Cost of Landing on a Highway

[NWADC9]

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/pilot-who-safely-brought-plan-down-route-43-charge/nbtMB/

So landing in Farmer Brown's backyard vs. the highway a few feet away would save thousands of dollars?

 

[Brad Z]

I'd suggest a written offer to the turnpike inviting them to forcefully compact granulated silica.

 

[airguy]

Yep - take it to court and let them explain it to a jury. See how far it flies there...

 

[Sac Arrow]

I dunno, it's kind of jacked, but he got down safely and I guess he inconvenienced motorists. I supposes he should pay something for the service of whatever service that was rendered to him, but it sounds stiff to me.

 

[MachFly]

Nicholson was billed $2,993.34 for overtime costs for highway workers who were on scene all day waiting for the plane to be towed.

WTF? No one asked those so called highway workers to be there. If there were no government interference he could just fix the plane on the side of the highway and take off.

I guess it would have been cheaper for him to crash into something.

 

[wsuffa]

"but insurance will pay it".... just like ambulance charges.

 

[ClimbnSink]

I dunno, it's kind of jacked, but he got down safely and I guess he inconvenienced motorists. I supposes he should pay something for the service of whatever service that was rendered to him, but it sounds stiff to me.

Yeah he used gov't services so he should pay for those explicit services delivered. Makes perfect sense, same exact logic as user fees. But we already pay for those services through avgas taxes. Just like the highways and car gas.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Yeah he used gov't services so he should pay for those explicit services delivered. Makes perfect sense, same exact logic as user fees. But we already pay for those services through avgas taxes. Just like the highways and car gas.

Yeah...funny how that is forgotten.

I will burn $20 in gas to avoid a $5 bridge toll out of principle. (Seriously)

 

[vfrfellow]

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/pilot-who-safely-brought-plan-down-route-43-charge/nbtMB/

So landing in Farmer Brown's backyard vs. the highway a few feet away would save thousands of dollars?

Why would they have to close the turnpike in both directions for him to takeoff? Isn’t it a divided highway? I mean, can’t he stick is arm out the window (in the absence of a turn signal) merge into traffic and be off the ground in a few hundred feet?

 

[wsuffa]

Why would they have to close the turnpike in both directions for him to takeoff? Isn’t it a divided highway? I mean, can’t he stick is arm out the window (in the absence of a turn signal) merge into traffic and be off the ground in a few hundred feet?

Out of an abundance of caution.....

 

[Clark1961]

Why would they have to close the turnpike in both directions for him to takeoff? Isn’t it a divided highway? I mean, can’t he stick is arm out the window (in the absence of a turn signal) merge into traffic and be off the ground in a few hundred feet?

I don't like the $3,000 charge any more than the next pilot.

That said, it was a private road that operates for a profit. They do have to provide a safe work environment for their employees and the public has a reasonable expectation of a standard driving environment. An airplane taking off is not a standard driving environment and would be considered a major distraction so they have to stop all traffic. Gotta think like a lawyer or the corporation will pay the price.

Could there have been a better solution? Undoubtedly. Move the aircraft well off the roadway and shoulder area for the disassembly and get the turnpike employees out of the area. It's spilled milk now so clean it up and move on. Try to negotiate the fee down and move one. One word of caution, negotiating the fee down will be tough 'cause those guys have no motivation to give ground.

 

[docmirror]

"They said, ‘The plane is our property until you get it to a safe place,'” he said. "

So, if that's the case, and the plane 'belonged' to the state road commish, why are they charging the guy flying it? Shouldn't they charge the 'owner' which was the state all the time it was on the ground?

Oh, and taking this into civil court is a guaranteed lose. Those rich pilots should pay our state workers for getting his private airplane off our state roads. But - oops, when it was on the state road, the highway worker said it belonged to them... oops.

 

[flyingron]

That said, it was a private road that operates for a profit.

Bull. It is a public road owned Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission which is an agency of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. It doesn't (and hasn't) operated for profit. The fact that it exists as an independent entity from the rest of PennDOT and even that there are tolls at all, is a giant political power struggle within the state.

