Confidence issues (crosswind landings)

[azure]

Moved from the other thread to avoid threadjack.

The real problem is exceeding what you think you can do by getting in over your head. Even professionals do that sometime.

A very timely point for me personally! Today I was faced with a go/no-go decision because of winds, and only winds. Based on every other consideration, it was a go -- the weather was clear and a million, perfect VFR and from the flatness of the few CU, probably fairly smooth above the surface friction zone. I was registered for Operation Raincheck at Cleveland Center and was filed down to KLPR. But the forecast winds (KCLE) were 36015G25KT, the runway is 7/25, and actual wind reports at LPR were pretty consistently 010 to 020 at 15-20 gusting to 25-30. Home at KVLL it was more like 10 gusting to 20, straight across the 9/27 runway on average but varying from 320 to 050. One Bonanza landing at VLL suddenly stalled in from 10 AGL due to wind shear.

Long story short: I decided no-go. I called ZOB and took myself off the schedule, and drove away. Then I had second thoughts. Why did I do that? True, it would not have been fun. I probably would not have been able to land at LPR. But I had plenty of outs. Both KSKY and KPCW have crosswind runways, and PCW even has a decent restaurant! I had full tanks and it is only an hour flight over there, more likely 45-50 minutes or so with the tailwind. There is no way I would be in the OP's do or die situation. I rationalized that I really didn't want to go through the trouble if I wasn't going to be able to attend the seminar.

I think I was lying to myself though.

I think the real problem is that I'm still a little spooked by the time I waited to go around at 3DA until it was unsafe to do so, and barely missed the trees. Granted, 3DA is a fairly short runway, LPR is nearly a mile. But I've gotten so patient with my landings that I'm no longer 100% confident that I can recognize when one is beyond salvaging.

I think I'm afraid of getting in over my head as Mari says. I'm not really sure what to do about it either. I don't really have a good instructor who is proficient enough in the Cardinal for me to trust him. My CFII has just barely enough Cardinal RG time to meet the OPW, and none of that is recent. There's a good chance that if I got in trouble, he might save my skin but wind up pranging the plane. Not a good risk methinks.

 

[denverpilot]

I get the distinct feeling you need someone confident in that aircraft type to just go fly with you and purposely seek out some crosswinds. You gave yourself a scare, but you now need to see "it can be done" from someone who can do it.

There's both CFIs and Cardinal owners galore out there who could do that.

Ever been to a Cardinal Type fly-in or similar? Meet some friends that fly one so regularly the thing is like permanently attached to their butt?

 

[Morne]

Not to be a jerk, but this is my neck of the woods...

You need to look harder at your options. Wakeman I64 is better aligned with those winds and almost as close to Oberlin as LPR. There is also 4G8 just east of LPR.

Further, LPR has its own ASOS. With alternatives in hand you should have flown to it and listened to the ASOS while entering the pattern. Also, LPR has a 100' wide runway. THAT is the place to attempt to push your crosswind envelope because you can error on the upwind side and still have loads of room. Try the approach, give yourself a MDA just like an instrument approach, and shove throttle if you are not holding the runway steady. Divert to I64 with head held high.

Look, I have scrubbed flights before for crosswinds, too. But usually it is due to my home drone having undesirable winds, not my destination. Sure, forecasts calling for winds like that would make me nervous, too. But you just need to scrounge harder for alternates. What if you were airborne and those same winds, but unforecasted, sprung up? You gotta land sometime, so get good at finding alternates like you need them, because one day you might!

 

[saracelica]

Not to be a jerk, but this is my neck of the woods...

You need to look harder at your options. Wakeman I64 is better aligned with those winds and almost as close to Oberlin as LPR. There is also 4G8 just east of LPR.

Further, LPR has its own ASOS. With alternatives in hand you should have flown to it and listened to the ASOS while entering the pattern. Also, LPR has a 100' wide runway. THAT is the place to attempt to push your crosswind envelope because you can error on the upwind side and still have loads of room. Try the approach, give yourself a MDA just like an instrument approach, and shove throttle if you are not holding the runway steady. Divert to I64 with head held high.

Look, I have scrubbed flights before for crosswinds, too. But usually it is due to my home drone having undesirable winds, not my destination. Sure, forecasts calling for winds like that would make me nervous, too. But you just need to scrounge harder for alternates. What if you were airborne and those same winds, but unforecasted, sprung up? You gotta land sometime, so get good at finding alternates like you need them, because one day you might!

