Crosswind Component Comfort Level

[EdFred]

What percent of the maximum demonstrated crosswind component in the plane(s) you normally fly do you feel comfortable landing in?

 

[Henning]

I never really look up the DXWC of airplanes I fly, if I run out of rudder I run out of rudder. Numbers in a book in this situation have no real meaning to me, the plane will do what it wil do, and either I'll be able to land in it or I'll have to figure something else out.

 

[gismo]

Given the circumstances under which that particular number is generated, it really means very little to me. IMO the real issue is crosswind vs stall speed and in general I'm OK with somewhere around 50%. This does vary with available rudder and technique so it's only a place to start.

 

[poadeleted3]

I never really look up the DXWC of airplanes I fly, if I run out of rudder I run out of rudder. Numbers in a book in this situation have no real meaning to me, the plane will do what it wil do, and either I'll be able to land in it or I'll have to figure something else out.

I agree with this. The number is a figure, that at least in the Cessnas, doesn't seem to mean much. The demonstrated crosswind in the book isn't even close to what I've handled. I personally would kind of like to see that number reflect something closer to reality, but it would be a bear to have to wait for just the right windy day to get a plane certified, I suppose. Murphy's Law would decree the longest spell of calm days on record LOL

 

[waldo]

If you had a 1962 Cherokee 180B, lke I do, there is no crosswind component listed in the POH or aircraft manual (I have both). You must learn by "feel". Like mentioned before . . . when I run out of aileron and rudder I figure that I have reached 100% of the x-wind component and that's about maximum for me. If I can't keep it lined up with the runway then I'll do a go-a-round and try something else.

Which brings me to another question about x-wind landings . . . Do you guys typically "crab" or "slip" or do a combination of both? As a student I was taught to crab. As a pilot I learned to slip. As I gained experience I tend to do a combination of both.

 

[poadeleted3]

If you had a 1962 Cherokee 180B, lke I do, there is no crosswind component listed in the POH or aircraft manual (I have both). You must learn by "feel". Like mentioned before . . . when I run out of aileron and rudder I figure that I have reached 100% of the x-wind component and that's about maximum for me. If I can't keep it lined up with the runway then I'll do a go-a-round and try something else.

Which brings me to another question about x-wind landings . . . Do you guys typically "crab" or "slip" or do a combination of both? As a student I was taught to crab. As a pilot I learned to slip. As I gained experience I tend to do a combination of both.

I was taught to do both. What I became most comfortable with, and what I do now, is crab till I'm over the numbers, then transition to a slip. Assuming I haven't blown my approach, I'm flaring as I cross the numbers, so it's kind of a multi-tasking moment easier to do than describe.

 

[inav8r]

As a student I just recently made a successful cross wind landing at 07C (Auburn, IN) on RY 27 with the winds from 190 at 13 G 18 in a Cessna 172. My instructor was impressed and didn't have to offer any assistance.

I think the key is to not over commit yourself. My personal mindset is that if you're coming in and can't control the drift, just go around - you don't have to land. I suppose after a couple of attempts and not being able to make a safe landing I'd just go somewhere else.

Fortunatly there are 3 airports within a 10 min drive of my home base that gives me all sorts of options if I were to return home and and find nothing but insane cross winds at my home base. I'd just put her down whever it was safest.

 

[Flyboy]

Which brings me to another question about x-wind landings . . . Do you guys typically "crab" or "slip" or do a combination of both? As a student I was taught to crab. As a pilot I learned to slip. As I gained experience I tend to do a combination of both.

I prefer to slip all the way. On gusty days the less you have to do to transition to land, the better.

 

[T Bone]

I never really look up the DXWC of airplanes I fly, if I run out of rudder I run out of rudder. Numbers in a book in this situation have no real meaning to me, the plane will do what it wil do, and either I'll be able to land in it or I'll have to figure something else out.

As usual, the man has it spot on!

As a newbie, I learned to land beyond the 152's max of 12 (with CFII on board). On one of my Xc's I landed right at the printed demonstrated "limit".

On my checkride, I did a crab to correct on the first (a "soft" field landing) and transitioned to a sideslip on short final for the second ("short" field) landing. The DE complimented me on "very nice" crosswind correction. To be honest, I'd intended to transition to the slip in the first landing, but got caught up in thinking "soft field".... My current preference is to transition to the slip somewhere on final, the gustier, the earlier.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

What percent of the maximum demonstrated crosswind component in the plane(s) you normally fly do you feel comfortable landing in?