 

[John Baker]

The group of public servants who's sole existence depends on the taxpayers now refer to taxpayers as "customers", like they in fact are running a business rather than providing a service to the taxpayers. They take our taxes, I say this because California bureaucracies think much the same way, then they charge us for whatever service they provide.

It is this type of action that is dividing the country in half, or creating a "them vs. us attitude"

Myself, I am convinced that if a government agency wants to operate like a business and considers taxpayers to be customers, then all taxpayer support should be removed from that agency and let them find their own way of financing their operations like any other business. They are taking money from both sides of the fence in order to guarantee their own survival. If the private sector has to pay the public sectors business operating costs, then the public sector should be paying the operating costs of private sector businesses...right?

It would be funny watching a bunch of bureaucrats trying to successfully run their operations like a real business. Perhaps they could take lessons from the postmaster.

It really is a them against us atmosphere, they are out to get our money any way they possibly can. Already the average government employee makes almost double what those employed in the private sector earns, but it is not near enough for them.

The BS has to be brought to a halt somehow. Start by never voting incumbent no matter how great that incumbent might be. Voting for even one incumbent is saying you approve of the way you are being governed. Your making a statement that you agree with all that government does.

They really do need a wake up. They are public servants, they are not running a business.

-John

 

[Clark1961]

Bull. It is a public road owned Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission which is an agency of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. It doesn't (and hasn't) operated for profit. The fact that it exists as an independent entity from the rest of PennDOT and even that there are tolls at all, is a giant political power struggle within the state.

Bull yourself. It is a corporate agency of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and has a CEO rather than an elected head. The roads are owned by the corporation and are therefore private.

Now that we have that out of the way, do you have anything else?

 

[flyingron]

Bull yourself. It is a corporate agency of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and has a CEO rather than an elected head. The roads are owned by the corporation and are therefore private.

Now that we have that out of the way, do you have anything else?

Yeah, just calling it a "corporate entity" doesn't change the fact that it is not a "private company" and does nothing to change the fact that your incorrect statement that they have either a goal or a reality of turning a profit. They have been in debt since they became an agency back in the 40's.

 

[Tom-D]

I don't like the $3,000 charge any more than the next pilot.

That said, it was a private road that operates for a profit. They do have to provide a safe work environment for their employees and the public has a reasonable expectation of a standard driving environment. An airplane taking off is not a standard driving environment and would be considered a major distraction so they have to stop all traffic. Gotta think like a lawyer or the corporation will pay the price.

No it's just another mini bureaucrat with a over inflated sense of self worth.

 

[Captain]

The group of public servants who's sole existence depends on the taxpayers now refer to taxpayers as "customers", like they in fact are running a business rather than providing a service to the taxpayers. They take our taxes, I say this because California bureaucracies think much the same way, then they charge us for whatever service they provide.

It is this type of action that is dividing the country in half, or creating a "them vs. us attitude"

Myself, I am convinced that if a government agency wants to operate like a business and considers taxpayers to be customers, then all taxpayer support should be removed from that agency and let them find their own way of financing their operations like any other business. They are taking money from both sides of the fence in order to guarantee their own survival. If the private sector has to pay the public sectors business operating costs, then the public sector should be paying the operating costs of private sector businesses...right?

It would be funny watching a bunch of bureaucrats trying to successfully run their operations like a real business. Perhaps they could take lessons from the postmaster.

It really is a them against us atmosphere, they are out to get our money any way they possibly can. Already the average government employee makes almost double what those employed in the private sector earns, but it is not near enough for them.

The BS has to be brought to a halt somehow. Start by never voting incumbent no matter how great that incumbent might be. Voting for even one incumbent is saying you approve of the way you are being governed. Your making a statement that you agree with all that government does.

They really do need a wake up. They are public servants, they are not running a business.

-John

Well there it is. A John post I completely endorse. Toll roads tick me off to no end. The idea is okay...tolls recoupe the initial cost of construction. Save floating a bond or whatever. But the tolls never come down. They just add more and more. Get a break for speed pass? Nope. They just pocket the savings of firing the employees.

