Cost of Lance Annual

C

Code90

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
142
Location
Mt Pleasant, SC
Display Name
Display name:
Code90
We are getting ready for our first annual on our new (to us) 77 Lance (non-turbo, retractable). I am curious about what others pay for similar.

We have been told by the owner of the mechanic shop to expect $3000 - 3500 barring something unexpected (and to grow from there). This shop is this biggest local shop. It has a good reputation, gets the plane in and out, nice guys, and all the other good things to say about it. A local friend travels elsewhere and pays $1600 for the same plane annual. My partners are of the "what is your safety worth" mindset. While I certainly agree with that idea, I somethimes feel like the shop just throws a number out to see how well you will swallow it. Am I pinching pennies in the wrong place?
 
It is my observation that the quality of work varies from shop to shop.
It is hard for me to imagine that it takes the other shop half the time to do the same work.
The question becomes; does the extra work add to safety or longevity of the aircraft.
I suspect that is a question only you can answer and hopefully the answer will not come to you in flight.
I am pleased when a though inspection does not reveal any problems.
I am happy to pay for work done well and the peace of mind that gives me.
 
I think $3-3500 is probably fairly reasonable for a shop to do it,

My dad owns a '78 PA32RT. He's had it since 1980. Has always done owner-assisted annuals and they average $1500-$2000....but again, my dad does a lot of the work.

On his most recent annual, his IA was out of town for an extended period and he had the local FBO shop do it. Cost him something like $8k. They found a bunch of things that 'needed to be done' including about $3500 repairing some structural damage that we believe they did when moving the airplane from the hangar to their shop. Of course they would not admit to it and conveniently repaired said damage prior to informing my dad.

Bottom line- if you find a good trustworthy shop, and the airplane doesn't have a laundry list of deferred items, I think the initial shop estimate is realistic.
 
I find concern when a shop does not find anything myself. Chaffed hose, tire wear, oil drip, etc.... May be small, but I expect to find something.

Ask the $1600 shop for references and see what others are getting. My worst fear is a pencil whipped annual and the potential for missed problems. But, if $1600 gets you a solid annual, that sounds great.

My annual this year was from a big name, huge hangar type shop with uniformed APs and such. Rate was $80/hr. My current shop is slow but through and charges $45/hr. And he will fly with me after all work he does, which says to me he doesn't want to die either.

So I'd say it's not about the rate, it's about what your getting for the money.
 
Theboys said:
Seems little high to me.
Click to expand...
Assuming a shop doing the work and the general estimate is everything (inspection AND fixing discreps), I don't think that is high at all for a 35+ year old airplane. But there are a lot of variables.
 
Code90 said:
We are getting ready for our first annual on our new (to us) 77 Lance (non-turbo, retractable). I am curious about what others pay for similar.

We have been told by the owner of the mechanic shop to expect $3000 - 3500 barring something unexpected (and to grow from there). ?
Click to expand...

That's in line with what our club pays for the annual on our C177RG, one that doesn't find any major problems.

We've paid more, in one a case a lot more, when something major was found.

On the web I've always seen these claims that some guy got his A380 annualed for $500 and a case of beer. I've never had any luck finding that shop. :(

9MbV7RJ.jpg
 
$1600 sounds right for the inspection, $3-3500 sounds right for the final bill. :D My 182 usually runs $2-2500 each year including some squawks, I think the inspection is $800-1000, but oil changes, repair a little of this and a little of that and it ends up being $2K ;)
 
Kinda hoping it is like the Disney ride wait idea. Tell you it's going to be $3500, then charge $2500 and you are thrilled. (not holding my breath though)
 
JimNtexas said:
On the web I've always seen these claims that some guy got his A380 annualed for $500 and a case of beer. I've never had any luck finding that shop.
Click to expand...

Aww now, that shop is easy to find, just look for the IA that signed off the last few annuals before you bought your plane. If not your plane I'm sure that somebody you know had a 20 amu annual after purchase, get a look at their logs...
 
Fearless Tower said:
I think $3-3500 is probably fairly reasonable for a shop to do it,

My dad owns a '78 PA32RT. He's had it since 1980. Has always done owner-assisted annuals and they average $1500-$2000....but again, my dad does a lot of the work.

