Counterfeit money N/A

Richard

Richard

Final Approach
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Ack...city life
A recent transaction has me wondering what happens if a bank determines my cash deposit is counterfeit.

A friend payed back a large sum in large bills. The teller would not immediately accept the deposit and took several minutes determining if the bills were real. I became alarmed when she took much more time than I thought was necessary.

I imagine there would be a police investigation as they backtrack to the source of the bills but in the mean time I would be out a large sum. To me, this is a taking of my property so I wonder what I could expect in the mean time. Don't tell me the detectives would give me an IOU.

I'll preempt your SA remarks by saying I do not deal in drugs or gambling.
 
i have always been under the impression, if you have conterfiet money in your possesion, for whatever reason, even if a bank gives it to you, if found out, it will be siezed and you wont get a dime back.
 
It's been a long time since I've worked a call on counterfeit money, but the times I did, I always seized the money, and the person never got it, or it's value, back. Kind of the same concept if you buy a vehicle that turns out to be stolen with a altered VIN. The car gets impounded, returned to the rightful owner (eventually), but the poor guy who innocently bought it just loses it and the money he paid for it. Unless by some miracle he finds a way to sue the guy who sold it to him and actually get some of his money back.

Bummer huh.

Have you heard of the new "fake" bills going around that are real money of small denominations that have been "washed" and then reprinted with color printers in higher denominations? The marker pins don't work in detecting them because the paper is legit. It's been a real pain in Central Texas. It's been all over the news, which at first I though was not so good..gives these kids ideas. I've seen more people holding bills up to a light checking them closely lately though.
 
"Backtracking" the source of the bills will only help you if you are able to beat new $ out of your source somehow, you have no legal recourse. If you are the one holding the bogus bills, yer stuck, and there isn't thing one you can do about it.

As far as the bogus bills being your property ... I dont' know that I'd go down that path, as counterfitting is a crime, don't cha know. If you ain't the victim, you are the perp, and get to be a guest of the state for a few years.


Richard said:
A recent transaction has me wondering what happens if a bank determines my cash deposit is counterfeit.

A friend payed back a large sum in large bills. The teller would not immediately accept the deposit and took several minutes determining if the bills were real. I became alarmed when she took much more time than I thought was necessary.

I imagine there would be a police investigation as they backtrack to the source of the bills but in the mean time I would be out a large sum. To me, this is a taking of my property so I wonder what I could expect in the mean time. Don't tell me the detectives would give me an IOU.

I'll preempt your SA remarks by saying I do not deal in drugs or gambling.
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Richard said:
A recent transaction has me wondering what happens if a bank determines my cash deposit is counterfeit.
Click to expand...

Basically you're burned.

Something you have to be aware of if you have a cash business. It can be a real bummer when a bunch of good looking bogus $20's are being circulated in the area. At one time the bills were always larger denominations but sometimes you'd get bad 20's in a neighborhood. Used to be a merchants would let others know as soon as possible if there were bad bills going around.

As for the teller...probably just doing their job as best s/he can, being as careful as possible...probably wouldn't look good on their performance report if they took in some bogus bills.

Len
 
Haven't been caught in the middle of this myself, but a friend of mine cashed out her tips at the end of the night from the bar she was working at. Took the $100 bill to the bank to have it 'removed' from her net worth.

On another note, I remember being at a night club in college. I remember seeing 5- $1 bills. ONe of which was glowing under the black light. They all looked the same under regular lighting though.
 
AirBaker said:
On another note, I remember being at a night club in college. I remember seeing 5- $1 bills. ONe of which was glowing under the black light. They all looked the same under regular lighting though.
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The bill probably just went through the washer while in a pants pocket or something was spilled on the bill. No profit in making counterfit 1's.

Len
 
Len Lanetti said:
The bill probably just went through the washer while in a pants pocket or something was spilled on the bill. No profit in making counterfit 1's.

Len
Click to expand...

