Curious about engine cowling insulated covers

[LongRoadBob]

Just curious. I know "reality shows" are often faking situations, etc. but have always wondered with "Mountain Men", the pilot Marty that traps out in the Alaskan wilderness. He flies a (I think it is another manufacturer) kind of a piper cub clone, and when he is up at his trapping cabin he covers the engine cowling, and has also covers for the prop.

But he has no electricity up there. So, my first thought is that after X amount of time, the engine is as cold as it would be with no covers. Maybe saves it from ice, from dew, etc. but it would equalize the cold after a while. Then it would be keeping the engine maybe even colder on a sunny day, since it insulates.

In a much later season, he did have a kind of butane warming device he put in the engine compartment some hours before he was planning to take off to heat up the oil and engine just a little.

I guess mainly wondering how it normally works with these covers, and specially when one doesn't have access to electricity.

 

[Stewartb]

Cold weather flyers use insulated engine covers and uninsulated wing and tail covers. Wing and tail covers prevent frost from forming on the surfaces. Insulated engine covers do a couple of things. They slow the rate of cooling, which is good for an engine that just shut down. They hold heat so if the pilot is going back out in the next few hours the engine will be warm enough to go withour preheating. And on cold first start? Using an engine preheater is much more effective with an insulated cover. I use propane, white gas, and electric pre heaters myself, depending on where I am and what I’m doing. I also use prop covers but less for the radiated heat loss than to keep the prop airfoils frost free.

Difference in prep time with or without covers? Huge.

 

[gkainz]

My son-in-law developed that show and flew with Marty on a few of the first season episodes. Sadly, my son-in-law knows nothing about general aviation, so couldn't answer any of my questions, and when I pointed out a few of the technical gaffs, told me "I have no control over the voice-over scripts, but thanks for the feedback!"

I can only assume that he does pre-heat before any cold weather start, and the covers are the only way to keep the relative warmth in the engine compartment. But yeah, after a few hours, I would imagine temps inside and outside the engine compartment are equalized.

 

[LongRoadBob]

Well, that about sums it up, thanks guys!
Gkainz, I'm also curious if you remember any of the gaffs. I also think I'm seeing a few.

Any idea what cruising speed his Cub would have, and range? It seemed (but not sure) that they stretched the flight time a bit, as they claimed his cabin was (I think) like 340 "units" (not sure if they said NM, Statute miles, or Km but they did say the units) from his home, and I thought it would translate to a shorter flying time than they claimed.

They also seemed to amp up the "dire cirumstances", in the early season I'm seeing now. Claimed the weather was getting dicey but the video didn't show that exactly. You remember any of them?

 

[Stewartb]

A typical Cub with big tires sees about 85mph at 7 gph with 36 gallon capacity.

Reality shows aren’t real. You know that, right?

 

[LongRoadBob]

A typical Cub with big tires sees about 85mph at 7 gph with 36 gallon capacity.

Reality shows aren’t real. You know that, right?

Yeah...I do.

I find it very funny on "survival" and this type of show how many times they say "make just one mistake and...you die" then get into all kinds of mistakes and it works out fine.

All reality shows are BS, scripted and edited.

 

[gkainz]

At this point, I don't recall any of the first few seasons at this point, as that was a number of years ago. After he got season 1 aired, he handed that show off to an ongoing production manager and he was off on another show development project.

I did notice a recent one with the newer kid Morgan and girlfriend Margaret in Alaska on their "learning to fly on skis in the hostile Alaska bush" episodes where the instructor said "pull power off" and they switched to an in-cockpit closeup of pushing the throttle to the firewall. I just shake my head and don't even bother mentioning these any more. These cut-in shots are added in editing from B-roll footage and are put together usually without close review by subject matter experts. Bottom line is, "does it make good television" ... they're not technical documentaries. To the general public, those things go un-noticed.

I gave him grief about the episode when Marty's sled dies miles from the cabin and he walks all night to get back. I said, "Come on, he just got on the sled with the camera crew and they all rode home, right?" That's where I got an education and the behind the scenes explanation and logic of producing "reality" shows. You can't have a camera crew bird-dogging the talent 24x7 hoping for a notable incident to just happen while you're there. So, when they start scripting a season, they sit down with the talent and talk through things that have happened to them, and decide what would make "good television". Then they re-create those scenes for filming, as best they can.

