Composite flight plans vs Air Filing

[AdamZ]

Say you file a composite flight plan you take off of a nontowered field where you normally have to call Departure on the cell for your clearance and release.

You fly VFR to the ABC VOR which is where you want the IFR portion of your flight plan to take effect.

How would you go about activating the IFR portion? Do you get a clearance and release in the air like you would normally get on the ground? Can you get the clearance by phone on the ground and then call App for the "clearance" in the air a few miles before you get to the VOR?

OR

Would it be better to Air File the entire plan with FSS then pick up the clearance and "release" from the designated App Control?

Finally if you air file or do a composite flight plan with the first part being VFR do they actually give you a "release" I mean your already in the air?

 

[Michael]

what does it matter if your in a metal or composite airplane?

 

[tonycondon]

call center on the local frequency at that VOR and get your clearance adam.

 

[markb5900]

From my understanding the composite flight plan is used more for a "vfr on top" situation than what you are describing Adam.
For your situation I would just do what Tony said. File the IFR flight plan with the VOR or whatever being the starting point, then call ATC once airborne and near that point and pick up your clearance.

Mark B.

 

[SkyHog]

You know, when doing my 141 ground class for the IR, this was one of those things I did not get at all. Why would you file a composite flight plan? Just file IFR from the point you need it.

But, from what I remember, you activate the VFR portion of the composite flight plan with FSS, and then you close the VFR portion with FSS before you activate your IFR portion with the controlling agency for the airspace you are in.

 

[SCCutler]

You know, when doing my 141 ground class for the IR, this was one of those things I did not get at all. Why would you file a composite flight plan? Just file IFR from the point you need it.

Nick, this is one of those, "I fly in the beautiful and completely uncrowded deset southwest" questions.

Envision busy fields, crowded airspace, etc. Hear, in your mind, the words, "Hold short, clearance on request, awaiting release."

Time ticks by. Your wife snarls at you. You watch VFR aircraft departing one by one. You wait.

That's why you might choose to depart VFR, and pick up IFR downstream a bit...

...also, f'rinstance, you're departing a field with no payphone (so few left...), no cell coverage and no RCAG. How you gonna get off?

 

[bbchien]

Nick, this is one of those, "I fly in the beautiful and completely uncrowded deset southwest" questions.

Envision busy fields, crowded airspace, etc. Hear, in your mind, the words, "Hold short, clearance on request, awaiting release."

Time ticks by. Your wife snarls at you. You watch VFR aircraft departing one by one. You wait.

That's why you might choose to depart VFR, and pick up IFR downstream a bit...

...also, f'rinstance, you're departing a field with no payphone (so few left...), no cell coverage and no RCAG. How you gonna get off?

Not an option in Dee-JAGo (chi appcon space). Youse never getting a clearance, and you have to run the gauntlet of all the other VFRs in teh 1600 foot sandwich above the 1800 ft towers and below the 3,500 shelf. Sigh.

 

[ScottM]

Not an option in Dee-JAGo (chi appcon space). Youse never getting a clearance, and you have to run the gauntlet of all the other VFRs in teh 1600 foot sandwich above the 1800 ft towers and below the 3,500 shelf. Sigh.

It is not immposible but doable. The other day it was IMC and I called departure to get clearence. With 1mi HZ they ask, "can't you depart VFR and pick it up in the air" No I reply and then they stay "hang on" in a resigned tone of having to offer services and come back a short time later with the clearence. Most of the time I do just pick it up in the air and they are accomendating. But it scares me that one day I may hear "unable" and there I will be in MVFR without an IFR clearence.

In one of those thing I don't understand about ATC when I leave my home airport I always get the statement "upon entering controlled airspace turn to a heading a 180 and climb...". It does not matter what direction of flight I am going on Chi-app always has us on a 180 heading when departing 10C. Something in the way the route traffic, might have something to do with one of the main entry points for Chicago air traffic.

 

[bbchien]

It is not immposible but doable. The other day it was IMC and I called departure to get clearence. With 1mi HZ they ask, "can't you depart VFR and pick it up in the air" No I reply and then they stay "hang on" in a resigned tone of having to offer services and come back a short time later with the clearence. Most of the time I do just pick it up in the air and they are accomendating. But it scares me that one day I may hear "unable" and there I will be in MVFR without an IFR clearence.

In one of those thing I don't understand about ATC when I leave my home airport I always get the statement "upon entering controlled airspace turn to a heading a 180 and climb...". It does not matter what direction of flight I am going on Chi-app always has us on a 180 heading when departing 10C. Something in the way the route traffic, might have something to do with one of the main entry points for Chicago air traffic.

Well, good to hear. 'course 10C is almost out from under the curse of the shelf......

 

[ScottM]

Well, good to hear. 'course 10C is almost out from under the curse of the shelf......

True, I have headed towards RFD a couple of time when I knew I would not get the routing I wanted just to pick up a clearence. That is mostly when I want to head west but don't want to fly to EON first.

 

[ejensen]

Don't forget to close the VFR portion with FSS.

 

[mattaxelrod]

call center on the local frequency at that VOR and get your clearance adam.

I've done this before too. The only downside is that you need to be prepared to copy down the clearance, read it back, and figure it all out, on the fly (literally). If it's not at all what you were expecting to get, you might have your hands full.

 

[4CornerFlyer]

One reason to do a composite plan is that you have a long flight, most of which is in excellent VFR weather, but you might need an IFR letdown or approach. In this case, why not file the VFR flight plan to your destination, plus an IFR plan to start where you think you might need it. If you update weather enroute, you can decide whether you want to activate the IFR portion.

Another reason is to avoid all the ridiculous routings in some parts of the country where approach control fiefdoms rule the airspace. In another thread someone made a joking reference about a NJ to Boston route by way of Toronto. Well, that's a slight exaggeration, but only slight. An IFR flight plan from Burlington, VT to the NJ coast sends you out to Wilkes-Barre, PA. If you don't have a map in front of you, take my word for it that this is a long detour. To avoid this I would go VFR east of NY, then get the usual single engine routing, which approximates the course line. Similar example can be found of just about any of the major Class B areas, and of coourse some are much more GA friendly than others.

Yes, one of the great pleasures of the southwest is dealing with large- sector center controllers and nearly always getting "cleared as filed" or direct wherever.

If I expect to need an IFR clearance later in the flight, I think it is better to file a flight plan that I may or may not use than to try to get a pick-up clearance from a busy controller, who may tell me (justifiably) to go file something with flight service then come back to him. If a plan is on file, all I have to say is "N252MR over Gipper, IFR London, Ontario," (a true example from a couple weeks ago). He will already have a strip on my flight, and issuing the clearance takes only a few seconds. While there are exceptions, and airborne clearance will almost always result in "cleared as filed" initially. If there is a rerouting, that will come aftera few minutes when things are settled.

You have to know which frequency to call on to get your clearance. Look at either the approach plate or AFD entry for the nearest airport to your position and use the frequency for departure control for that airport if you're relatively low. If you're 10,000 or above, pick the center sector frequency from the enroute low chart. Even if it's not correct, at least that controller will know where to send you. If all else fails, call FSS for clearance. They will either relay it from center, or tell you whom to contact. It's a painless process.

There are many on this board who subscribe to the belief that it's better to go IFR on every cross-country flight. I'm not one of them. I love the flexibility VFR offers as far as routings and altitudes, and almost total lack of traffic in the mid-teens, so I try to go VFR unless I have a reason not to.

Jon