Concorde

denverpilot said:
I hadn't heard much if anything about any of this.

Don't know how much is true, but I found it a fascinating read and figured I'd share.

http://www.askthepilot.com/untold-concorde-story/
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I have heard parts of this story from my French CFI. He uses this crash, AF447 and a few others to tell fellow pilots to STAY AWAY from Air France. He states that their pilot training, aircraft maintenance, and management are crap. That aircraft are often flown in illegal fashion to keep costs down and profits high. Also he says that Airbus and BEA hide information that would lead to official probes into Air France's inside workings.

Some family friends told him that Air France and BEA knew were AF447 black boxes were the whole time. But that AF didn't want the boxes retrieved because of high costs of retrieval and the liability of the information on those tapes.

Breakdown of CRM and procedures led to both this and the crash of AF447.
 
I know it is a little irrelevant, but I was on vacation in Moorea (an island off of Tahiti) for New Years the following year. And I met a Frenchman who said that he was running the airport in Tahiti for a year, as a reward for discovering the cause (debris on the runway). I sat at a table with him and he was treated as a local celebrity.
 
John221us said:
I know it is a little irrelevant, but I was on vacation in Moorea (an island off of Tahiti) for New Years the following year. And I met a Frenchman who said that he was running the airport in Tahiti for a year, as a reward for discovering the cause (debris on the runway). I sat at a table with him and he was treated as a local celebrity.
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Is that the French equivalent of "being shipped off to Alaska"? :lol:

I bet he had a year long vacation. I would love to tour the south pacific as I'm a huge diving enthusiast.
 
ARFlyer said:
Is that the French equivalent of "being shipped off to Alaska"? :lol:

I bet he had a year long vacation. I would love to tour the south pacific as I'm a huge diving enthusiast.
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He said he got to choose his assignment. It was definitely considered a reward.
 
ARFlyer said:
Is that the French equivalent of "being shipped off to Alaska"? :lol:

I bet he had a year long vacation. I would love to tour the south pacific as I'm a huge diving enthusiast.
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BTW, the diving was just OK in Moorea. I know there are better dive spots in the South Pacific. The snorkeling was spectacular, though (only about 5 to 10 feet) and the reefs were alive. Their big thing was a shark dive. They took us down to 100 feet and we hung on to a rock, while they fed sharks (once was enough).
 
John221us said:
BTW, the diving was just OK in Moorea. I know there are better dive spots in the South Pacific. The snorkeling was spectacular, though (only about 5 to 10 feet) and the reefs were alive. Their big thing was a shark dive. They took us down to 100 feet and we hung on to a rock, while they fed sharks (once was enough).
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Yap, Bikini and Truk.
 
Tahiti because the found debris was an American piece of FOD. If it had been French I bet his 'reward' would have been less grandiose.
 
The problem, when you have ab initio training and stay with the line for life, is that you have no ability to see that the kool-aid is in fact, kool-aid. This is NOT a competitive environment. An average American Transport captain has seen his line bankrupted, sold, merged THREE times, and so has been through at least 3, usually 4-5 training departments.

I've seen them in sim. Domestic pilots are ROBUST.
 
ARFlyer said:
I have heard parts of this story from my French CFI. He uses this crash, AF447 and a few others to tell fellow pilots to STAY AWAY from Air France. He states that their pilot training, aircraft maintenance, and management are crap. That aircraft are often flown in illegal fashion to keep costs down and profits high. Also he says that Airbus and BEA hide information that would lead to official probes into Air France's inside workings.

Some family friends told him that Air France and BEA knew were AF447 black boxes were the whole time. But that AF didn't want the boxes retrieved because of high costs of retrieval and the liability of the information on those tapes.

Breakdown of CRM and procedures led to both this and the crash of AF447.
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I heard it referred to as "Air France, Air Chance" more than 50 years ago. Looks like nothing has changed.

Dave
 
bbchien said:
The problem, when you have ab initio training and stay with the line for life, is that you have no ability to see that the kool-aid is in fact, kool-aid. This is NOT a competitive environment. An average American Transport captain has seen his line bankrupted, sold, merged THREE times, and so has been through at least 3, usually 4-5 training departments.

I've seen them in sim. Domestic pilots are ROBUST.
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Indirectly, you're saying that business mismanagement and failures lead to better commercial pilots. Heh.

Also not sure it holds up completely... Are you saying a lifetime UA guy or gal is less "robust" than their counterpart who got tossed from TWA, then tossed at Frontier, then merged in from CO into UA?

(I picked UA since they're a traditional old carrier who's managed to survive longer than most. Pick any old name carrier.)

I understand the sentiment, but there's more to this "robustness" than just being bounced between companies.
 
denverpilot said:
.....

Also not sure it holds up completely... Are you saying a lifetime UA guy or gal is less "robust" than their counterpart who got tossed from TWA, then tossed at Frontier, then merged in from CO into UA?

(I picked UA since they're a traditional old carrier who's managed to survive longer than most. Pick any old name carrier.)

I understand the sentiment, but there's more to this "robustness" than just being bounced between companies.
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Know of maybe a handful of UA people that haven't been through at least one other training department (interns). Everybody came from either another airline or the military. Seen some folks that have been at two or three major airlines (Pan AM, Eastern, TWA, Braniff) before they got to UAL. There is something to be said for depth of experience. Luckily, UAL has always had a great training department so even the one airline guys are sharp.
 
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