Unless they're practicing for those twice as hard $2 bills!!! ;)
 
Been a bit of that going around here. Someone has been passing fake $100's to the local businesses. They look legit, but the paper is a bit off.

And, yes, you are the looser if the money is bogus.
 
mgkdrgn said:
"Backtracking" the source of the bills will only help you if you are able to beat new $ out of your source somehow, you have no legal recourse. If you are the one holding the bogus bills, yer stuck, and there isn't thing one you can do about it.

As far as the bogus bills being your property ... I dont' know that I'd go down that path, as counterfitting is a crime, don't cha know. If you ain't the victim, you are the perp, and get to be a guest of the state for a few years.
Click to expand...
Now hold on there. So I backtrack to the source, whether it be a bank, merchant, or pvt person. Basically, they have committed fraud, no? They gave me something which does not have the value which they tacitly implied, right? If they knew it was counterfeit they just made it easy for me to win judgement. If they didn't know they were passing counterfeit then they too will have an interest in making a claim against the source further upstream.

If that source chooses not to redress the problem I make a stink and start with a police report followed by civil action.

If I am unwittingly carrying counterfeit money I am the victim, therefore, I cannot imagne my claim would not prevail.

Which brings up a point I have thought about: am I expected to possess expert opinion on what is and isn't counterfeit folding money? How reasonable is it to expect me to factually determine if, say, a merchant has just given me funny money?
 
DeeG said:
Been a bit of that going around here. Someone has been passing fake $100's to the local businesses. They look legit, but the paper is a bit off.

And, yes, you are the looser if the money is bogus.
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Doesn't that scare you? We are not a truly cashless society. I don't run a cash business but over the course of a year I will go through several thousands of dollar bills of all denominations. Heck, I paid cash for my share of the Stinson and I've been known to make payments to vendors, etc in cash.

When I had to wire $5,000 to my daughter in Madagascar Western Union would only take cash. It gives me the willies to think what could have happened in that instance.
 
Richard said:
Now hold on there. So I backtrack to the source, whether it be a bank, merchant, or pvt person. Basically, they have committed fraud, no? They gave me something which does not have the value which they tacitly implied, right? If they knew it was counterfeit they just made it easy for me to win judgement. If they didn't know they were passing counterfeit then they too will have an interest in making a claim against the source further upstream.

If that source chooses not to redress the problem I make a stink and start with a police report followed by civil action.

If I am unwittingly carrying counterfeit money I am the victim, therefore, I cannot imagne my claim would not prevail.

Which brings up a point I have thought about: am I expected to possess expert opinion on what is and isn't counterfeit folding money? How reasonable is it to expect me to factually determine if, say, a merchant has just given me funny money?
Click to expand...
ok, so now PROVE you got that money from that bank/store/clerk etc. If you don't challenge it at the time, there's no way in hell you can prove you didn't already have it in your possession and switch it with a real bill they had given you. Fair to you? Maybe not - but there's no other way for it. Check your money before you leave the counter!
 
etsisk said:
ok, so now PROVE you got that money from that bank/store/clerk etc. If you don't challenge it at the time, there's no way in hell you can prove you didn't already have it in your possession and switch it with a real bill they had given you. Fair to you? Maybe not - but there's no other way for it. Check your money before you leave the counter!
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Aye, there's the rub. How to prove a specific dollar bill is the one they gave you. Also, how to authenticate the bill upon receipt. As had been mentioned, someone with a color printer altering the valuation of otherwise legal tender--how to prove it is still legal? A show of hands, who carries the 'tools of the trade' and knows how to spot a really good counterfeit from legal?
 
Banks use a special black marker to check for fake bills. When marking a legitimate bill, the marker creates a green/yellow mark. On fake bills, it comes out black. I believe the general public can purchase such markers.
 
jrdodge said:
Banks use a special black marker to check for fake bills. When marking a legitimate bill, the marker creates a green/yellow mark. On fake bills, it comes out black. I believe the general public can purchase such markers.
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Read what Lisa had to say about increasing the valuation of smaller denominations. Fraudulent denomination on otherwise legit paper.
 
