Crash of Asiana Flight 214 Accident Report Summary

Wow, first time I got the actual crew names. I guess it wasn't Wee Too Lo.

PIC / instructor pilot: Lee Jung Min
Trainee/pilot flying: Lee Kang Kuk
FO: Bong Dong Won
Relief captain: Lee Jong Ju
 
I was watching the news when the lady announced the crew names, well, the names someone gave them.... Some of the medical team was watching as well and thought I was very uncaring for laughing so hard until I explained the names...:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Asiana is still my favorite airline for far east travel.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Beware of the three Lees...
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I suspect Lee is a pretty common surname in Korea. It is in China as well. My brother-in-law's last name is Lee (he's of Chinese descent). My sister and him declined my suggestions of naming one of their sons Robert E.
 
You'd have thought the 4 red PAPIs would have given it away.
 
dans2992 said:
You'd have thought the 4 red PAPIs would have given it away.
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Yeah, well given the fact that they were displacing the threshold at the time, there was no vertical guidance at all. No glideslope, no VASI/PAPI, nothing.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
no VASI/PAPI.
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Excerpt from NTSB report:

As the approach continued, it became increasingly unstabilized as the airplane descended below the desired glidepath; the PAPI displayed three and then four red lights, indicating the continuing descent below the glidepath.
 
NoHeat said:
Excerpt from NTSB report:

As the approach continued, it became increasingly unstabilized as the airplane descended below the desired glidepath; the PAPI displayed three and then four red lights, indicating the continuing descent below the glidepath.
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Hmm. Gonna have to look into that.

Apparently I mis remembered what I thought I knew about the PAPI. Supposedly it WAS operational.
 
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basic lack of airmanship and inability to fly a visual approach

Flying 101 continues to kill people
 
The description of the descent is stunning. It sounds like a bunch of student pilots. So high on final they had to chop & drop? These guys get paid to fly?
 
MAKG1 said:
The description of the descent is stunning. It sounds like a bunch of student pilots.
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Stunning is right. The report is a very interesting read.

They say that accidents happen because of a chain of mishaps. This chain was awesome. They didn't know how to operate the systems, fly the plane, interact with one another, or react when they lost a stabilized approach.
 
I've watched the video simulation a number of times. I'm trying to not look at it and just say "I could never be that stupid".

I think that one lesson that applies even in GA aircraft is that if you're going to use an autopilot it's important to really understand this device thoroughly. If the autopilot commands the airplane to do something unexpected then perhaps we should disconnect it and fly by hand until we find the incorrect setting.

Even simple autopilots can be inadvertently misconfigured.

As far as chopping the throttle while trying to fly a 3 degree glide path ... well, I can't think of an airplane with more than 2 seats for which that would ever be a good idea.

And those red lights on the left side of the runway ... I guess we ought to know what those mean. :(
 
The problem with automation is typically pilots, or rather the poor interfaces between pilot and automation. Autonomous aircraft coming soon...
 
The issue here isn't so much automation but the fact that you have to monitor what your aircraft is doing during automation. Wrong glidepaths, excessive sink rates, and diminshing airspeeds should all be caught and corrected.

There have been a few: The L-1011 guys in the everglades who let the autopilot fly them into the ground why they played with an indicator bulb. The russians who while letting their kids play managed to disengage roll control, etc...
 
I have no jet training or experience. But how is it that the procedures required in this approach fall outside of what they teach you day 1 in the simulator? I guess the fact that there was no glide slope for the auto pilot to track. But seriously, what was hard or unusual about this approach or how the equipment behaved?
 
PPC1052 said:
I have no jet training or experience. But how is it that the procedures required in this approach fall outside of what they teach you day 1 in the simulator? I guess the fact that there was no glide slope for the auto pilot to track. But seriously, what was hard or unusual about this approach or how the equipment behaved?
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The equipment was perfectly working, as it almost always is, until the human pilot f's it up with garbage in-garbage out. Colgan crashed a perfectly fine airplane because of the human pilots behind the wheel. Pilots have crashed perfectly fine airplanes because the human pilot ran them out of gas.

What was hard ? Apparently some folks have forgotten, or never learned in the first place, how to fly a visual approach

Flying 101 continues to kill people.
 
