Complex Time

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Feb 23, 2005
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Everything Offends Me
Today was fun! I did 1.7 hours complex in a PA28R-200. I had a tough time controlling the plane at first with turbulence, but got it down after a few turns and what not. Did 5 landings to get that down as well.

I love that plane, it's so fun to fly! I'm trying to get my complex signoff before Gastons so that I'll be qualified to log some time in Michael's Mooney on the way out there. I don't know if I can go back to the 172 now!
 
If you liked the PA28R-200, wait until fly the Mooney. It's like flying a little sports car. You won't want to go back to the 172.
 
NickDBrennan said:
I love that plane, it's so fun to fly! I'm trying to get my complex signoff before Gastons so that I'll be qualified to log some time in Michael's Mooney on the way out there. I don't know if I can go back to the 172 now!
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You may understand all this in detail - but just for grins.

On what basis do you expect to log time in the Mooney, and on that basis why do you think you need a complex signoff?
 
CFIse said:
On what basis do you expect to log time in the Mooney, and on that basis why do you think you need a complex signoff?
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I believe Nick bases his assumption on logging time in the mooney on the fact I told him he could, as long as he has the complex signoff. He will be up front and could log PIC.
 
Michael said:
I believe Nick bases his assumption on logging time in the mooney on the fact I told him he could, as long as he has the complex signoff. He will be up front and could log PIC.
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The complex signoff may be an insurance requirement, And maybe your personal requirement, but Nick does not need it to log PIC of your Mooney as long as you are there to be the actual acting PIC. See 61.51(e) for the details.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
The complex signoff may be an insurance requirement, And maybe your personal requirement, but Nick does not need it to log PIC of your Mooney as long as you are there to be the actual acting PIC. See 61.51(e) for the details.
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Insurance is an issue. the FARs are unclear to me here...
Far Part 61.51 A private or commercial pilot may log PIC time if that person is "the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated" [61.51 (e)(1)(i)]
The above states that he can log PIC if he is rated..not endorsed. I am unclear if rated means endorsed or not.

Michael
 
Michael said:
Insurance is an issue. the FARs are unclear to me here...
Far Part 61.51 A private or commercial pilot may log PIC time if that person is "the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated" [61.51 (e)(1)(i)]
The above states that he can log PIC if he is rated..not endorsed. I am unclear if rated means endorsed or not.
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The FAA Chief Counsel's office has stated in a written opinion that "rated" means category, class, and (if applicable) type ratings. Additional training endorsements are not "ratings," are required only to act as PIC, and are not part of being "rated" for the purposes of logging time per 61.51(e)(1)(i).
 
Logging time has always been a big debate. In my opinion, regardless of the FARs or insurance requirements, you have to ask yourself if you really gained experience during that time. For example, you might log time while sitting in the left seat. However if it's straight and level with the autopilot going, are you really in control? My philosophical .02.

I'm still learning every flight...
 
AirBaker said:
Logging time has always been a big debate. In my opinion, regardless of the FARs or insurance requirements, you have to ask yourself if you really gained experience during that time. For example, you might log time while sitting in the left seat. However if it's straight and level with the autopilot going, are you really in control?
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AirBaker's point is well taken, but from a 61.51 logging standpoint, if you're the one twisting the knobs on the a/p, you're the "sole manipulator" and you get to log it as such. OTOH, you can often learn a lot sitting in the right seat under circumstances in which you can't log the time. C'est la loi.
 
Ahh - but either way - flying the Mooney or not, I love the Piper enough to feel that this training is actually necessary for me to fly this plane. Its fun, and its fast!

Plus, it's kinda fun to say "Red, Blue, Green, Runway's Clean"
 
NickDBrennan said:
Plus, it's kinda fun to say "Red, Blue, Green, Runway's Clean"
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OK...that took me a minute to figure out. :<)

There is a similar one for seaplanes on the water to remind you to retract the water rudder, clear the area and advance the throttle but I can't think of it at the moment.

Len
 
NickDBrennan said:
Plus, it's kinda fun to say "Red, Blue, Green, Runway's Clean"
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There will be two other guys in the mooney with you nick, If you start spouting out them cute phrases we might have to take you out back and beat ya with a stick.

Michael
 
Michael,

On departure which camp are you in...raise the gear first or raise the flaps first?

I forget if you mentioned previously do you have manual or electric gear?

Len
 
Michael said:
There will be two other guys in the mooney with you nick, If you start spouting out them cute phrases we might have to take you out back and beat ya with a stick.

Michael
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Come on, Michael, you trying to tell me you don't have any silly sayings to remember important items?

I'll say it under my breath so as to avoid the stick beating :goofy:
 
Len Lanetti said:
Michael,

On departure which camp are you in...raise the gear first or raise the flaps first?

I forget if you mentioned previously do you have manual or electric gear?

Len
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Um..We'll be lucky if I remember to raise either of them Len. But..when i do remember, Usually I will raise the gear, then flaps. I have the Manual gear.

I was trying to figure out what you ment by what camp i was in at gastons, and why that would be an issue if i raised the gear or flaps first, but i caught on after re reading your post.

Michael
 
NickDBrennan said:
Come on, Michael, you trying to tell me you don't have any silly sayings to remember important items?

I'll say it under my breath so as to avoid the stick beating :goofy:
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Just teasin you. But no..I dont have any cute little sayings. LOL
 
Michael said:
There will be two other guys in the mooney with you nick, If you start spouting out them cute phrases we might have to take you out back and beat ya with a stick.

Michael
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Michael,

This is "Nitro" you're bashing here. If you watched his video, I'd go easy. Of course you're promising Mooney PIC time so you can probably get away with a whole lot more :D
 
drhunt said:
Michael,

This is "Nitro" you're bashing here. If you watched his video, I'd go easy. Of course you're promising Mooney PIC time so you can probably get away with a whole lot more :D
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Nitro? Is that anything like robin from batman fame? with the cute little spandex?
Notice i said "We"...I dint plan on doing any of the beatings. LOL
 
Good plan...and I'd have way more than two guys if anybody's planning to take a stick to Nitro...right Nick?
 
Michael said:
Nitro? Is that anything like robin from batman fame? with the cute little spandex?
Notice i said "We"...I dint plan on doing any of the beatings. LOL
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Anyone who saw my oversized body in spandex up close when I wrestled would have never used the word "cute" to describe it. :)

It's easy for a fat man in tight clothes to get people to hate you! :yes:
 
NickDBrennan said:
I did 1.7 hours complex in a PA28R-200.
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Nick, FYI, when you go to file a flight plan the descriptive PA28R won't work as it's a max 4 figure field - correct descriptor is P28R.
 
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