 

[cgrab]

I always wondered about his range since it seems like he needs a full tank to get to where he's going and would need to carry enough gas to refill and get back. He would have no useful load for his equipment. I don't know where he gets his gas when he's out in the bush.

 

[Stewartb]

You haul it in from the most convenient location. I used to keep 600 gallons at my cabin. Less now. I hauled it in winter with the airplane and with snowmachines. It’s common up here.

 

[RudyP]

I gave him grief about the episode when Marty's sled dies miles from the cabin and he walks all night to get back. I said, "Come on, he just got on the sled with the camera crew and they all rode home, right?" That's where I got an education and the behind the scenes explanation and logic of producing "reality" shows. You can't have a camera crew bird-dogging the talent 24x7 hoping for a notable incident to just happen while you're there. So, when they start scripting a season, they sit down with the talent and talk through things that have happened to them, and decide what would make "good television". Then they re-create those scenes for filming, as best they can.

So in other words, the shows are scripted, set up and acted out according to the script which sometimes may be based on real events that happened at some time. Pretty much what I figured but cool to get it confirmed with the insider perspective. And the rationalization (and that is what it is) does make some sense.

 

[Zeldman]

Reality shows aren’t real. You know that, right?

What..???? Those Alaska shows aren't real.?? My whole life has been a big waste... I am so now in the dumps....

I remember one of those shows where they were building a barn so the live stock could get out of the winter weather. It was supposed to be out in the bush way away from civilization. I drove my wife out to see the barn. I mean we drove out there on a paved road.....

 

[Unit74]

So in other words, the shows are scripted, set up and acted out according to the script which sometimes may be based on real events that happened at some time.

No... Plane Repo is real! I swear it! It has to be real! You LIE!!!!

 

[Ravioli]

I saw the Alaska Railroad one for the first time last weekend.

They show the off-grid couple waiting at the tracks for propane and they keep saying it's getting life threatening. The story goes that they were repairing the track to get to them. So as it gets darker the off-grid lady is saying again about the sun going down and the imminent danger.

I look over at Lisa and say, "If it gets any worse they'll have to jump in the truck with the film crew and go to town propane."

I'll still watch deadliest catch, but I'm done with the railroad.

 

[Ravioli]

No... Plane Repo is real! I swear it! It has to be real! You LIE!!!!

Airplane Repo taught me that the logbook was worth HALF the value of the plane. I almost sold mine for $35k on eBay, but the clown with the winning bid wanted me to give him the plane too. F that!

 

[Unit74]

Airplane Repo taught me that the logbook was worth HALF the value of the plane. I almost sold mine for $35k on eBay, but the clown with the winning bid wanted me to give him the plane too. F that!

Sell the plane, then upsell the buyer on the log books! Winning!!!!

 

[GRG55]

...Reality shows aren’t real. You know that, right?

Awww. Did you have to go and spoil it for us.

So in other words, the shows are scripted, set up and acted out according to the script which sometimes may be based on real events that happened at some time. Pretty much what I figured but cool to get it confirmed with the insider perspective. And the rationalization (and that is what it is) does make some sense.

Whether it's television "reality" or Hollywood (Apollo 13 and Sully come to mind), they have to create artificial drama to hold audiences attention. Real life generally doesn't contain enough day-to-day.

 

[wilkersk]

The ones that I've talked to, and read about use a lot of different techniques. Some guys I've read about install a belly tank that doubles their fuel capacity. Some even stash fuel and supplies in remote areas during the operating season. The bush used to be littered with 5 gallon Jerry cans back in the day. Now, they try to pick up and clean up when they find it. The big engine Supercubs can carry a lot of gas and gear if they start out from a good runway. Those blankets and catalytic heaters are essential for operating in the bush. The blankets do an amazing job of keeping the engine from getting cold soaked. At least when you're just talking about getting in a battle nap and a cupa Joe. for longer periods, like when you're waiting out a storm for days, they will spend several hours trying to preheat, even going as far as draining the oil while its still warm so they can keep it near the camp fire. I'll bet the TV show does a little time-compression when it comes to that. But in any case, most of the pilots I've talked to say they won't even try to fly when temps get to 20 below or greater.