Wakeman is currently closed for landing (they repaved the runway) It's funny I landed just fine at LPR last night (Was with my CFI for a fun flight and I wanted xc time - it was windy but at 5p or so I got her down)

 

[Geico266]

In Nebraska if you can't handle winds like that you don't fly much. Start when the winds are lower crosswinds and build your experience. The next time the winds are a little stronger go p and master them. Keep building your skill level until you reach the Max cross wind component of your aircraft.

Practice, practice, practice.

 

[Morne]

Wakeman is currently closed for landing (they repaved the runway) It's funny I landed just fine at LPR last night (Was with my CFI for a fun flight and I wanted xc time - it was windy but at 5p or so I got her down)

Columbia 4G8 then.

 

[Alexb2000]

On thing that I believe helps is to talk yourself through a possibly tough landing BEFORE you get on final, decide what the approach numbers will be, what position you'll be in relative to the runway, how you're going to handle the crosswind, then tell yourself that as soon as one of those conditions isn't right I'm going around, NO inner debate or delay. Otherwise indecision can let things go way further than they should.

One day I was flying an F33A in very gusty crosswind conditions (for Texas). I was trying to go to an airport that had a runway not much wider than the gear. So I did the above, took half the gust factor and added it to my approach speed w/ a max +/-3 knot total deviation, decided to crab down and transition to a slip at 100 AGL to test rudder authority, set my aim point on the numbers, and allowed myself no more than 10' off center line anytime on short final. Any deviation, I'd go around instantly. I did go around, twice, finally when I got it on the ground it was perfect. Could I have saved the first two, probably, but instead of having that debate on short final I followed my briefing.

Might be something to try.

 

[azure]

Ever been to a Cardinal Type fly-in or similar? Meet some friends that fly one so regularly the thing is like permanently attached to their butt?

Yep, good point! I think the next CFO fly-in is at Sporty's. They've always been somewhere on the other side of the country, but I am going to try to make it to that one if I can, at least for a day.

 

[azure]

You need to look harder at your options. Wakeman I64 is better aligned with those winds and almost as close to Oberlin as LPR. There is also 4G8 just east of LPR.

I64 is NOTAM'd closed. I'm not sure what the story is there, but it wasn't an option. I don't know anything about 4G8 other than that it's a good ways further east, and nearly up against the KCLE surface area.

Further, LPR has its own ASOS. With alternatives in hand you should have flown to it and listened to the ASOS while entering the pattern. Also, LPR has a 100' wide runway. THAT is the place to attempt to push your crosswind envelope because you can error on the upwind side and still have loads of room. Try the approach, give yourself a MDA just like an instrument approach, and shove throttle if you are not holding the runway steady. Divert to I64 with head held high.

Yeah, exactly (except I could divert somewhere else). I'm not 100% sure I need a CFI for this and am still wondering if I can just get over this myself. I definitely need to be more spring loaded to go around. As I said in my post, LPR is a long runway with lots of room. My only issue is that I tend to stay around longer than I should, and am a little afraid I would wait too long to get the heck back in the air.

Look, I have scrubbed flights before for crosswinds, too. But usually it is due to my home drone having undesirable winds, not my destination. Sure, forecasts calling for winds like that would make me nervous, too. But you just need to scrounge harder for alternates. What if you were airborne and those same winds, but unforecasted, sprung up? You gotta land sometime, so get good at finding alternates like you need them, because one day you might!

Okay I'm not sure what you're saying here. What's wrong with SKY or PCW? I had PLENTY of alternates. I could even have gone west to the Toledo area where the winds weren't as bad. My problem wasn't outs, I just chickened out.

 

[azure]

Wakeman is currently closed for landing (they repaved the runway) It's funny I landed just fine at LPR last night (Was with my CFI for a fun flight and I wanted xc time - it was windy but at 5p or so I got her down)

Oh, so that's the reason. Now I feel even worse. 5pm is when I would have been touching down, we would have run into each other (not literally of course).

What did the AWOS say when you were in the pattern? Just to torture myself I rang it up by cell at about 1650 and it was reporting 02017G27KT. The one thing I did notice though was the direction was fairly consistent, 010 to 020 to once 030. It might not even have been as squirrely as I was expecting.

 

[azure]

In Nebraska if you can't handle winds like that you don't fly much. Start when the winds are lower crosswinds and build your experience. The next time the winds are a little stronger go p and master them. Keep building your skill level until you reach the Max cross wind component of your aircraft.

