Commercial operation privilege question

[edward lee]

This is the most headache thing to understand what is allowed and what is not allowed but this is what I understand, please correct me if I am wrong.

As commercial pilot to get compensation, almost everything is required to have air operation certification such as 121, 135 and etc.. This is why you get hired to the business with AOC. There are few ways other than getting hired to AOC is that either just providing pilot services to person who owns airplane or fly the jobs under 119.1 (e).

Here are some confusions I have.
1. I understand holding out is for advertising both pilot and airplane services to public so advertising yourself as pilot is not holding out. But what if you are holding out those jobs under 119.1 (e)? Lets say you are CFI with own airplane. Can you advertise to public that you can provide both airplane and CFI services?
2. Under circumstance where customer brought airplane looking for pilot services, can customer bring rented airplane from 3rd party? It could be club airplane or airplane from customer's friend.
3. This is really little extra question that people might be "who care in real world' but just wonder. So, FAA really defines everything as compensation if it benefits you, so if you are flying under part 9, you can't even get anything from the customer. How long does it last? Let's say you took friend for flight and a friend willing to buy lunch for you but that counts as compensation. So you won't be able to get lunch or anything from you?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Big topic. Often discussed. Lots of weeds, but to be simple…

1. Yes. You may “hold out” services as a CFI, ferry pilot, photo platform, etc. you can even send resumes applying for corporate pilot jobs.

2. Yes, but. It is extremely common, for example, for corporate jets to be leased rather than owned. In the FBO or club airplane situation (and others), the “but” is looking at the connection between the lessor and the pilot. Is that FBO or club really renting to the passenger and leaving it to the passenger to select a competent pilot? The concept is yet another technical term - who has “operational control.”

3. It lasts forever. And there's a problem with how you worded that. You are the one referring to the passenger as a “customer.” If you do, why shouldn’t the FAA ?

IMO people worry way too much about it when it comes to taking friends (not “customers”) for rides. If the circumstances are proper, you can share the expenses under 61.113. And even right now when the FAA is cracking down on illegal charter, nobody cares if your friend buys you lunch.

 

[edward lee]

Big topic. Often discussed. Lots of weeds, but to be simple…

1. Yes. You may “hold out” services as a CFI, ferry pilot, photo platform, etc. you can even send resumes applying for corporate pilot jobs.

2. Yes, but. It is extremely common, for example, for corporate jets to be leased rather than owned. In the FBO or club airplane situation (and others), the “but” is looking at the connection between the lessor and the pilot. Is that FBO or club really renting to the passenger and leaving it to the passenger to select a competent pilot? The concept is yet another technical term - who has “operational control.”

3. It lasts forever. And there's a problem with how you worded that. You are the one referring to the passenger as a “customer.” If you do, why shouldn’t the FAA ?

IMO people worry way too much about it when it comes to taking friends (not “customers”) for rides. If the circumstances are proper, you can share the expenses under 61.113. And even right now when the FAA is cracking down on illegal charter, nobody cares if your friend buys you lunch.

Thank you for great answer.

So back question one. I understand 119.1 e jobs are the one you can hold out to public for your service and your airplane. So holding out is advertising public for transportation and obviously advertising pilot service without an airplane cannot make transportation. This means advertisement of pilot service does not consider as holding out?

For question two, you mentioned about operational control. So if customer rents an airplane from club, technically customer doesn't really have operational control as club ultimately has all the right of that airplane?

 

[midlifeflyer]

FAR 1.1.

Operational control, with respect to a flight, means the exercise of authority over initiating, conducting or terminating a flight.​

Easiest way I can explain it without too much oversimplification: When you rent or use a club airplane as a pilot, the club or FBO is turning operational control over to you. You decide where to fly, when to go, etc. you take of responsibility for accidents that harm others and damage to the airplane. It feels a bit vague in the pilot/renter situation because we are also PIC. But when you are a corporate pilot, while you are ultimately responsible as PIC the safety of the flight, the company you fly for has operational control. You fly where they want, on the schedule for their business meeting. They have potential liability if something goes wrong because it’s their airplane. In fact, they have selected you to do the flight.

In the situation where a non-pilot is renting from an FBO, that means all those incidents of operational control, especially choosing the pilot, goes to that non-pilot renter who knows nothing about aviation. Is it possible? Sure. But these types of arrangements, albeit mostly involving cabin class aircraft, have been the main target of FAA illegal charter enforcement. In terms of your FBO or club, do you think the club/FBO is willing to take the risk of non-pilot choices? If they knew the responsibility they are taking on, would most non-pilots even want it?

 

[midlifeflyer]

This means advertisement of pilot service does not consider as holding out?

“Holding out” just means being available to at least some segment of the public. It’s just letting people know. It’s not a dirty word. It’s nothing inherently illegal. It just marks the dividing line between private and public. 119.1 is really just a list of things commercial pilots are allowed to do without an operating certificate. We’re allowed to hold out those services just like a Part 135 charter is allowed to hold out the availability of its services.