On his most recent annual, his IA was out of town for an extended period and he had the local FBO shop do it. Cost him something like $8k. They found a bunch of things that 'needed to be done' including about $3500 repairing some structural damage that we believe they did when moving the airplane from the hangar to their shop. Of course they would not admit to it and conveniently repaired said damage prior to informing my dad.

Bottom line- if you find a good trustworthy shop, and the airplane doesn't have a laundry list of deferred items, I think the initial shop estimate is realistic.
Click to expand...


:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad:...

To the OP...

An owner assisted annual will teach you guys ALOT about your plane...

Float the idea to the shop and see what they say..
 
N747JB said:
$1600 sounds right for the inspection, $3-3500 sounds right for the final bill. :D My 182 usually runs $2-2500 each year including some squawks, I think the inspection is $800-1000, but oil changes, repair a little of this and a little of that and it ends up being $2K ;)
Click to expand...
Concur. The inspection itself on my Tiger runs about $900, but repairs and the like run the bill up from there -- you just don't always know ahead of time what the inspection will find needs doing. Also, many owners defer various maintenance items until the annual, and fixing those squawks also adds to the bill.
 
If nothing comes up, annual, oil change, etc Id expect 500-800, owner assist.

Owner assist annual on my 185F amphib was right around there.

3k, that's someone trying to pay off their mortgage unless something is up with the plane.
 
James331 said:
If nothing comes up, annual, oil change, etc Id expect 500-800, owner assist.

Owner assist annual on my 185F amphib was right around there.

3k, that's someone trying to pay off their mortgage unless something is up with the plane.
Click to expand...


You gotta remember,,,, the Lance is a retract... they have to swing the gear and that does take time to do...:yes:
 
The base rate for my PA 32-260 is somewhere around $1375. I haven't paid that for the last two annuals (unless my wife is reading this post). I generally get a lot of extras (new gauges, K2U stuff, etc). Last few annuals have been in the $3500 range...

I'm pretty sure that fixed gear makes a big difference...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
N801BH said:
You gotta remember,,,, the Lance is a retract... they have to swing the gear and that does take time to do...:yes:
Click to expand...

So is my amphib, but 3k is still quite high IMO.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Yes, but The $3k estimate was for a shop to do it, not owner assist.
Click to expand...

If it's that much of a difference one ether must be made of money, or crazy for not doing a owner assist :yes:
 
Owner-grunt-work annual inspection on my PA32-300 was $550. On average we had ~$700 worth of repairs and discrepencies from the inspection. I was never in a hurry, we'd spend all of February on it. We weren't flying then anyway in Illinois. I would think you'd struggle to find a way to spend $3K as a matter of course, that would take some creativity to run the bill up that high. Every now and then sure, but not every year.
 
Just closed on my '76 Lance today. We did an annual (read some of my other posts about it!) but the inspection itself was $1850. Everything else, well, that's a different story. 17k all in.

-Andrew
 
When bringing in the plane for annual, you should make it clear to the shop that they are authorized to conduct an inspection _only_. Anything that needs repair should be noted, and an estimate provided for your approval _before_ they proceed.

Had they claimed "structural damage", I would say "I'll be there in an hour to take a look, I want to see it".
 
Here I was going to say the FIRST annual with a NEW mechanic? Its not gonna be $500-800 - and not gonna be $1500 either.

You can owner assist all you want - but when you get the squawk list ask the mechanic what he needs fixed now - what he can defer - and why he has both answers. Don't let him just use 'safety' because it is simply not true - everything is not safety.

You needed an annual when you bought the plane - this was so you knew what the status was and what the first true annual was going to look like, what AD's needed to be accomplished and when and what that cost would be.

You will have [and need] a long squawk list - broken trim parts, missing placards, etc etc etc - all of which add to a mechanics bottom line. Anything like this he does not discover this year he can't add in future years. And it is important for you to understand what is airworthy and what is window dressing.

Good luck.
 
JHW said:
Owner-grunt-work annual inspection on my PA32-300 was $550. On average we had ~$700 worth of repairs and discrepencies from the inspection. I was never in a hurry, we'd spend all of February on it. We weren't flying then anyway in Illinois. I would think you'd struggle to find a way to spend $3K as a matter of course, that would take some creativity to run the bill up that high. Every now and then sure, but not every year.
Click to expand...

I know a few mechanics who could take it to $5k year after year after year . . .
 
dans2992 said:
Had they claimed "structural damage", I would say "I'll be there in an hour to take a look, I want to see it".
Click to expand...

