Crosswind technique

denverpilot

denverpilot

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DenverPilot
This video is entertaining.


The guy at about 3:00 forgets his flaps are down during the T&G. :nono:

No one seems to believe in landing upwind wheel first. The C-180 driver almost gets it straight. At least he's fighting for it harder than the nosedraggers, but not quite all the way.
 
I hope to Odin no one ever had a camera handily when I'm landing a stiff crosswind. Hard enough as it is.
 
Haven't watched the whole thing, but just in the first couple minutes, the real problem isn't that they aren't landing on the upwind wheel first (several of them actually were in fact touching the upwind wheel first).

The problem is that they are all touching down still in the crab so as soon as the first wheel hits, it rocks the plane over to the other wheel and the upwind wing naturally pops back up to catch the wind.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I'm not sure it's a matter of belief. Landing the upwind wheel first is a result of proper crosswind landing technique (given a crosswind that exists all the way to touchdown), not the goal.
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Well there's a certain religious war feel about such things. The point was whoever is teaching over there apparently isn't amongst the True Believers(TM) judging by the video.

Read the video comments too. Tons of True Believers(TM) who say all those pilots in the video should have only been using partial flaps and landing faster. They even claim to be pilots.

:popcorn:
 
What's the problem? This video illustrates the whole reason why tricycle gear was re-invented in the 40's. ;)
 
RoscoeT said:
What's the problem? This video illustrates the whole reason why tricycle gear was re-invented in the 40's. ;)
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Yeah, it's amazing what they're getting away with in this clip, thanks to the center of mass being forward of the mains... not one pilot seems willing to actually slip into the landing, preferring to pivot on the downwind wheel. A good day to be selling new tires at that airport... :D

Definitely a tricky wind situation, but I really didn't see anybody get that upwind wing down and hold it down, not even the 180 pilot. Weird. They didn't even try, apparently. The second plane to land seems to experiment with a side slip- put it in, take it out, put it in , take it out- all the way down final... then plops it on sideways. I don't get it. :dunno:
I was not surprised to see the old 172 (split windshield, square tail) come to grief- his landing attempts were the crabbiest of them all. :eek:

Maybe they all had the same instructor? :D
 
rottydaddy said:
Definitely a tricky wind situation, but I really didn't see anybody get that upwind wing down and hold it down, not even the 180 pilot. Weird. They didn't even try, apparently. The second plane to land seems to experiment with a side slip- put it in, take it out, put it in , take it out- all the way down final... then plops it on sideways. I don't get it. :dunno:
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Exactly. They were touching the upwind wheel first, but as long as they were touching down in the crab, the wind AND their momentum will bounce 'em right over onto the downwind wheel every time.
 
Great video for demonstrating the difference between full flaps and partial flaps. The only ones that could get it close had full flaps in and used power for energy when they needed it.
 
I'm calling it a 8 knt cross wind based on the wind sock.:dunno:

I see zero rudder input in the trigear landings. No dipping of the wing, nothing. Just alerion and elevator control. Set it down, hope and pray.

Very poor technique.
 
Geico266 said:
I'm calling it a 8 knt cross wind based on the wind sock.:dunno:

I see zero rudder input in the trigear landings. No dipping of the wing, nothing. Just alerion and elevator control. Set it down, hope and pray.

Very poor technique.
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It's New Zealand, what do you expect?:dunno:
 
denverpilot said:
Looks like it's grass but you can't see it well... turf was probably taking the majority of the abuse.
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Sure looks like asphalt to me at times, but then again, I don't hear any "chirps", so maybe it is just turf with a lot of white paint (and probably worn out in places from all the tires dragging across it sideways, LOL).

They say at the beginning that it's a competition of some kind... maybe a competition to see who can land the most crabbed without totaling the airplane? ;)
 
rottydaddy said:
They say at the beginning that it's a competition of some kind... maybe a competition to see who can land the most crabbed without totaling the airplane? ;)
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If I ever get invited to a competition like that, I'm bringing' a Cherokee!
 
Great training video....of what not to do.
 
denverpilot said:
Well there's a certain religious war feel about such things. The point was whoever is teaching over there apparently isn't amongst the True Believers(TM) judging by the video.

Read the video comments too. Tons of True Believers(TM) who say all those pilots in the video should have only been using partial flaps and landing faster. They even claim to be pilots.

:popcorn:
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Yeah, I've seen the religious wars about crab and kick (essentially the same maneuver except for when) and flaps/no-flaps.

But really, if the goal is to land on one wheel, they you'll do it regardless of the actual wind conditions - ending up with a one wheel landing when someone told you there was a crosswind even if it completely disappears on the runway surface. I refer to it as "landing with blinders." Fun maneuver but hardly necessary landing technique.
 