 

[Stewartb]

Preheat time depends on the preheat source. Most of us prefer electric heat like Reiff because we don’t need to attend the plane like with a white gas or propane flame. Standing outside in -30 isn’t as fun as TV makes it look. Propane isn’t reliable in the cold, anyway, but when propane stops working I don’t want to go flying. Well, when I can’t keep the cabin warm leaving becomes necessary. 3 hours or so with the Reiff is good at -38*. I can attest to that. 1000w generators are common airplane equipment. The new generation of inverter generators are easy to take with. I still have white gas preheaters but I try not to use them.

-7000’ density altitude makes for some impressive airplane performance. Most planes can’t provide enough fuel to prevent from running lean in the dense air. That’s the X factor most guys don’t consider.

 

[Zeldman]

But in any case, most of the pilots I've talked to say they won't even try to fly when temps get to 20 below or greater.

The company I worked for in north Alaska stopped gas engine operations at -38f. Not because it was hard on the pilot and passengers but because small things in the plane would start breaking. For instance, the pins in the door hinges, plastic interior pieces, the vinyl coverings on the seats. Turbine operations stopped at -50f.

Maintenance would richen up the gas planes in winter. And yes, -7000 density altitude and climb up out of the airport area before crossing the end of the runway type climbouts is possible in a C-207.

 

[Dan Thomas]

...the pilot Marty that traps out in the Alaskan wilderness. He flies a (I think it is another manufacturer) kind of a piper cub clone...

Looks to me like a PA-20 Pacer. Cubs were never side by side and never had control wheels.

 

[Stewartb]

The company I worked for in north Alaska stopped gas engine operations at -38f. Not because it was hard on the pilot and passengers but because small things in the plane would start breaking. For instance, the pins in the door hinges, plastic interior pieces, the vinyl coverings on the seats. Turbine operations stopped at -50f.

Maintenance would richen up the gas planes in winter. And yes, -7000 density altitude and climb up out of the airport area before crossing the end of the runway type climbouts is possible in a C-207.

Enrich by drilling the jet or restricting the air intake? Old guys used to block part of their air intakes to alter their air-fuel ratio. Younger guys have probably never seen it done. I'm somewhere in the middle.

 

[Zeldman]

I don't know what they did. They took a screw driver for the 207 and it took longer to get the cowling off and then back on than to adjust it. Here in the high desert the mechanics lean it out. Gotta be real careful on the throttles for take offs in Phoenix or other low land airports or there will be a attention grabbing stumble before the engines get up and go.

Part of the winterizing was to cover most of the oil cooler and never worry about the cowl flaps until summer.

 

[LongRoadBob]

Looks to me like a PA-20 Pacer. Cubs were never side by side and never had control wheels.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it looked to me like it was not a side by side. It's kinda hard to see, but when he is in the airplane, I seems like he's taking up the whole cockpit. Or is it possible he changed planes after first season?

Did a quick google, it's mentioned (wikipedia) as a " Piper PA-18A-150 Super Cub" but I thought I read somewhere else it was not actually a piper.

I sure don't know.

 

[James331]

They work, I just modify a sleeping bag from Walmart, holds the heat for a good while.

Back in the old bush pilot days they’d actually bring their battery and oil inside with them, or so I heard

 

[Lachlan]

They work, I just modify a sleeping bag from Walmart, holds the heat for a good while.

Back in the old bush pilot days they’d actually bring their battery and oil inside with them, or so I heard

Battery? Battery? What authentic real true Bush plane has a battery?

 

[Zeldman]

Back in the old bush pilot days they’d actually bring their battery and oil inside with them, or so I heard

I had an old chevy truck in Bethel that I would bring the battery inside during winter..... the oil I used was old airplane oil. I trusted the electricity to stay on and keep the block heater going to keep the oil warm...