Commercial single-engine add on syllabus

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Z06_Mir

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Anyone have a good one that they use? Not that it matters, but this particular student is in our 172M.

Or if no one has a syllabus, any tips for teaching this one? I've had commercial students, just no one adding single engine to a multi engine.


Edit: Just saw this is another thread.. but I'm assuming he doesn't have to get a plastic student certificate, correct? I can just do the solo endorsement when he's ready for it right?
 
Z06_Mir said:
Anyone have a good one that they use? Not that it matters, but this particular student is in our 172M.

Or if no one has a syllabus, any tips for teaching this one? I've had commercial students, just no one adding single engine to a multi engine.
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Just take the multi syllabus and rip it in half? Doesn't that make is a single syllabus? :D
 
No student cert needed, he already has a pilot cert.

Just go run through the maneuvers and the takeoff and landing series, you aren't really teaching him much, he's already seen all this, done all this, he just has to demo it in a different (SEL) plane, you aren't as much acting as a CFI as you are just a maneuver spec monitor.

I'd say get him solo so he can practice without paying for a seat warmer, do the min training in prep for a check ride and that's that, you shouldn't even need much of a plan really, just blow through the maneuvers, make sure he knows the basic systems, once he's to spec, 8710, done.
 
James331 said:
No student cert needed, he already has a pilot cert.

Just go run through the maneuvers and the takeoff and landing series, you aren't really teaching him much, he's already seen all this, done all this, he just has to demo it in a different (SEL) plane, you aren't as much acting as a CFI as you are just a maneuver spec monitor.

I'd say get him solo so he can practice without paying for a seat warmer, do the min training in prep for a check ride and that's that, you shouldn't even need much of a plan really, just blow through the maneuvers, make sure he knows the basic systems, once he's to spec, 8710, done.
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I would like a little more guidance because he is a few years out of currency and hasn't really flown much in terms of smaller GA. He has a few thousand hours but in transport category military aircraft the military version of an LJ35.
 
I hear ya, seems like his issue, if he had one, might be FARs, not airplane stuff, but shy of him busting airspace, a cloud, or something that wouldn't come up as he's already a CPL

When I did my CPL single engine land add on in the champ (first got my CPL in a seaplane), as I recall all the ground was just systems specific, no commercial questions as I already held a CPL, so it was a given I should hold CPL level knowledge. Take off, steep turns, slow flight to stalls, simulated engine out, short field back home, done.

I'd still say, quiz him on the systems, get him used to how she handles, he'll knock any rust off while doing that, then run through the maneuvers, done, should be a 2 day event.

I'm all for having a syllabus, but this is kinda having a syllabus for the sake of having a syllabus.

This seems more like a BFR type event.

Frankly with his level of experience, I'd almost just email him the POH, ACS/PTS, solo him and tell him to report back when he's ready for the 8710.
 
§61.63 Additional aircraft ratings (other than for ratings at the airline transport pilot certification level).

(c) Additional aircraft class rating. A person who applies for an additional class rating on a pilot certificate:

(1) Must have a logbook or training record endorsement from an authorized instructor attesting that the person was found competent in the appropriate aeronautical knowledge areas and proficient in the appropriate areas of operation.

(2) Must pass the practical test.

(3) Need not meet the specified training time requirements prescribed by this part that apply to the pilot certificate for the aircraft class rating sought; unless, the person only holds a lighter-than-air category rating with a balloon class rating and is seeking an airship class rating, then that person must receive the specified training time requirements and possess the appropriate aeronautical experience.

find the appropriate tasks in the PTS for added class, train to proficiency and test.
 
James331 said:
I hear ya, seems like his issue, if he had one, might be FARs, not airplane stuff, but shy of him busting airspace, a cloud, or something that wouldn't come up as he's already a CPL

When I did my CPL single engine land add on in the champ (first got my CPL in a seaplane), as I recall all the ground was just systems specific, no commercial questions as I already held a CPL, so it was a given I should hold CPL level knowledge. Take off, steep turns, slow flight to stalls, simulated engine out, short field back home, done.

I'd still say, quiz him on the systems, get him used to how she handles, he'll knock any rust off while doing that, then run through the maneuvers, done, should be a 2 day event.

I'm all for having a syllabus, but this is kinda having a syllabus for the sake of having a syllabus.

This seems more like a BFR type event.