Practice, practice, practice.

Well the thing is that after almost 900 hours I've landed in all kinds of conditions. Not quite Nebraska level winds, but I managed 16G23 at 50* a few days after my private checkride, and gusts to 20kt don't usually keep me on the ground. I didn't used to be afraid of winds, though I've never liked to fly in windy conditions because I hate turbulence. I've just started getting wind shy after what happened at 3DA.

 

[azure]

On thing that I believe helps is to talk yourself through a possibly tough landing BEFORE you get on final, decide what the approach numbers will be, what position you'll be in relative to the runway, how yore going to handle the crosswind, then tell yourself that as soon as one of those conditions isn't right I'm going around, NO inner debate or delay. Otherwise indecision can let things go way further than they should.

Exactly my problem, and that sounds like the strategy I need. Thanks!

 

[JoeSelch]

I was going to +1 Alexb's idea, but see that you already have.

Brief it in advance, set your parameters and give it a shot.
You can do this.
You have done this.
(Oh, and we don't often make the same scary mistake twice. You won't have another Dalton. [Instead you'll find a creative new way to screw up! ;-) ])

 

[Morne]

Nothing wrong with PCW, though SKY has a landing fee I think.

Just thinking that Columbia was closer to your destination of Oberlin is all.

 

[Everskyward]

Well the thing is that after almost 900 hours I've landed in all kinds of conditions. Not quite Nebraska level winds, but I managed 16G23 at 50* a few days after my private checkride, and gusts to 20kt don't usually keep me on the ground. I didn't used to be afraid of winds, though I've never liked to fly in windy conditions because I hate turbulence. I've just started getting wind shy after what happened at 3DA.

I think you probably just need to get back on the horse, so to speak. Your skill level is no different than it was before, you just had a scare. Maybe it would help with your confidence to try it on a large runway at first and work up (or down) to smaller ones.

The thing about confidence is that it's desirable to match it to your skill level. You don't want to be overconfident or let someone talk you into doing something you can't do, like in the other thread. On the other hand you don't really want to be underconfident either.

 

[saracelica]

Oh, so that's the reason. Now I feel even worse. 5pm is when I would have been touching down, we would have run into each other (not literally of course).

What did the AWOS say when you were in the pattern? Just to torture myself I rang it up by cell at about 1650 and it was reporting 02017G27KT. The one thing I did notice though was the direction was fairly consistent, 010 to 020 to once 030. It might not even have been as squirrely as I was expecting.

AWOS said it was wind from 90 and maybe gusting 15. It seemed "reasonable" As I said I had the CFI in the right seat for my "safety net" He's done some huge xwind landings for fun so I knew if I couldn't do it he'd help. He swore he didn't. The wind sock was straight out so it was pretty good. Not sure if I would've done it on my own or not. It is a funky flight pattern with the noise abatement over Oberlin college.

LPK will be my destination airport if I'm doing sight seeing flights with friends in the Cedar Point area. I64 (Wakeman) was my landing spot since it's 53nm from my home airport so it'd make every sight seeing adventure a xc.

 

[azure]

(Oh, and we don't often make the same scary mistake twice. You won't have another Dalton. [Instead you'll find a creative new way to screw up! ;-) ])

Ain't that the truth! Yep, you're probably right about that. Thanks Liz!

 

[azure]

Nothing wrong with PCW, though SKY has a landing fee I think.

Okay -- didn't know about the landing fee. PCW would actually have been my first choice alternate because of Mon Ami, and because it has an AWOS (though for some reason it's been NOTAM'd unreliable... hmmm).

Just thinking that Columbia was closer to your destination of Oberlin is all.

It wouldn't have mattered as far as getting to the seminar. Renting a car takes at least a half hour and no FBO will let you use a courtesy car for three hours. My wheels were a bicycle. From LPR, it was 4.4 miles, a little less cutting the corner using the bike trail. From Wakeman, a couple of miles farther if it had been open. No other field would have worked.

Alternates were for getting safely on the ground, not to my destination.

 

[azure]

I think you probably just need to get back on the horse, so to speak. Your skill level is no different than it was before, you just had a scare. Maybe it would help with your confidence to try it on a large runway at first and work up (or down) to smaller ones.

Yep. Though long runways can give you the illusion of having more time than you really do. What I really need is firm go-around criteria so that I don't get tempted to "ride it out" longer than I should.

The thing about confidence is that it's desirable to match it to your skill level. You don't want to be overconfident or let someone talk you into doing something you can't do, like in the other thread. On the other hand you don't really want to be underconfident either.

