Complex checkout with Simulator and AGI?

[TK211X]

Can a legal complex endorsement be made with a Simulator and an AGI?

I was approached with the idea by a recently minted AGI. He pointed at some FARs said the complex only requires ground training and there is no actual flight time required other than an FAA approved simulator representative of a complex aircraft. (That the flight school has and I can rent)

Obviously I wont go and hop into a complex by myself just with sim time and ink in my logbook.

The question is it legal to do so with only an AGI and a Simulator? How about a CFI and a simulator?

My reasoning is, if it's legal, i'd do it just to get the endorsement and ground knowledge. Then go out and get some real dual in a complex until I feel comfortable and safe.

 

[dmspilot]

(e) Additional training required for operating complex airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a complex airplane, unless the person has—

(i) Received and logged ground and flight training from an authorized instructor in a complex airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a complex airplane, and has been found proficient in the operation and systems of the airplane; and

(ii) Received a one-time endorsement in the pilot's logbook from an authorized instructor who certifies the person is proficient to operate a complex airplane.

Unfortunately a ground instructor can't give training in any kind of simulator (at least not training that's worth anything)–see 61.215. I believe there are also Chief Counsel letters asserting this.

 

[hook_dupin]

Unfortunately a ground instructor can't give training in any kind of simulator (at least not training that's worth anything)–see 61.215. I believe there are also Chief Counsel letters asserting this.

The Gatlin letter is the first of many that say "Ground instructors can only do what is in 61.215"



http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...2010/gatlin - (2010) legal interpretation.pdf

 

[\__[Ô]__/]

Can a legal complex endorsement be made with a Simulator and an AGI?

I was approached with the idea by a recently minted AGI. He pointed at some FARs said the complex only requires ground training and there is no actual flight time required other than an FAA approved simulator representative of a complex aircraft. (That the flight school has and I can rent)

I'm going to guess that the flight school doesn't actually have an FAA approved flight simulator that would qualify for this. There are specific requirements to be an approved "flight simulator" or "flight training device". The majority of so-called simulators do not qualify for either of those labels. So this may be a no-go even with a CFI doing the training.

My reasoning is, if it's legal, i'd do it just to get the endorsement and ground knowledge. Then go out and get some real dual in a complex until I feel comfortable and safe.

I'm confused. Assuming you can do it this way, why would you want to? If you're planning to got out and do dual in a complex plane anyway, why not just do the endorsement while you're doing the dual flights? You can certainly incorporate simulator training into the process but what's motivation for wanting to do the entire thing in a simulator?

 

[flyingron]

The only thing ground trainers are really useful for is instrument instruction and yes you need a FLIGHT instructor certificate to make useful logging of it.