Start feeling "comfortable" in much wind of any kind, & trouble will soon follow.

Across from the BFI tower, we've repeatedly done 31+ (+/- gusts) knot direct 90 degree crosswinds in C150s, SkyHawks, & Cutlasses with no problems. But those are heavy, intense experiences and no fun for me.

 

[azure]

Start feeling "comfortable" in much wind of any kind, & trouble will soon follow.

Truer words were never spoken. And as to the question, I don't even recall the Cardinal's MDXWC. As others have said, it really doesn't matter. If I run out of rudder, I will go around and try a different runway. I have not actually faced that strong a wind yet though. When I have to go around, it is usually because of strong gusts or changing wind direction.

As to crab vs slip, I was taught crab, then kick out by my first CFI but was never comfortable with it. Making major changes in where the nose is pointed coming over the numbers makes me very nervous. I prefer to slip all the way in from turning final. If I'm doing a straight-in I transition to a slip after the gear come down, usually around pattern altitude.

Liz

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Truer words were never spoken. And as to the question, I don't even recall the Cardinal's MDXWC. As others have said, it really doesn't matter. If I run out of rudder, I will go around and try a different runway. I have not actually faced that strong a wind yet though. When I have to go around, it is usually because of strong gusts or changing wind direction.

As to crab vs slip, I was taught crab, then kick out by my first CFI but was never comfortable with it. Making major changes in where the nose is pointed coming over the numbers makes me very nervous. I prefer to slip all the way in from turning final. If I'm doing a straight-in I transition to a slip after the gear come down, usually around pattern altitude.

Liz

Something I've often observed is pilot's taking "demonstrated crosswind performance" in a POH as maximum X-wind performance. Those figures in the POHs were produced by a professional pilot concerned mostly likely with not dinging the company plane OR his reputation and payroll check frequency. All things considered for those types, it's best for them to be fairly conservative and for many others too.

 

[EdFred]

Start feeling "comfortable" in much wind of any kind, & trouble will soon follow.

I said comfortable, not complacent.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I said comfortable, not complacent.

Yeap, I said, comfortable too. <G>

 

[EdFred]

Yeap, I said, comfortable too. <G>

We must have different definitions then. LOL

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

We must have different definitions then. LOL

I do some of my best flying when I'm "uncomfortable".

But complacency ? That's stupid. It's in the dictionary I bet.

 

[jdwatson]

I hate the slip and love to crab. The problem is that I run out of rudder faster if I just crab. I like the wings level on approach, so I'm learning to compromise with a little of both. At RDU controllers aren't a big fan of balked landings when you come in on RWY32. RWY32 is unique at RDU and controllers like it if the 'little' planes use it. So, I've grown used to forward slips, side slips and short-field landing techniques depending on the wind. The real challenge of RWY32 is at night, one comes over Umstead Park which is a "black hole" at night. I've lost the field VFR a couple of times. Just another reason I like IFR.

 

[gismo]

Do you guys typically "crab" or "slip" or do a combination of both? As a student I was taught to crab. As a pilot I learned to slip. As I gained experience I tend to do a combination of both.

As long as I'm comfortable in the airplane, I prefer the crab and kick over a slip down final. I know I can deal with a lot more crosswind that way especially in heavier airplanes (inertia is your friend here), and a prolonged slip is fairly uncomfortable for passengers.

 

[fgcason]

I never really look up the DXWC of airplanes I fly, if I run out of rudder I run out of rudder. Numbers in a book in this situation have no real meaning to me, the plane will do what it wil do, and either I'll be able to land in it or I'll have to figure something else out.

That sums it up quite nicely.


At a reasonable point on final, I start crossing it up until I'm pointed in the right direction and not drifting sideways. I prefer not being completely at the stops. If I run out of aileron or rudder, I rethink the program. If things start feeling wrong, I rethink the program and try again. The pax? Well, they can just deal with their emotional problems for 15 seconds.

That whole kick it out and spin the tires routine just feels like a good way to swap ends or run off into the weeds to me. (Maybe it's because I don't do that enough to be really proficient at it) Just curious, how many people with tailwheels land this way?

 

[gismo]

Just curious, how many people with tailwheels land this way?

I do sometimes, although in my little taildragger this technique doesn't help as much as it does in something with more mass. In some taildraggers it's the easy way to confirm that the runway is clear before touching down even when there's no wind.

It's really not all that difficult. Landing in a gusty wind requires just as much effort and skill. And unless you're using a one way strip, it's simple to go around long before the landing turns into a wild ride if you kick too much or too little.