Good point!

 

[azure]

AWOS said it was wind from 90 and maybe gusting 15. It seemed "reasonable" As I said I had the CFI in the right seat for my "safety net" He's done some huge xwind landings for fun so I knew if I couldn't do it he'd help. He swore he didn't. The wind sock was straight out so it was pretty good. Not sure if I would've done it on my own or not. It is a funky flight pattern with the noise abatement over Oberlin college.

Yes, right pattern for 25 and they want you to avoid holding in full power on takeoff.

Well, confession time. I didn't wait until 4:50 to call the LPR AWOS, I called it several times between 4 and 5pm. I never once heard them say the wind was anywhere near 090 and it was never gusting under 20. Once I think it was just 15 without gusts. The gusts varied from 23 to 29. So if you were there yesterday and landed without instructor help, you did REALLY GOOD for being a new PP-ASEL. Give yourself a pat on the back!

LPK will be my destination airport if I'm doing sight seeing flights with friends in the Cedar Point area. I64 (Wakeman) was my landing spot since it's 53nm from my home airport so it'd make every sight seeing adventure a xc.

I was to LPR once before, a couple weeks after buying my plane when a red boarder based there wanted to see it up close. I've never been to I64 though. I google earthed it the other night and it seemed to be just a runway with a parking area off the north end, no parallel taxiway or T-hangars. What else is there?

 

[saracelica]

There is NOTHING else at Wakeman. Barely even a town. There is a race car shop there but that's a bit from the airport. The runway has a groove to allow water to run off. Next time you're out that way take a looksy. The fun part is trying to find the place in the dark (did it for my night dual xc) It's tough. Seeing it in the light makes it MUCH easier.

(I'm not 100% sure my CFI didn't help with the landing but he said he didn't and who am I to argue)

 

[jnmeade]

Lots of practice help cross-wind landings. Here are a few suggestions for your contemplation as appropriate:
1. Stay in the moment all the time. Too many times we see students who are allowed to plop the plane down and "drive" it to the hangar. This is one spot where tail wheel practice is good because with much wind you are encouraged to stay right on top of the airplane - it talks to you and responds better if you are alert. So, never let down your situational awareness and feel. This means in the air as well as on the ground.
2. Know the environment. During the pattern, always remind yourself of what the wind is doing and where it is coming from. As you descend, be aware that often the wind will slightly change direction and speed. Expect this. Address it immediately. Look for trees, buildings and other sources of mechanical turbulence. Predict where the wind will eddy and gust around them and be ready to address it, even lead the change a little.
3. Be firm, even aggressive on the controls. Active. Act and react quite quickly to wind and gust inputs - don't let the wind push you around - you push right back Right away.
4. Make the plane go where you want it to go. If you can't do it safely, abort.
5. Know the preferred landing configuration. Upwind main, then nose, then downwind main. How is the steering connected? Be ready to neutrlize rudder or hold rudder as your plane calls for when the nose wheel settles.

As a matter of course, when you are flying around, use the crosswind runway. Yes. Normally (unless you will interfere or it's otherwise not appropriate). That way, you are always thinking crosswind and you'll get lots of 60 degree 10 knot landings that you'll grow quite comfortable with.

As others have suggested, work you way up to it but do it by using good technique. Don't work your way up by landing like normally and seeing how much sideload you can handle. Work you way up by increasing the amount of crosswind technique you use so you develop skill and confidence as you go. A good grosswind landing is very satisfying and a thing of pride. (Don't push harder than you should, though)

 

[HerrGruyere]

I used to be terrified of crosswinds but I am gaining more confidence. I'm a student pilot nearing 30 hours. It just takes practice and confidence in your skills and the plane. I used to despise crosswinds, but with more time I look forward to 'em... occasionally.

 

[somorris]

3. Be firm, even aggressive on the controls. Active. Act and react quite quickly to wind and gust inputs - don't let the wind push you around - you push right back Right away.

You hit my technique right on the head, Jim. Sometimes, though, I think I am TOO ham handed. When you're landing in gusty cross winds worrying about the wing (on a high wing Cessna) hitting the ground because of what you have to do to stay lined up, you (or at least I do) start questioning your technique.

I think the flight Azure scrubbed would not have been much fun. It is one thing to mess around at your home airport with fairly high winds, but it makes a person a little more nervous when taking off knowing the winds are going to be up pretty good and you are landing at an unfamiliar airport.