It's a paved runway. Here's another example from that airfeld but this time with the wind from the other direction:

 
Matthew said:
Must be the airport - remind me never to fly there.
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Nope, definitely the pilots. Yet again, in the last video, completely neutral aileron during touchdown and rollout...and the wind lifts the right main slightly after touchdown. That is NOT the one you want in the air. Still no aileron correction into the wind. And this is not even much x-wind, or a whole lot of mechanical turbulence. If these guys saw serious x-wind, they'd bend something. Looks like New Zealand needs to import some decent flight instructors. ;)
 
RoscoeT said:
Nope, definitely the pilots. Yet again, in the last video, completely neutral aileron during touchdown and rollout...and the wind lifts the right main slightly after touchdown. That is NOT the one you want in the air. Still no aileron correction into the wind. And this is not even much x-wind, or a whole lot of mechanical turbulence. If these guys saw serious x-wind, they'd bend something. Looks like New Zealand needs to import some decent flight instructors. ;)
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They need a lot more than that...:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
RoscoeT said:
Nope, definitely the pilots.
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Yeah, no kidding.

As one of my CFIs put it - Just get the phrase "crosswind landing" out of your vocabulary so you're not scared of it, then do whatever is necessary to keep the airplane lined up with the rwy and not drift.

(I know, it's not that simple - gusts, x-wind limitations, personal minimums, ...)

From the looks of that windsock, I think I had stronger crosswinds on my first solo.
 
Matthew said:
From the looks of that windsock, I think I had stronger crosswinds on my first solo.
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That sock must be in a shielded area because it doesn't seem to represent what the aircraft are enduring. Unless it's a 50 MPH wind sock:D
 
Save for the pilot of the Cessna 180, not one of the others demontrated proper crosswind technique during the flare...downwind rudder to align the airplane with the runway centerline and upwind wing down enough to arrest the drift. As noted, usually results in touching down on the upwind tire first. Cessnas have little rudder authority, but pretty good ailerons, meaning a strong x-wind will likely require almost full rudder application. A good excersize during x-wind practice is to just fly over the centerline at 3ft while aligning with the runway and arresting the drift. If you can't do that well, you should maybe go to another runway.
I also noted that none of the pilots kept the ailerons into the wind after landing. Fortunately, they were all saved by the airplanes because of the geometry and toughness of the gear - the geometry tended to rotate the heading of airplane more towards the runway heading. Too bad there wasn't one skilled pilot there to show them how it's done.
 
Matthew said:
As one of my CFIs put it - Just get the phrase "crosswind landing" out of your vocabulary so you're not scared of it, then do whatever is necessary to keep the airplane lined up with the rwy and not drift.

(I know, it's not that simple - gusts, x-wind limitations, personal minimums, ...)
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In some ways though, it is that simple. Aileron for drift, rudder for alignment. My first CFI used words similar to yours.

When I'd get my brain all crossed up he'd say, "Stop thinking about it. Use whatever control inputs it takes."

Later when we did it with higher winds he laughed and said, "Ran out of rudder and had to go around, huh?"

Every landing is just a landing. If you need no bank to stop the drift, you take it out. If you need no rudder for runway alignment, you don't use it. And vice-versa.

Some people really do turn "crosswind" into a boogie-man word.

The boogie-man stuff should be saved for warning you that when you eventually do run out of rudder and you haven't thought far enough ahead to know which other airport in the area has a better aligned runway to the winds and whether or not you have the gas to get there, you just screwed up.

Becoming a non-thinking non-planning passenger is scarier than a crosswind. We should not make people scared of them. Just fly the plane. ;)
 
The first video said something about competition :dunno: too much ambient noise for me and I'm not bearing through the pain to watch again.

I figure they were competing to see who can resist temptation to correct the longest.
 
Some of those definitely had me on the edge of my seat saying rudder, rudder! But the pilot who landed at about 2:30 did a nice kick out of the crab just as he touched down.

I had some fun of my own with crosswinds today, landing at home base on rwy 9 with a reported wind of 04011G21KT. I've had a lot of trouble with crosswinds in the past, but this time I managed to time my corrections to a "T" and do a pretty gentle one with no side loading at all. It might have been just luck, of course. I don't really believe there is any reliable way to do perfect crosswind landings in gusty conditions. Sometimes, you're going to side load the gear because the wind can change much faster than your control inputs can affect the airplane's motion. The trick seems to be to react immediately and in the right direction to the changes so that you lessen the stress on the airplane instead of making it worse.

IOW, exactly the opposite of what some of those guys in the video were doing...
 
I know how to make the right corrections but again sometimes not as fast as I need to be to make a perfect landing. How many landings do you have, azure?
 
azure said:
I don't really believe there is any reliable way to do perfect crosswind landings in gusty conditions.
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Sure there is. When I was flying in Alaska if it looked like I had ham-handed the approach I just told the co-pilot, (whom I outranked) "Your airplane" :D Seriously, you are correct. You need to be on the rudder and never relax. Gusty cross-winds were put here to keep us humble!!!
 
spinfire said:
I know how to make the right corrections but again sometimes not as fast as I need to be to make a perfect landing. How many landings do you have, azure?
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Oh, gosh. It's over 2000. I used to practice TOLs until I was punchy, really too much. Now I just practice a few at a time, and only once in a while. The truth is that I avoid gusty conditions because I hate getting tossed around like a rag doll and because I'm afraid of pranging my airplane. :(
 
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