Commercial PTS question

FredFenster

FredFenster

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
429
Location
Manitowoc, WI
Display Name
Display name:
Greg L
On the commercial test practical exam, most (all?) of the maneuvers have a degree of bank listed in the PTS. Can you use an day VFR only aircraft without an attitude indicator on the test? Would a tablet/handheld GPS with attitude be an acceptable substitute? Or is it find another plane with the equipment needed for the test?
 
61.45
(b) Required equipment (other than controls). (1) Except as provided in paragraph (b)(2) of this section, an aircraft used for a practical test must have—
(i) The equipment for each area of operation required for the practical test;

You'd have to ask the DPE if they agree that your substitute is okay, but I doubt it.

I'd love to see what the limitation would be if it fell to this...

(2) An applicant for a certificate or rating may use an aircraft with operating characteristics that preclude the applicant from performing all of the tasks required for the practical test. However, the applicant's certificate or rating, as appropriate, will be issued with an appropriate limitation.
 
Just to point out, a complex aircraft is required for the commercial checkride. I would wager most complex aircraft will have a functioning AI. On the flip side, all commercial maneuvers are visual maneuvers. IMO you should be able to approximate bank angles pretty close without an AI.
 
FredFenster said:
On the commercial test practical exam, most (all?) of the maneuvers have a degree of bank listed in the PTS. Can you use an day VFR only aircraft without an attitude indicator on the test? Would a tablet/handheld GPS with attitude be an acceptable substitute? Or is it find another plane with the equipment needed for the test?
Click to expand...

I haven't been a DE for a long, long, time...but when I was, my attention was not on micromanaging the bank angle. The DE is not going to pink slip you on the niceties of bank angle. However, you can approximate what you are looking for by referring to the turn instrument and performing a standard rate turn. As noted by others, it is a VFR maneuver.

Bob Gardner
 
As Bob indicated, micromanaging bank angle probably isn't going to be the goal, but if you show opt to do your training/testing without an AI, be confident in your ability to estimate bank angles reasonably accurately...wing struts, framing tubes in the windshield, etc., are good references to begin with.
 
FredFenster said:
Hmm.. Might be best to just ask the opinion of the DPE I'd use the next time I see him.
Click to expand...

What complex airplane were you thinking of? Experimental, or something certified that has a nearly empty panel?

Reason I ask, I know of at least one DPE who always declines flying in Experimentals and another who might but is leery about it. FAA leaves that decision up to the DPE.
 
The commercial checkride can be split up and taken in two airplanes, one complex, one non. I plan on doing so because I can use the non-complex for no cost while I have to pay for the complex. I plan on demonstrating that I can takeoff and land the complex (which should be evident by the fact I have the endorsement) and do everything else in the non complex. The FAA is reconsidering the need to even have a complex airplane for the commercial checkride (it wasn't always a requirement). If you have ten or more hours in a complex and the endorsement, why do need one for the check? I actually find it more difficult to fly the maneuvers in the non-complex. Maybe the FAA should require both a complex and high performance endorsement for commercial applicants but allow anything for the checkride.
 
Witmo said:
The commercial checkride can be split up and taken in two airplanes, one complex, one non. I plan on doing so because I can use the non-complex for no cost while I have to pay for the complex.
Click to expand...

Yup. I know someone who did that. Have to talk to the DPE about those, too. Some will, some won't.
 
I know it can be done that way, but seems like a PITA to have to learn maneuvers in two different aircraft, and have to switch aircraft during the checkride, just to save a few bucks.
 
Witmo said:
The commercial checkride can be split up and taken in two airplanes, one complex, one non. I plan on doing so because I can use the non-complex for no cost while I have to pay for the complex. I plan on demonstrating that I can takeoff and land the complex (which should be evident by the fact I have the endorsement) and do everything else in the non complex. The FAA is reconsidering the need to even have a complex airplane for the commercial checkride (it wasn't always a requirement). If you have ten or more hours in a complex and the endorsement, why do need one for the check? I actually find it more difficult to fly the maneuvers in the non-complex. Maybe the FAA should require both a complex and high performance endorsement for commercial applicants but allow anything for the checkride.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking of doing too, all the maneuvers I can in my airplane and rent a complex for the rest. That would be nice if they'd remove the complex requirement, I've already got that endorsement.
 
A couple of times I trained commercial applicants in one of my Citabrias, and at that time examiners were happy to use the Citabrias for most of the checkride, finishing up with a perfunctory ride in an Arrow or other retractable.

I think the examiners enjoyed the variety. Downside is that the applicant must be prepared to do any of the maneuvers in either of the planes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top