 

[j1b3h0]

Alexb- Mr Meade makes some good points. My 2 cents...You know that old saw, 'it's better to be on the ground, wishing you were in the air, than vise-versa'? You made a sensible, no-go decision, kudos. I'm pretty experienced, but when the winds pipe up to 25kts or above, it gives me pause.

Crosswind landings are one of those areas of flight training that sometimes get short shrift, just because there might not be any conditions in which to teach them. What I do with my students is find an airport with a 10-15 knot crosswind component that you can do pattern work. After I've spent some time explaining the mechanics (gymnastics!) of crosswind landings to my student, we practice approaches to said runway - but, instead of landing, we fly over the runway centerline at about 3ft...for the whole length of the runway, keeping the heading aligned with the centerline, arresting the sink rate with power and pitch, and the drift across the runway with bank into the wind. If you can't arrest the drift across the runway - while aligning the nose with the runway, DON'T LAND. Experiment with flap settings. With a mile or so of practice each time around the patch, within a half hour the mystery about crosswind landing has vanished - then we start doing the actual landings, with very tight parameters...if the mains aren't straddling the centerline, that's not good enough. The low flying above the runway is essential to learn another VERY IMPORTANT skill: The skill to determine - while over the runway, wrestling with the crosswind, that it wouldn't be safe to land! You don't have to land - but you have to know whether it can be done safely before touchdown. Good luck!

 

[j1b3h0]

Almost forgot; the time spent - wing low, aligning with the runway also helps a person know how much crosswing is too much. Better to make future go/no go decisions. Of course it sounds like you've already got that down.

 

[azure]

Stacey is of course correct, it wouldn't have been fun at all. But it would have been good experience, assuming I kept it together and used good judgement when deciding whether to land or go around. And I was certainly in a good mind frame to fly in difficult conditions, which is partly why I second guessed my decision.

I'm sort of torn between two paradigms when it comes to crosswind landings: 1) DON'T go out practicing in windy conditions since Mother Nature can always spring a gust on you that you can't adequately correct for, and if it happens at the point where you're most vulnerable (right after touchdown), you may not have an out; and 2) you always HAVE to have an out, the trick is making sure you really do and knowing when you should exercise it. I tend to think that both paradigms have merit, and the likelihood of being thrown a curve that's beyond your and the aircraft's capabilities increases the stronger the winds get. However the odds of it being beyond the aircraft's capabilities in a 25 kt crosswind are probably pretty small and it's likelier that the pilot will simply not react in time. The way I understand AlexB's advice and that of several others is that it's possible to improve your odds considerably by setting firm criteria for a go around and following them without hesitating for a moment. That's what I hope to do in the future.

I've never actually done the fly the length of the runway 3 feet up without landing though I've heard that some CFI's use it to teach their primary students how to accurately learn how to apply aileron and rudder for lateral control and directional alignment. I think I'm pretty good at keeping the aircraft under horizontal control while it's still in the air -- but keeping the aircraft from hitting the mains on the runway would be pretty hard in the kind of winds we've had here lately. Today I couldn't fly a glidepath to save my life -- there were very strong updrafts and downdrafts everywhere and the wind would go from 0kt to 15kt and back again in the blink of an eye. On takeoff with my instructor we were climbing at 70kts, but the stall horn was chirping momentarily, apparently due to fleeting wind variations. The only other place I've encountered winds like that was at MCD. As reported they didn't sound bad at all, but they were squirrely in the extreme.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Alexb2000]

Today I couldn't fly a glidepath to save my life -- there were very strong updrafts and downdrafts everywhere and the wind would go from 0kt to 15kt and back again in the blink of an eye. On takeoff with my instructor we were climbing at 70kts, but the stall horn was chirping momentarily, apparently due to fleeting wind variations. The only other place I've encountered winds like that was at MCD. As reported they didn't sound bad at all, but they were squirrely in the extreme.

If you still don't mind discussing it I wanted to ad another comment.

We all have a little different style in our flying, one thing that I do that is different from a lot of pilots when flying the glideslope in gusty, turbulent conditions, is nothing. Really, almost nothing. I focus on just setting the airplane up right as I mentioned before and then I just ride it down. No power changes, control inputs, or rudder (crabbed). Just basically get it lined up and do just enough to hold it there, which isn't much. I go up and down with the winds, bounce around, if it gusts I'll give it just enough aileron to hold alignment, no power changes (unless I mis-judged the wind turning final). If I do this right then at the bottom, I'm trimmed, on speed, on power, on slope, and crabbed naturally into the wind. Most importantly my mind is relaxed and well prepared for the landing. The ride down may have been really rough, yet I ended up where I want to be without chasing it with all kinds of input, which destabilizes the approach, and gets you going all over the place.

