"...Contact FSS for NOTAMS"...Huh?

Shawn

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Shawn
Flyin home today and was on FF with Oakland Center. Another plane was inbound for Paso Robles (KPRB) which is an uncontrolled airport serviced by Oakland Center. Center tells aircraft:

"...Contact Hawthorne Flight Service Station on 122.4 and report back confirmation of NOTAMS".

After a few confused back and forths and finally reporting back pilot inquires why he was sent to FSS for NOATMS?

ATC respond kinda pizzy "It is a new procedure, you reported one minute weather but not NOTAMS and you can get them from a briefer, FSS or I can read them verbatim which I don't have time to do..."

By his responses I think he was a confused as I was listening to the conversation.

Anyone know of an ATC procedure that now requires you to confirm NOTAMS as well as AWOS/ATIS to ATC?
 
Not that I know of. BUT, I know how frustrating it is (for me) for pilots to show up when we're NOTAM'd closed. I also know what it's like when I land on fumes at an airport that knows it's gas pump is OTS and they didn't NOTAM it.
 
Yeah...not sayin that every pilot shouldn't have NOTAMS...even though it was not an "official" briefing I ran through everything on my Foreflight briefing before my departure...but even having that I would have been just as baffled by what Center was asking for as this poor guy was if I was in his shoes and he didn't sound like just a Weekend Wally flier.
 
So he switches to 122.4 and Hawthorne tells him, "Aircraft calling near PRB, stand by, you're number four ... " Meanwhile he's lost whatever collision avoidance benefit flight following might have provided.

And this enhances safety exactly how?
 
How did Oakland center know he didn't have the NOTAMs? Was there something obvious like his destination was closed?
 
I have been asked this several times recently going into uncontrolled fields. Apparently controllers have new procedures that they didn't feel it was important enough to tell pilots about. Of course I get the notams before departure so I just say yes, but I have heard folks get told to contact flight service if they answer with something less clearly to the affirmative.

Just being asked the question makes you wonder if you've missed something big.
 
Was there something obvious like his destination was closed?

I though that my have ben the case but there was other traffic coming in and out on frequency.

I am in and out of uncontrolled fields all the time and have never encountered that reporting requirement which is what peaked my curiosity. NorCal TRACON did not query me when headed home to KWVI...wonder if it is a Center thing?
 
That would make you think that your missing something of importance.
 
It's pushing more responsibility on the pilot and reducing liability on ATC. Probably result of some incident where ATC got blamed.

Too bad, because one reason for using ATC services is a safety buffer with all the security NOTAMs that can pop up between the time you brief and the time you arrive at a destination.

Or it could be to justify more money for FSS contractor. Just wait until the FAA decides to privatize ATC and charge directly for both.
 
This has come up before, the difference between having the ATIS and the 'one minute weather.' ATIS will have airport conditions as well as weather. AWOS/ASOS usually doesn't have airport condititions. There are some circumstances where the controller must ensure that the pilot has certain important Notams. I'm pretty sure the aircraft that your friend overheard getting into the pizzin match with the Center was probably IFR. This is around the time of the year when the yearly 'major revisions' to the Controllers Handbook come out. I'm on the road now and don't have time to look, but I will in a day or two.
 
My instrument instructor used that phraseology whenever he was simulating ATC. That was my clue to check ATIS or AWOS. He never suggested it meant anything more than that. There is one local field (Gillespie County) that includes a NOTAM in their AWOS that specifies the calm wind runway.
 
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The controller is required to confirm that a pilot has the current ATIS code. Pertinent NOTAMs will be on the ATIS.

A controller is also required to have an IFR arrival confirm that they have the "one minute weather" at non towered fields. That practice is usually carried over to VFRs. Reciept of AWOS doesn't confirm NOTAMs though because not all of them broadcast the appropriate NOTAMs.

Never have I read that ATC is responsible for ensuring a VFR or IFR, has the NOTAMs for either a towered or non towered airfield. If they are, it's a brand new requirement.
 
Looks like the only NOTAM for PRB was a change in the visual descent point on the VOR 19 approach.
 
There is no change in procedure on this unless it is very recent, I doubt there is. Below is what the procedure is. As far as the controller saying "It is a new procedure, you reported one minute weather but not NOTAMS and you can get them from a briefer, FSS or I can read them verbatim which I don't have time to do..." goes, it may have been new to him. Wouldn't be the first time something has been around for a long time, it gets ignored a lot and the word comes down from above "start doing this." On ".....or I can read them verbatim which I don't have time to do...," that can be a real consideration, some of those things are pretty wordy and detailed. If it's busy enough that doing it on an already crowded frequency is going to result in unecessary delay to other aircraft the controller has a 'duty' to send the pilot elsewhere to get it. That being said, I think I heard once that maybe a controller once, somewhere, sometime, did it to make a point, like 'plan your flight,' maybe.

4−7−12. AIRPORT CONDITIONS
a. EN ROUTE. Before issuing an approach
clearance or en route descent, and subsequently as
changes occur, inform an aircraft of any abnormal
operation of approach and landing aids and of
destination airport conditions that you know of which
might restrict an approach or landing.
NOTE−
1. Airport conditions information, in the provision of en
route approach control service, does not include
information pertaining to cold temperature compensation
or the airport surface environment other than the landing
area(s) or obstruction information for aircraft that will be
cleared for an instrument approach. Accordingly, D
NOTAMs that contain the keywords TAXIWAY (TWY),
RAMP, APRON, or SERVICE (SVC) are not required to be
issued. Additionally, Obstruction NOTAMs (OBST) are not
required to be issued if an aircraft will be cleared for an
instrument approach.
2. When advised of special use airspace (SUA) or military
training route (MTR) activation, appropriate action is
taken to separate nonparticipating IFR aircraft from those
activities when required, and/or to issue applicable
advisories as warranted. When meeting this requirement,
there is no requirement for controllers to additionally issue
the associated D NOTAM activating that SUA or MTR to
the pilot. Accordingly, D NOTAMs for SUA that contain the
accountability codes SUAE, SUAC, and SUAW are not
required to be issued.
b. TERMINAL. On first contact or as soon as
possible thereafter, and subsequently as changes
occur, inform an aircraft of any abnormal operation
of approach and landing aids and of destination
airport conditions that you know of which might
restrict an approach or landing. This information may
be omitted if it is contained in the ATIS broadcast and
the pilot states the appropriate ATIS code.
 
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