire. When I fly the pa-28 thats when I really have to pay attention,everythings in the wrong place. But if I wait to much longer I will definatly take the 152 for a spin by myself.

FWIW, I'd advise you to take the 152 for a hop or two by yourself, first, just to get comfortable with it again. Especially if you're still all pleased with yourself for having tamed a Citabria. You may find the 152 a little challenging all of a sudden...

It's probably not a big deal, especially if you have a lot of 152 time, but it's also probably smart to not jump back into a plane you haven't flown for a while when you have pax with you. Little things can happen, like pulling the wrong knob or flicking the wrong switch. Best to ease back into it with nobody else watching.


BTW, enjoy the tailwheel work- you will find the experience useful in all kinds of flying.

 

[akite]

Tailwheel time, I am jealous. I can't convince anyone that my glider should count for tailwheel and retrac time!

 

[ted gilbertson]

My uncle owns a glider,from what he says they groung loop just as easy.So they count in my opinion

Tailwheel time, I am jealous. I can't convince anyone that my glider should count for tailwheel and retrac time!

 

[BillTIZ]

My uncle owns a glider,from what he says they groung loop just as easy.So they count in my opinion

Actually.. having flown both.. glider and ASEL Conventional Gear. They are not the same.. both have their own little quirks.. But not many people expect the gyroscopic effect of the propellor to add yaw when the tail comes up, plus the effect of P-factor on take off. And then reduce power on landing and get the tail down, the gyroscopic effect of that rotating propellor will introduce yaw.

That motor can add a lot of issues. Remember your grade school class, apply force to one point on the gyro and it reacts 90 degrees later in the rotation. Consider as you raise and lower the tail you are moving the top of the propellor arc fore or aft, that 90 degree effect results in a yaw force at the horizontal position of the prop.

Then add the cross wind effects, many gliders can handle a bit more cross wind before running out of rudder, and you can put a wing tip on the ground into the wind, and their side area surface has a lot less effect from the wind.

But consider rudder limitations of powered aircraft and less rudder prop wash effect as you reduce power on landing, plus needing to balance it on two (side by side) or three wheels (tail) when landing and then that big broad side to the wind pushing you sideways off a runway while you fight the ground loop.

Sure.. gliders ground loop real easy if you catch a wing tip in the grass and that can break a tail boom on a fiberglass glider real quick. Some gliders are built with glue on, break away tail wheels just for that purpose.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Tailwheel time, I am jealous. I can't convince anyone that my glider should count for tailwheel and retrac time!

I can see where a glider with a retractable wheel wouldn't count for complex time (no C/S prop) but why wouldn't it count for retract time?

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I can see where a glider with a retractable wheel wouldn't count for complex time (no C/S prop) but why wouldn't it count for retract time?

It's not an "airplane"???

 

[ted gilbertson]

I know all about the gyro affects, but we'll see how good book reading does when the tail comes off the ground. I was just cracking jokes about the glider. Oh and there still asking santa for grass at KIZA. Nothing but dirt.

quote=BillTIZ;421989]Actually.. having flown both.. glider and ASEL Conventional Gear. They are not the same.. both have their own little quirks.. But not many people expect the McMinnville, Oregon. of the propellor to add yaw when the tail comes up, plus the effect of P-factor on take off. And then reduce power on landing and get the tail down, the gyroscopic effect of that rotating propellor will introduce yaw.

That motor can add a lot of issues. Remember your grade school class, apply force to one point on the gyro and it reacts 90 degrees later in the rotation. Consider as you raise and lower the tail you are moving the top of the propellor arc fore or aft, that 90 degree effect results in a yaw force at the horizontal position of the prop.

Then add the cross wind effects, many gliders can handle a bit more cross wind before running out of rudder, and you can put a wing tip on the ground into the wind, and their side area surface has a lot less effect from the wind.

But consider rudder limitations of powered aircraft and less rudder prop wash effect as you reduce power on landing, plus needing to balance it on two (side by side) or three wheels (tail) when landing and then that big broad side to the wind pushing you sideways off a runway while you fight the ground loop.

Sure.. gliders ground loop real easy if you catch a wing tip in the grass and that can break a tail boom on a fiberglass glider real quick. Some gliders are built with glue on, break away tail wheels just for that purpose.[/quote]

 

[poadeleted20]

I can see where a glider with a retractable wheel wouldn't count for complex time (no C/S prop) but why wouldn't it count for retract time?

There's no FAA category of "retract time" in 61.51 or anywhere else. That's purely an insurance company issue, so the insurer gets to define it however they decide meets their underwriting and actuarial needs.

 

[brcase]

There's no FAA category of "retract time" in 61.51 or anywhere else. That's purely an insurance company issue, so the insurer gets to define it however they decide meets their underwriting and actuarial needs.

That is my take on it as well. I give them what they ask for. If the insurance company asks for retract time the get it all. If they ask for Complex time they get that. Some do ask for both. If they ask for airplane retract time that is what I will give them, so far I don't recall them ever asking this.

Brian

 

[jpflys]

Actually.. having flown both.. glider and ASEL Conventional Gear. They are not the same.. both have their own little quirks.. But not many people expect the gyroscopic effect of the propellor to add yaw when the tail comes up, plus the effect of P-factor on take off. And then reduce power on landing and get the tail down, the gyroscopic effect of that rotating propellor will introduce yaw.

That motor can add a lot of issues. Remember your grade school class, apply force to one point on the gyro and it reacts 90 degrees later in the rotation. Consider as you raise and lower the tail you are moving the top of the propellor arc fore or aft, that 90 degree effect results in a yaw force at the horizontal position of the prop.

Then add the cross wind effects, many gliders can handle a bit more cross wind before running out of rudder, and you can put a wing tip on the ground into the wind, and their side area surface has a lot less effect from the wind.

But consider rudder limitations of powered aircraft and less rudder prop wash effect as you reduce power on landing, plus needing to balance it on two (side by side) or three wheels (tail) when landing and then that big broad side to the wind pushing you sideways off a runway while you fight the ground loop.

Sure.. gliders ground loop real easy if you catch a wing tip in the grass and that can break a tail boom on a fiberglass glider real quick. Some gliders are built with glue on, break away tail wheels just for that purpose.

My head hurts !

 

[BillTIZ]

My head hurts !

Work a Pawnee through 30 take offs on tow and 30 landings in 5 hours with a 15-20knot 45-60 degree cross wind and a few things will be aching besides your head. Your legs will be sore from rudder work, a strong right arm for the stick, (left hand on throttle), your upper arms will be bruised the next day from slamming into the window brace in the turbulence.

But... it's FUN !!!