Could I, should I?

A

Apache123

Line Up and Wait
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Aug 3, 2011
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Lake Forest, IL
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Hey, Steve!
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KJOT/KUGN
So as mentioned in the classified post my apache is mid-annual. The base inspection is done and paid for, and I've paid my mechanic to pull and replace the bad cylinder, but the cylinder itself is still out for repair and I haven't received the bill for its overhaul cost.

For as many people as I have contacting me, I'm considering opening her up for sale as-is in the mechanic shop (thus whoever buys her while she is still in there would be responsible for the finalizing of the annual).

Is this a bad idea which could bite my IA or me in the butt?
 
I think you increase your chances of selling it for a favorable price by removing as many "pig-in-a-poke" elements as possible. If your IA is comfortable with it, I see more upside than downside for you.

Apache123 said:
So as mentioned in the classified post my apache is mid-annual. The base inspection is done and paid for, and I've paid my mechanic to pull and replace the bad cylinder, but the cylinder itself is still out for repair and I haven't received the bill for its overhaul cost.

For as many people as I have contacting me, I'm considering opening her up for sale as-is in the mechanic shop (thus whoever buys her while she is still in there would be responsible for the finalizing of the annual).

Is this a bad idea which could bite my IA or me in the butt?
Click to expand...
 
IMO you're going to get a lot less money unfinished. People want a bird ready to fly, in annual, all major systems working, etc. If not, then they want a screaming deal. It's that simple.
 
Claude Clueless may react as you describe, but giving a serious an knowledgeable buyer the opportunity to see what's behind the curtain while it's being done is a significant advantage over performing another pre-buy afterwards.

Alexb2000 said:
IMO you're going to get a lot less money unfinished. People want a bird ready to fly, in annual, all major systems working, etc. If not, then they want a screaming deal. It's that simple.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
Claude Clueless may react as you describe, but giving a serious an knowledgeable buyer the opportunity to see what's behind the curtain while it's being done is a significant advantage over performing another pre-buy afterwards.
Click to expand...


This^^^^^^^^^^^

Especially with an older twin.
 
wabower said:
Claude Clueless may react as you describe, but giving a serious an knowledgeable buyer the opportunity to see what's behind the curtain while it's being done is a significant advantage over performing another pre-buy afterwards.
Click to expand...

Absolutely right. It will give buyer a real advantage if he/she gets to participate in the annual - they'll have the ability to address, if they wish, minor squawks that don't rise to "airworthy" concerns. It'll save you some negotiation at the prebuy.
 
Participating in the annual, i.e. doing a pre buy while everything is opened up is one thing. Selling it "as is" in a non-flyable condition is another. How do you know if it's rigged right, avionics working, etc., without test flying it?

If the cylinder is the only squak and the bird is truly right, then allowing a pre-buy inspection while opened up and closing after a test flight would inspire the most confidence in buyers and the highest price IMO. Otherwise, why would a buyer take the risk, unless they were able to get it at a reduced price?
 
I once flew to a shop to examine an aircraft that was listed for sale while its annual was going on. It gave me a chance to talk with the mechanic who bad-mouthed the owner for not paying his bills. He indicated that the annual would never be finished for the selling owner and potentially not for the purchasing owner. Needless to say, my interest in that aircraft stopped.
 
The beauty of a word processor is that you can use the ones you like to compose the acceptance, delivery and payment terms of a purchase agreement to fit the circumstances of the deal that you wish to make. Try it sometime.

Alexb2000 said:
Participating in the annual, i.e. doing a pre buy while everything is opened up is one thing. Selling it "as is" in a non-flyable condition is another. How do you know if it's rigged right, avionics working, etc., without test flying it?

If the cylinder is the only squak and the bird is truly right, then allowing a pre-buy inspection while opened up and closing after a test flight would inspire the most confidence in buyers and the highest price IMO. Otherwise, why would a buyer take the risk, unless they were able to get it at a reduced price?
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
The beauty of a word processor is that you can use the ones you like to compose the acceptance, delivery and payment terms of a purchase agreement to fit the circumstances of the deal that you wish to make. Try it sometime.
Click to expand...

Here is what the OP said:

"For as many people as I have contacting me, I'm considering opening her up for sale as-is in the mechanic shop (thus whoever buys her while she is still in there would be responsible for the finalizing of the annual)."

I thought the point was to give advice to the seller about how to maximize the amount of money he gets for his Apache.

However, you are 1000% right, I should have never posted without considering that my inability to use a word processor is uncommon among aircraft buyers. I appreciate you not just calling me an idiot for disagreeing with you in some underhanded condescending way.

I stand corrected.
 
Yeah, just make the final sale subject to flight test in the sales agreement.
 
Unfortunately you will barely get more than scrap metal price for the bird...
Actually the parts sold off one at a time will bring more than the flying airplane...
Just the way it is in the age of $8 fuel, $100 an hour shop rates, permanent TFR's, and a 40% drop in the average individual's net worth over the past 4 years...

I have the urge to sell Fat Albert at times, but would have to give him away.. His paint is a bit flaky, the interior is worn, the panel is a hodge podge of steam gauges and older radios.. Any new buyer (including me) would not see any value in him... What they won't see is the fresh engines, new hoses, mags, etc. etc. etc. etc, ad nauseum (yeah, I'm anal) He doesn't look that great but I will put him up against any plane as far as reliabilty - fill the tanks and go anywhere without a second thought...

The times have changed... The singing grandchildren that happily rode 'Gramma's airline' to the beach and the mountains over the decades are now gone off to the university and no longer spend their weekends and vacations being shuttled across several states... I no longer need fat Albert to fly two people on the now infrequent trips... I suspect he and I will motor along together until neither of us is able to fly and when I finally go off on that last trip he will too...
 
wabower said:
Claude Clueless may react as you describe, but giving a serious an knowledgeable buyer the opportunity to see what's behind the curtain while it's being done is a significant advantage over performing another pre-buy afterwards.
Click to expand...

Exactly that. Personally if it was me, I' WANT to see the plane there in that shape, makes it much easier for me to inspect.
 
My response was directed to your "how does the buyer know" questions. Now you know too.

Alexb2000 said:
Here is what the OP said:

"For as many people as I have contacting me, I'm considering opening her up for sale as-is in the mechanic shop (thus whoever buys her while she is still in there would be responsible for the finalizing of the annual)."

I thought the point was to give advice to the seller about how to maximize the amount of money he gets for his Apache.

However, you are 1000% right, I should have never posted without considering that my inability to use a word processor is uncommon among aircraft buyers. I appreciate you not just calling me an idiot for disagreeing with you in some underhanded condescending way.

I stand corrected.
Click to expand...
 
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