Frankly with his level of experience, I'd almost just email him the POH, ACS/PTS, solo him and tell him to report back when he's ready for the 8710.
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He wants the syllabus more than I do. I just want some guidance because it's not something I've done before. His big deal once completing his single add on is to join CAP and fly missions. If that gives you an idea of his personality.
 
Z06_Mir said:
He wants the syllabus more than I do. I just want some guidance because it's not something I've done before. His big deal once completing his single add on is to join CAP and fly missions. If that gives you an idea of his personality.
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Oh boy
 
You could use a normal single-engine commercial syllabus, consult the additional task rating table in the PTS, and delete any lessons or elements from the syllabus that are not required.
 
Z06_Mir said:
He wants the syllabus more than I do. I just want some guidance because it's not something I've done before. His big deal once completing his single add on is to join CAP and fly missions. If that gives you an idea of his personality.
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He does realize that he doesn't need a commercial for that, right? ;-)
 
denverpilot said:
He does realize that he doesn't need a commercial for that, right? ;-)
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Sounds to me like he doesn't have any single-engine privileges, and needs to add SOMETHING. Going for a commercial add-on would make the most sense if he's commercial or ATP multi.
 
denverpilot said:
He does realize that he doesn't need a commercial for that, right? ;-)
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You do for some missions, particular if not Federally funded. For instance, we haul CalOES SAR dogs around on occasion, and that requires commercial privileges due to hauling the "cargo."

The part he seems to be missing is that he's got several steps to go through before an MP qualification.
 
MAKG1 said:
You do for some missions, particular if not Federally funded. For instance, we haul CalOES SAR dogs around on occasion, and that requires commercial privileges due to hauling the "cargo."

The part he seems to be missing is that he's got several steps to go through before an MP qualification.
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Yeah pretty rare. He doesn't need it for having cadets barf on him. LOL.
 
denverpilot said:
Yeah pretty rare. He doesn't need it for having cadets barf on him. LOL.
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Or for searching for missing aircraft or taking pictures of the latest wildfire or flood.

I haven't yet had a cadet turn green, let alone puke. The worst I got was a landing in Oakland while a back seat cadet had his legs firmly crossed. Never saw someone high-tail it into an FBO quite so fast....

The OES missions aren't that rare. The teacher orientation rides also require a commercial certificate, and that one is national. See CAPR 60-1 3-7.d.6.
 
MAKG1 said:
Or for searching for missing aircraft or taking pictures of the latest wildfire or flood.

I haven't yet had a cadet turn green, let alone puke. The worst I got was a landing in Oakland while a back seat cadet had his legs firmly crossed. Never saw someone high-tail it into an FBO quite so fast....

The OES missions aren't that rare. The teacher orientation rides also require a commercial certificate, and that one is national. See CAPR 60-1 3-7.d.6.
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Yup. I knew some did. Not much of a concern these days since I let the membership lapse and can't make it to meetings or anything.

Guess my point is that Zoom there has a ways to go before he's doing anything in the left seat anyway. If he has nothing at all single-engine, I guess I see why he'd do a commercial add-on, but it has little to do with him becoming an MP.

Most of the senior squadrons I've ever been around are going to expect some sort of help with squadron duties too, besides just playing a MP on TV.
 
denverpilot said:
He does realize that he doesn't need a commercial for that, right? ;-)
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If he already holds a multi-engine rating on his commercial pilot certificate, it makes no sense to train him for single-engine private. The commercial PTS table will indicate what tasks he needs to do; a syllabus can be built around that.

If he's never flown a light single, and it's been years since he's flown anything, it will likely take a little more than "just a BFR type event", contrary to James331. Good luck.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Sounds to me like he doesn't have any single-engine privileges, and needs to add SOMETHING. Going for a commercial add-on would make the most sense if he's commercial or ATP multi.
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Yeah it wouldn't make any sense for him to go private pilot single. I don't know if his intentions are to go for his CFI or not, but I don't get that vibe.

Brad Z said:
If he's never flown a light single, and it's been years since he's flown anything, it will likely take a little more than "just a BFR type event", contrary to James331. Good luck.
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He's flown a single a couple times and some lighter twins, but nothing in the last several years. It is a challenge of a different kind. He isn't scary, but he isn't proficient either. He's a nice guy, but I don't want to be friends with him outside of the cockpit.

And unrelated.......
Pro tip: Leave your kneeboard off unless you're doing XC work. It's not needed.
 
Did he do primary PPL training in a multi?
 
Just give him a checkride based on the PTS. Have him practice anything that needs work until you can sign him off for the real thing.
 
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