The problem is there is no way that you can back to the source ... other than your word that "they gave you" the bills in question.

The person holding the bogus is the one that gets burned. You and I don't have to like it, but thats the way it works.

Richard said:
Now hold on there. So I backtrack to the source, whether it be a bank, merchant, or pvt person. Basically, they have committed fraud, no? They gave me something which does not have the value which they tacitly implied, right? If they knew it was counterfeit they just made it easy for me to win judgement. If they didn't know they were passing counterfeit then they too will have an interest in making a claim against the source further upstream.

If that source chooses not to redress the problem I make a stink and start with a police report followed by civil action.

If I am unwittingly carrying counterfeit money I am the victim, therefore, I cannot imagne my claim would not prevail.

Which brings up a point I have thought about: am I expected to possess expert opinion on what is and isn't counterfeit folding money? How reasonable is it to expect me to factually determine if, say, a merchant has just given me funny money?
Click to expand...
 
Yes you can. But, as some merchants here in Baltimore have discovered in recent weeks, that doesn't always work.

There has been a bunch of bogus making it's way around here that is $20 and $100 that are actualy $1's that have been bleached and reprinted. The Pen shows them as fine (because it -is- real money), but the watermark doesn't match the denomination.

Merchant is burned.

jrdodge said:
Banks use a special black marker to check for fake bills. When marking a legitimate bill, the marker creates a green/yellow mark. On fake bills, it comes out black. I believe the general public can purchase such markers.
Click to expand...
 
jrdodge said:
Banks use a special black marker to check for fake bills. When marking a legitimate bill, the marker creates a green/yellow mark. On fake bills, it comes out black. I believe the general public can purchase such markers.
Click to expand...
The "special marker" is just an iodine pen. It reacts with starch, which would supposedly be in fake paper.

James Randi suggests that you spray real money with aerosol starch and then take it back to the bank. Of course, that just would only be a way to lose your money.

http://www.randi.org/jr/120304youve.html
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=45770
 
Richard said:
Now hold on there. So I backtrack to the source, whether it be a bank, merchant, or pvt person. Basically, they have committed fraud, no? They gave me something which does not have the value which they tacitly implied, right? If they knew it was counterfeit they just made it easy for me to win judgement. If they didn't know they were passing counterfeit then they too will have an interest in making a claim against the source further upstream.

If that source chooses not to redress the problem I make a stink and start with a police report followed by civil action.

If I am unwittingly carrying counterfeit money I am the victim, therefore, I cannot imagne my claim would not prevail.

Which brings up a point I have thought about: am I expected to possess expert opinion on what is and isn't counterfeit folding money? How reasonable is it to expect me to factually determine if, say, a merchant has just given me funny money?
Click to expand...


While you are correct that being able to pass the problem back to it's source would be fair, you will still have to meet some burden of proof. If it's your word against the other person, I doubt you'd prevail in any court. I guess that's something to consider anytime you accept a large amount of cash.

I think there are precautions you can take to minimize your risk. You could accept the cash at your bank and have them check, and you might be able to simply seal the cash in an envelope and have the person giving the cash sign the envelope across the flaps as a "seal", then have your bank open the envelope and check the bills. At least that way you might have a chance to prove where you got the cash.

Also I believe that there are some useful fairly inexpensive "counterfit" detectors out there, but I could be wrong about the useful part.
 
mgkdrgn said:
Yes you can. But, as some merchants here in Baltimore have discovered in recent weeks, that doesn't always work.

There has been a bunch of bogus making it's way around here that is $20 and $100 that are actualy $1's that have been bleached and reprinted. The Pen shows them as fine (because it -is- real money), but the watermark doesn't match the denomination.

Merchant is burned.
Click to expand...

This is one of the main reasons that money is now printed on paper with coded threads that are unique to the denomination.
 
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