Crash near big bear, California

RalphInCA

RalphInCA

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RalphInCA
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I just read a brief news item that there was a small plane crash near big bear in Southern California.

Anybody know anything about this?
 
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MAKG1 said:
No, but my "oh ****, not again" alarm is going off.

It's all too common for people to make rookie mistakes up there, like trying to take off at max gross full rich.

No details aside from three injuries and location -- west of the dam -- but a quick Google search came up with a story from KTLA.

http://ktla.com/2014/10/16/small-aircraft-reported-down-in-big-bear-area-authorities-responding/
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I did my long solo x country to Big Bear. Damn near killed myself too. I leaned it out, did a static takeoff and pitched for Vx and I was STILL sinking after takeoff! I nosed it over and flew at the house I was gonna hit, built up speed and nursed it into the valley to the East. Climbed in a circle and never went back...ever.
 
Captain said:
I did my long solo x country to Big Bear. Damn near killed myself too. I leaned it out, did a static takeoff and pitched for Vx and I was STILL sinking after takeoff! I nosed it over and flew at the house I was gonna hit, built up speed and nursed it into the valley to the East. Climbed in a circle and never went back...ever.
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What were you flying?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain
I did my long solo x country to Big Bear. Damn near killed myself too. I leaned it out, did a static takeoff and pitched for Vx and I was STILL sinking after takeoff! I nosed it over and flew at the house I was gonna hit, built up speed and nursed it into the valley to the East. Climbed in a circle and never went back...ever.




RalphInCA said:
What were you flying?
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An underpowered and overweight plane....:confused:....:rolleyes:
 
Big Bear is safe as long as you know a few things.

I've gone up there in lil 152s, 180hp 172, pipers etc, also gone out of there a night, ain't rocket surgery.
 
Not sure how well the 172 could handle three full size people,in that situation? Hope they all recover.
 
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James331 said:
Big Bear is safe as long as you know a few things.

I've gone up there in lil 152s, 180hp 172, pipers etc, also gone out of there a night, ain't rocket surgery.
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Have you done it in a 172 with three occupants? It seems that is what happened today.
 
My dad lives there. I have flown my Cherokee in, but only in the winter with just myself onboard. That is why I am looking for a turbo on my next plane. 6800 feet causes a few issues.
 
RalphInCA said:
Have you done it in a 172 with three occupants? It seems that is what happened today.
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2 with full tanks, and a low time pilot type huge flight bag, as I recall.

You just need to run the numbers and use a little common sense and planning.
 
Yeah, I remember my attempt... 182, all seats full, minus about 30g in the tanks (refueled later at Bakersfield). Damn thing barely rose off the ground (200ft/m tops), was sluggish as hell. Scared me to death.
 
RalphInCA said:
Have you done it in a 172 with three occupants? It seems that is what happened today.
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It's possible, but not a huge margin for error.

If they are three of the Raiders' defensive line, that might be a problem. Same if there is a strong east wind or significant downdrafts.

I've done it in a 160 HP Warrior with an instructor and half fuel, in late spring (DA=8500). It was actually rather comfy as long as I used the correct Vy.

If the Captain aimed at a house, he was fighting an east wind on the lee side of a ridge. That's one of those basic errors I mentioned. You must use the wind in the mountains. If you fight it, it will win. West winds take off over the lake.
 
John221us said:
My dad lives there. I have flown my Cherokee in, but only in the winter with just myself onboard. That is why I am looking for a turbo on my next plane. 6800 feet causes a few issues.
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Wanna buy a turbo Dakota? rebuilt cylinders & turbo...
 
MAKG1 said:
It's possible, but not a huge margin for error.

If they are three of the Raiders' defensive line, that might be a problem. Same if there is a strong east wind or significant downdrafts.

I've done it in a 160 HP Warrior with an instructor and half fuel, in late spring (DA=8500). It was actually rather comfy as long as I used the correct Vy.

If the Captain aimed at a house, he was fighting an east wind on the lee side of a ridge. That's one of those basic errors I mentioned. You must use the wind in the mountains. If you fight it, it will win. West winds take off over the lake.
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Key words in bold.......:yes:

MAKG1 has great advice....

My plane sits in its hangar at over 6500MSL and 6 months out of the year our DA is over 8 grand.. On a hot day it can get to over 10 grand....

When fellow pilots pass through I usually rent the local 172 trainer that has 4400 hours.. It has a 150 HP and I can stuff it within a few hundred lbs of gross and NEVER have an issue.....

The trick is being able to "see air".. And us it to your advantage... YMMV..
 
Had a bunch of texts and phone calls yesterday from friends concerned that it might be me - I had posted on another board that L35 was on my short list. Glad everyone got out "OK"
 
Turbo Saratoga @ MMH 85* day, 2 people, full fuel, took an UNCOMFORTABLE amount of runway to get off. Big eye opener for me.
I know we're all assuming this was a DA issue at this point, but has there been any other info put out yet. The good news is, in this case we will get to here from the pilot as to what went wrong
 
47PILOT said:
Turbo Saratoga @ MMH 85* day, 2 people, full fuel, took an UNCOMFORTABLE amount of runway to get off. Big eye opener for me.
I know we're all assuming this was a DA issue at this point, but has there been any other info put out yet. The good news is, in this case we will get to here from the pilot as to what went wrong
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Yup, Lee Vining is a bit uncomfortable on a hot summer day, at 4000 feet length. Even at lower altitude, Blue Canyon is a favorite for local CFI's to freak out new mountain flyers.

The other big eye opener is that Vy is slower at high DA, and using a sea level Vy can yield pretty bad climb rates.

Some people forget about leaning at run-up. That's not good at all.

To my knowledge, there is no info out there about what caused the crash. That they were west of the dam suggests it was NOT the usual takeoff errors (unless they tried to milk it all the way over the dam -- it's been done). I really doubt it's just DA; winds likely played a role around there as well. Or, it could have been an unrelated mechanical issue like the guy who crashed his PA28 just south of Mt. Whitney (and survived with minor injuries -- he reported his prop broke in flight).
 
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