Then I reduce power just like any landing. BTW I'm using full flaps just like my normal landings (they all should be normal IMO). These landings are slow compared to most. For example in a 206 I'll typically cross the numbers at 60-65 even in a 25 Knot cross. The reason is I don't want any excess energy close to the ground, especially with a crosswind. Then I can straighten it out with rudder/sideslip put the upwind wheel down, crank the aileron to the stop, pull the flaps, and I'm stopped in less than a 1000' no drama.

Most of my bad experiences have come from getting near or on the ground with a lot of energy and excess lift (added speed compensating for the crosswind and gusts logic), getting picked back up, high siding, swerving side to side, etc. None of this can happen if you don't have any energy left.

Every airplane is a little different so it may not work exactly the same for you, but perhaps it's something to discuss/consider.

 

[azure]

I don't mind discussing it at all!

I think I should strive to NOT chase the glideslope in turbulence for the reason you say, that it destabilizes the approach. Basically the reason I fly the way I do is that I don't trust that I will encounter as much downdraft as updraft over the course of the approach -- but it might be better to determine that by trial and error and only add power if it's absolutely needed. If there's too much up, then go around and adjust my turning point. I've thought about doing that, I probably should just do it.

I usually land with 20 of flaps in really windy conditions. I've found that 30 makes the plane too much of a kite, too hard to control. I agree about landing with as little energy as is safe -- adding half the gust factor and no more. My airplane seems to be kind of unique among Cardinals in that I really have to NAIL my airspeed exactly, there isn't a lot of margin for error. My target airspeed is 67.5 kts: 65 is too slow, the controls get mushy and my sink rate is disturbingly high and it increases VERY quickly below that; 70 and I'll bounce at least once, any faster and it WILL be more than once. That was NOT the case with the first 177RG I flew, where 60-65 KIAS with just me, solo, was just fine on final and it wasn't that critical. That's one reason I want to make it to the next Cardinal fly-in, where someone who knows the breed can tell me if there's something amiss with the airfoil. Also the powerplant: today when the stall horn was chirping right after takeoff, we were only climbing at about 200 fpm at first even though I was at full power. Then suddenly that turned to 1000 fpm without warning and I concluded that it had been a downdraft. But later on in a hold at 21/2300 with approach flaps, level flight, the ASI showed 75-80 KIAS for about 5 minutes straight. A large area of sinking air? Maybe. Normally at those settings I would be seeing 100 KIAS in level flight. And a few minutes later at 24 squared on the way back home, I was pushing 130 KIAS again. It might have just been conditions. But I'm not 100% sure.

 

[denverpilot]

You sure you don't have a pitot static system problem?

 

[azure]

You sure you don't have a pitot static system problem?

That was my CFII's first thought. But a pitot-static system problem wouldn't affect ground speed. When the ASI was showing 75-80 KIAS in the hold, we were seeing ground speeds of 65 kts outbound into the wind and 95-100 kts inbound. Ground speeds were generally consistent with IAS.

 

[pilot117]

Ed has a reasonable amount of time in my Cardinal and I'm sure would willing to fly with you. Tony Smit is the airport manager and instructor at Y70. He probably has several hundred hours instructing in various Cardinals.

I am willing to fly with you and offer advice but I'm not a CFI so you couldn't log the time as dual. I find that many people fly their final approach in the Cardinal too fast and that leads to a need for greater precision and more float in the flare. I think the Cardinal does a good job in cross wind conditions. I've only ever felt like I was running out of rudder authority one time and it was in Sydney, NE and the wind was gusting over 40kts.

 

[azure]

Ed has a reasonable amount of time in my Cardinal and I'm sure would willing to fly with you. Tony Smit is the airport manager and instructor at Y70. He probably has several hundred hours instructing in various Cardinals.

I don't recall, is yours a FG or RG? The main difference would be in the airspeeds rather than landing characteristics, I'd think, but many people seem to expect a lot more speed increase from folding the wheels up than I've ever seen.

And thanks for reminding me, I know they have a lot of experience with Cardinals at Y70, it's why I picked them for replacing my windshield... and the spar carrythrough. I think I probably met Tony briefly the first time I was there.