Complex Aircraft to build time?

[Tom-D]

Since it's not a keeper, purchase price isn't really important because he'll get it back when he sells it after completing training.

Best update your market analysis, in this market he'll not get nearly what you think.

 

[poadeleted20]

Well, then of course, he should buy a new Arrow (someone has to).

He's got $110K, not $400K.

 

[poadeleted20]

Why are there only older Piper Arrows? I haven't seen but one Piper Arrow that is 2000 and up?

As far as I can tell from FAA data, there have been about 130 Arrows built since 2000. Not a lot, but they're out there.

 

[poadeleted20]

Well I live in Lubbock Texas. No mountains or anything. So I would guess that a non turbo would be better where I live.

Yes, it would, give your intended use.

 

[poadeleted20]

What would be a good bonanza? Aren't they a little more pricey and more maintenance costs?

Yes, thanks to their thirstier engines with more cylinders to maintain/overhaul, and many of them do not have dual controls (big problem for the training you want to do). Henning has a real "thing" for Bonanzas, and for a personal traveling plane, I think they're a great choice. But for your purposes I strongly recommend the Arrow over the Bonanza.

BTW, unlike some of the other commenters, I've done a lot of instructing over the last 40 years in every one of the complex singles mentioned so far except the Lancair 360 homebuilt, and for many reasons including (but not limited to) comfort and flying characteristics, I'd rather give the training you want in an Arrow than in an Mooney.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

You're gonna be paying a bit more for maintenance on a Comanche due to limited supplies...plus it's a bit underpowered and doesn't qualify as HP.

Only if it's a 180. Comanches also came in 250, 260, and 400hp versions.

Also, who really cares about HP? You don't need it for any ratings and it's pretty worthless in the grand scheme of things (I have tons of HP time and it's never done me a bit of good to my knowledge).

Really, all HP does is burn gas (and money).

The general rule is to get more horsepower first. Turbo only after there is no more horsepower to be had.

Why don't you have a Comanche 400 then?

 

[ChitDisturber]

Only if it's a 180. Comanches also came in 250, 260, and 400hp versions.

Also, who really cares about HP? You don't need it for any ratings and it's pretty worthless in the grand scheme of things (I have tons of HP time and it's never done me a bit of good to my knowledge).

Really, all HP does is burn gas (and money).



Why don't you have a Comanche 400 then?

The comanch 180 is a GREAT plane, I've had them in DA conditions, un-improved strips, they handle great, cruse quick and economical.

As for HP, yea get the endorsement, however logging HP time aint worth much, now RG, tailwheel, multi, turbine, cross country, night and IMC that's what can help you later on


FYI, when it come to buying a HP machine, remember a good rule of thumb

Horsepower divided by 2 = fuel burn in lbs at 100% throttle.

So 180hp is about 10.5 GPH at 70%

250hp is 14.5GPH at 70%

That's about about a 27% higher fuel burn for the 250 for probably only a 12% higher cruse, as I seem to remember the 180 giving me a IAS of 140 and the 250 was more like a IAS of 160.

Most people also prefer the manual flaps commonly found in the 180s, So unless you needed the extended tanks that were available on the 250s I'd stick with a 180

 

[poadeleted20]

I would also note that the OP is looking to build time, and you can only do that at the rate of 1 hour per hour no matter how many HP your plane has or how fast it goes. Sure, you can pull a 250 back to 180 fuel flows and get almost the same speed (the 250 being heavier will always burn more at the same speed), but the maintenance cost per hour of two more cylinders will be significantly greater.

 

[Henning]

I would also note that the OP is looking to build time, and you can only do that at the rate of 1 hour per hour no matter how many HP your plane has or how fast it goes. Sure, you can pull a 250 back to 180 fuel flows and get almost the same speed (the 250 being heavier will always burn more at the same speed), but the maintenance cost per hour of two more cylinders will be significantly greater.

The maintenance costs of two more cylinders is insignificant over 1400 hrs, plus there is the fact that the overall maintenance costs may actually be reduced by loafing the engine at 55% power instead of 75%. Operated properly an engine can easily go TBO and beyond with no cylinder work or other major maintenance.

 

[poadeleted20]

The maintenance costs of two more cylinders is insignificant over 1400 hrs, plus there is the fact that the overall maintenance costs may actually be reduced by loafing the engine at 55% power instead of 75%. Operated properly an engine can easily go TBO and beyond with no cylinder work or other major maintenance.

Who said anything about 1400 hours? This was just for commercial and IR -- not to mention that in a few thousand hours of flight instructing, I've yet to see anyone with the self-discipline to keep the power that low in flight.

 

[Henning]

He needs 1500 hrs. Come fly with me sometime, I've always had the discipline to run my engines for best efficiency and longevity.

 

[poadeleted20]

He needs 1500 hrs.

Where do you see that in:

Okay, so what is a good complex aircraft to get my instrument rating and commercial? A used aircraft but still with good time and maintenance will not be a big problem. And will be putting hours on it. Which aircraft are good for this mission? Just give me aircraft names and why you think it would be good.

Or are you assuming he's bound for the airlines and 1500 hours of 250 Comanche time is going to get him in the door at a 121 carrier?

 

[Henning]

Where do you see that in:
Or are you assuming he's bound for the airlines and 1500 hours of 250 Comanche time is going to get him in the door at a 121 carrier?

No, I advised him to get a twin and build all his time as ME with others paying for it in ME ratings and time building blocks. That will get him in the door at a 121 carrier.

 

[ChitDisturber]

No, I advised him to get a twin and build all his time as ME with others paying for it in ME ratings and time building blocks. That will get him in the door at a 121 carrier.

Who does that???


Sounds like a bad idea to me, for so many reasons.

I've seen some folks get shot down for jobs because all their hours were flying their own planes around their home drome for $100 burgers, there is something to be said for working the industry at a entry level, not just buying all your hours and trying to go from zero to hero.


So the OP can go your route OOOORRRR, he can just get his CPL (250hrs), sell the plane, get a first flying job (like everyone else), then second flying job and work his way onwards and upwards through the industry and to his ATP.



For what it's worth, 250 hrs is 250hrs.

Having a a chunk of that 250 built in a complex plane aint going to help you as much as having more money in the bank account.

How about getting a deal on a C150 for 15k or so and shotgunning hours with a buddy to cover some of the expenses, take the money you saved by buying a cheaper plane and save that money for AVGAS, maintenance, CFIs, extra ratings, DPE fees, etc.

It's also much easier to buy and flip something like a $15k C150 vs a complex plane, its easier to maintain, hangar, and easier on the fuel burn, remember the hours in a C150 count as total time just the same as hours in a PA24 or PA28R

 

[Henning]

Anybody reasonably smart does (which disqualifies most people looking for an airline job). I'm not talking $100 hamburger runs, I'm talking operating as an MEI. Most time building blocks are sold flying cross country. The more multi time you have, the higher your application is in the stack.

BTW, how do you reconcile,

I've seen some folks get shot down for jobs because all their hours were flying their own planes around their home drome for $100 burgers, there is something to be said for working the industry at a entry level, not just buying all your hours and trying to go from zero to hero.

With this:

How about getting a deal on a C150 for 15k or so and shotgunning hours with a buddy to cover some of the expenses, take the money you saved by buying a cheaper plane and save that money for AVGAS, maintenance, CFIs, extra ratings, DPE fees, etc.