B350ATP said:
The equipment was perfectly working, as it almost always is, until the human pilot f's it up with garbage in-garbage out. Colgan crashed a perfectly fine airplane because of the human pilots behind the wheel. Pilots have crashed perfectly fine airplanes because the human pilot ran them out of gas.

What was hard ? Apparently some folks have forgotten, or never learned in the first place, how to fly a visual approach

Flying 101 continues to kill people.
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I wonder if these guys were trained "ab inito" and had limited experience hand flying smaller aircraft into airports without an ILS?

Having an active GA segment (as we do in the US) has it's benefits.
 
dans2992 said:
I wonder if these guys were trained "ab inito" and had limited experience hand flying smaller aircraft into airports without an ILS?

Having an active GA segment (as we do in the US) has it's benefits.
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What really killed it was the cultural hierarchy aspect of it and confusion as to who was meant to be calling the shots. The captain was acquiescing to the check pilot without having made a positive exchange of control statement. Lack of correct CRM was a major factor.

The part about him feeling uncomfortable flying a visual approach in nice conditions though, that link in the chain is inexcusable. I don't give a crap what you are flying, you should be perfectly comfortable making a visual approach in it without any assistance lighting information at all. If you can see the runway from several miles out, you shouldn't need the PAPI, and besides, it appears it was working correctly. When you pull the nose up and know you're behind the power curve and low and you don't hear engines spooling up, it's time to grab a handful of throttle and get the nose down.

Very basic airmanship not executed and it was due to two guys who were too polite to potentially step on each other's dicks that they crashed a perfectly good airplane on a beautiful day.

BTW, I don't see where our active GA sector fails to produce poor quality airline pilots.
 
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Asiana: Sure...the American NTSB is just covering for the fatal flaws in the American Boeing.
 
It's great to say that the pilots screwed up. The real question is why they screwed up?
 
jonnyjetprop said:
It's great to say that the pilots screwed up. The real question is why they screwed up?
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Contributing Factors:
*ILS OTS
*Non-intuitive hold on the A/T

Main Factors:
*Complete lack of hand-flying ability as encouraged by the airline
*Not following SOP for call-outs
*A flight where 2 relatively new-to-their-roles pilots were both at the controls & culturally the IP would be hesitant to correct the PF.
*Not understanding that seeing 4 reds on the PAPI on short final = level off and throttles full forward.
 
warthog1984 said:
Contributing Factors:
*ILS OTS
*Non-intuitive hold on the A/T
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I'd quibble with that point a bit. The crew first set 3000 in the flight level change window, which makes sense, it gets them ready for a go around.

But then, while still trying to land, the pilots activated flight level change mode at 2:02 on the video, causing the airplane to try to climb. The pilot then disconnected the autopilot.

What is non-intuitive about 'autopilot disconnect'?
 
JimNtexas said:
The pilot then disconnected the autopilot.

What is non-intuitive about 'autopilot disconnect'?
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If I override the A/P on my aircraft it disconnects...that is the designed behavior. Why did these guys not understand that when they took over the throttle that the autothrottle was inhibited? If I find myself countermanding the A/P I hit the disconnect anyway. Sheesh....1,500 hours won't matter if we don't train'em to fly.
 
JimNtexas said:
But then, while still trying to land, the pilots activated flight level change mode at 2:02 on the video, causing the airplane to try to climb. The pilot then disconnected the autopilot.

What is non-intuitive about 'autopilot disconnect'?
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I could see the AP disconnect disengaging the AT, but putting it into hold mode as non-intuitive.

But like I said: contributing factors only. At the end of the day, 2 senior ATP-rated pilots managed to underrun the Glidepath and ram a fully functioning jetliner into a seawall after a 12 mile straight in to a 10,000ft runway on a calm, clear day.
 
lets not nickel and dime this, they f'ed it up, and were unable to fly a visual approach. Period, the end.

ATC in many places will NOT clear foreign crews for visual approaches, for this reason.
 
B350ATP said:
lets not nickel and dime this, they f'ed it up, and were unable to fly a visual approach. Period, the end.

ATC in many places will NOT clear foreign crews for visual approaches, for this reason.
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They did not have that option on that day on that runway.
 
B350ATP said:
lets not nickel and dime this, they f'ed it up, and were unable to fly a visual approach. Period, the end.

ATC in many places will NOT clear foreign crews for visual approaches, for this reason.
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Really? Wow.

Where?
 
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