And this new trend of states SELLING roads to the private sector so tolls can go up!!! Are you kidding me? We own that road and its not your to sell!

 

[denverpilot]

Well there it is. A John post I completely endorse. Toll roads tick me off to no end. The idea is okay...tolls recoupe the initial cost of construction. Save floating a bond or whatever. But the tolls never come down. They just add more and more. Get a break for speed pass? Nope. They just pocket the savings of firing the employees.

And this new trend of states SELLING roads to the private sector so tolls can go up!!! Are you kidding me? We own that road and its not your to sell!

The Boulder Turnpike was built as a toll road to pay for construction and the booths were torn down after it was paid off.

This was back in the days when politicians served, however.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Somebody help me here.....please. Isn't it true that several interstate highways have been "leased" to private company's. These highways were built with taxpayers money and are now in private hands. Was there any vote on this, a referendum? Was this road leased to a private company? It seems I read that it was going be. In any event, the 60 year old Stinson ( I think it is) landed safely, undamaged, pilot, passenger. OK. Maybe not same outcome in farmers field, maybe upside down, both dead or injured. Recent annual? Plane in compliance? Or as Paul Harvey would say, " what's the rest of the story?" I think they were very lucky, should pay up and move on. I know. On RT. 80 , west of Harrisburg, big bridges have been replaced, lots of stretches , long ones, repaved,etc. Trucks and winter really play havoc with this area. Costs big money to keep them in shape.

 

[comanchepilot]

they prob only send the bill if you have insurance . . . thinking the carrier will pay something. Its like the loss of use situation.

the real reason is that he did not have a toll transponder and the cost of collection of tolls manually costs government a lot now.

 

[nddons]

He should pay the $2.90 or whatever they charge for a two-axle vehicle, and tell them to pound sand for the rest.

There was no direct or implied contractual relationship with the toll authority for those costs.

 

[John Baker]

Well there it is. A John post I completely endorse. Toll roads tick me off to no end. The idea is okay...tolls recoupe the initial cost of construction. Save floating a bond or whatever. But the tolls never come down. They just add more and more. Get a break for speed pass? Nope. They just pocket the savings of firing the employees.

And this new trend of states SELLING roads to the private sector so tolls can go up!!! Are you kidding me? We own that road and its not your to sell!

Wow Captain, someone agreeing with me is a truly rare occurrence, I shall carry the memories of this happy day all the way to my grave. Thank you so much.

-John

 

[Bill Watson]

Having done a few highway landings and a lot of private property operations in gliders, it always amazed me how much people wanted to help. Highways are for cars and are best avoided but sometimes it's just the best place to land one's powerless aircraft.

Starting with a smile (even though I was invariably ****ed off) and operating with as much humility as possible, the biggest problems encountered involved getting people to stop trying to help and to just leave me and my crew alone. Law enforcement and other officials were a special challenge but a smile and humility worked nonetheless.

What didn't work was an 'us vs them' mentality.

The PA Turnpike is a particularly difficult situation. I would like to think I could have figured out how to get them to disengage before racking up $$$ charges but probably not. I never paid a dime for or lost control of an off field landing situation but wouldn't consider a $3K charge the end of the world for an emergency landing on a public thoroughfare. Just a lost opportunity to get away without paying a cent.

 

[Jeff K]

"but insurance will pay it".... just like ambulance charges.

Actually mine did... didn't even need to give them my AAA card for the tow truck.

And the ambulance... was a $150 charge which I basically used to hide from the media. They paid that too....

There biggest fear was a loss of commerce claim from Walmart... (half the parking lot was closed) which never materialized.

 

[kenjr]

I'm pretty sure they can negotiate that down. And I'm also sure that any insurance company would gladly pay a couple grand for a 'landing fee' vs writing off a plane and possibly paying out claims to folks that could have been injured on the ground or in the plane if he'd have put it down somewhere else.

That said, not surprised at all he got a bill.