I agree, but that was the problem- they called and informed my dad AFTER they had completed the repair. There was no way to inspect it. His insurance covered the repair, but obviously that shop/FBO won't be getting any further business (his or mine).
 
JHW said:
Owner-grunt-work annual inspection on my PA32-300 was $550. On average we had ~$700 worth of repairs and discrepencies from the inspection. I was never in a hurry, we'd spend all of February on it. We weren't flying then anyway in Illinois. I would think you'd struggle to find a way to spend $3K as a matter of course, that would take some creativity to run the bill up that high. Every now and then sure, but not every year.
Click to expand...

With shop rates approaching $80 an hour in some parts of the country, it only takes one or two discrepancies/repair items to go from the base inspection to $3k.
 
James331 said:
If it's that much of a difference one ether must be made of money, or crazy for not doing a owner assist :yes:
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but not all of us have the time to do owner assist and you have to factor that into the cost of ownership. Got to pay to play one way or another. Either with blood, sweat and tears, or money and tears.

My dad has been self employed since before I was born and can set his own schedule (make the time). I am not self employed and sometimes it's a struggle just to find the time to fly. Consequently, his cost of ownership is much less than mine.
 
Would love to do owner assisted annual, but with full time job that is hard to slip away from, it would be hard to coordinate. With two other partners, we can't have the plane down for too long either (or rather we would prefer not to). I would definately like to see more of the innerds of the plane. More knowledge is definately a good thing.
 
Code90 said:
Would love to do owner assisted annual, but with full time job that is hard to slip away from, it would be hard to coordinate. With two other partners, we can't have the plane down for too long either (or rather we would prefer not to). I would definately like to see more of the innerds of the plane. More knowledge is definately a good thing.
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm

Next year, either you or one of your partners need to schedule a one week vacation around annual time to help with the inspection.....

You guys will learn a TON about the bird.... IMHO..
 
Vacation?
I thought that was the one week a year when you flew the family to KISM (Kissimmee) to visit with your 100000 closest friends.
 
Code90 said:
Vacation?
I thought that was the one week a year when you flew the family to KISM (Kissimmee) to visit with your 100000 closest friends.
Click to expand...


Pick your poison...

Do you want to learn how your plane ticks..


Or buy 500 dollars worth of tickets just to stand in line with 100,000 of your( less then favorite) friends....:rolleyes:.........:dunno:
 
Agree. Pick your poison...
Learn how plane ticks... vs....Deal with wife ticked.
 
If I couldn't find time to wrench on my plane, I'd just rent.

I do well at my job, and it affords me a good amout of time off, even with that if I just dropped the plane off at Signature, XYZ Jet center or a Cessna center for every oil change, control lube, battery change or annual, and just said "send me the bill and let me know when to pick her up" I doubt I could afford to own a 172, let alone a 185 amphib.

To each their own, for many getting hands on the plane is part of the pleasure of owning, I enjoy doing the work I can do on my plane, I also feel better flying her knowing that I have touched every part of the airframe and can attest to the condition she's in vs just what some AP told me.

YMMV
 
Last edited:
For many of us, tinkering is a hobby onto itself. I've never bought a plane that I didn't bring home with a ferry permit or on a trailer. What many of us probably fail to recognize is that we aren't going to turn non-tinkerers into us. You either enjoy it or you don't.

But if you are so inclined, yes, we save money by doing our own maintenance and in some cases we can afford a lot more airplane that way. (Notwithstanding jame's above calling me a "rich dude", haven't sorted that out yet, I'm not the one with a non-revenue-producing amphibian.)
 
JHW said:
Notwithstanding jame's above calling me a "rich dude", haven't sorted that out yet, I'm not the one with a non-revenue-producing amphibian.)
Click to expand...

Ok, ok...that was below the belt, we're even ;)
 
Having the plane in a partnership (formally an LLC) with two others also tends to afftect the choice a bit too. Though splitting the cost three ways makes everything less painful.
There is nothing I won't try to do for myself (with a bit of help from youtube, usually). Would love to get deeper into the plane and take part. Maybe when the kids are out of school and the house is paid off I can work less and have more time. Maybe I'll just play and win the lottery this week. Gotta be some way: long lost rich relative died and left me money; Oil in the back yard like the Clampits; find pirate's burried treasure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top