Coming off Wellbutrin

H

HopefulPilot

Guest
Hi folks -

I'm in my late 30s and in the early stages of pursuing a PPL. I'm about halfway through ground school (doing really well!) and I've had three lessons so far (also doing great thus far!). My instructor told me to get my medical ASAP.

Problem is, I've been on Wellbutrin for about the last two years. About two years ago I went through a divorce, and I had some trouble with sleeping, keeping an appetite, just having a general low-energy state. I went to therapy for about a year and a half and worked through a lot. My primary care doc gave me a low dose (150) of Wellbutrin to help. He knew I was in therapy, and my therapist knew I was getting Wellbutrin from my primary care doc, and they were both happy with how I was doing. To clarify, just in case this needs to be said, I never had any feelings or thoughts about self-harm, violence, or anything even remotely like that.

I'm still doing counseling, but at this point I'm only going about once a month just to kind of check in. Things are going well for me. I had an annual checkup with my primary care doc last week, and he brought up the Wellbutrin, and asked if I'd like to try to start weaning off of it, and of course I said yes. So for the next two weeks I'll be taking a lower dose and then I'll check in with him. During this time I'm also increasing my therapy sessions just to check in more often with the therapist as a precaution since I'm coming off the Wellbutrin. The therapist thinks it's a good idea, and the primary care doctor is glad that I'm checking in with my therapist during the transition. My doc thinks I should be able to come off Wellbutrin completely within a month, if not sooner, as long as I don't have any issues.

I asked my doctor if I was diagnosed with depression, and he didn't give me a very clear answer. He said that everyone in their life at some point gets depressed. He went on to say that some people just have a kind of situational-depression during a really hard time in their life or following some kind of trauma, but other people have chronic depression that is persistent all the time, regardless of how well things seem to be going in their lives. He said sometimes medication can help with both types of depression, just like it helped me through my rough patch.

My questions-

  1. The medexpress form asks if you've ever been diagnosed with, had, or presently have -- depression. Have I had depression? Sure, most people have been depressed at one point or another in their lives. Surely they don't expect you to answer "yes" just because you had a bad month ten years ago when your girlfriend dumped you and you lost your job and had trouble sleeping and eating for a while... so what actually constitutes "depression" as the FAA intends?
  2. What happens in the background during this process? -- Meaning, does the medical examiner contact my primary care doctor to request a copy of my file? Does the medical examiner contact my pharmacy to pull a list of all meds that have been prescribed by me? Does the FAA do either of these things either initially for the application, or at any point in time as an audit?
  3. CAN either the medical examiner OR the FAA contact my doctor or pharmacy or therapist to get any kind of medical information about me? Do I have to sign some kind of waiver as part of getting the 3rd class medical that says that I give permission to the FAA and/or medical examiner to have access to my medical records?
  4. Since I'm progressing along with my ground school and lessons (about 1.5 hours of flight time per week) -- should I temporarily stop the lessons until I figure out what the process is going to be for the medical given my history? I've read stories on here that it can take people YEARS in some cases for stupid minor issues like mine. There's no point in me trying to build my skills as a pilot if I'm going to have to take a break for a couple of years.
  5. Honestly, what's the worst that could happen if I lie on the medical about never having had depression, AND --
  6. What is the most likely thing to happen if I lie on the medical about never having had depression (assuming I come off the Wellbutrin without any issues, and continue to see my therapist periodically and never have issues with depression again)?

Thank you in advance for any advice.
 
Hi folks -

I'm in my late 30s and in the early stages of pursuing a PPL. I'm about halfway through ground school (doing really well!) and I've had three lessons so far (also doing great thus far!). My instructor told me to get my medical ASAP.

Problem is, I've been on Wellbutrin for about the last two years. About two years ago I went through a divorce, and I had some trouble with sleeping, keeping an appetite, just having a general low-energy state. I went to therapy for about a year and a half and worked through a lot. My primary care doc gave me a low dose (150) of Wellbutrin to help. He knew I was in therapy, and my therapist knew I was getting Wellbutrin from my primary care doc, and they were both happy with how I was doing. To clarify, just in case this needs to be said, I never had any feelings or thoughts about self-harm, violence, or anything even remotely like that.

I'm still doing counseling, but at this point I'm only going about once a month just to kind of check in. Things are going well for me. I had an annual checkup with my primary care doc last week, and he brought up the Wellbutrin, and asked if I'd like to try to start weaning off of it, and of course I said yes. So for the next two weeks I'll be taking a lower dose and then I'll check in with him. During this time I'm also increasing my therapy sessions just to check in more often with the therapist as a precaution since I'm coming off the Wellbutrin. The therapist thinks it's a good idea, and the primary care doctor is glad that I'm checking in with my therapist during the transition. My doc thinks I should be able to come off Wellbutrin completely within a month, if not sooner, as long as I don't have any issues.

I asked my doctor if I was diagnosed with depression, and he didn't give me a very clear answer. He said that everyone in their life at some point gets depressed. He went on to say that some people just have a kind of situational-depression during a really hard time in their life or following some kind of trauma, but other people have chronic depression that is persistent all the time, regardless of how well things seem to be going in their lives. He said sometimes medication can help with both types of depression, just like it helped me through my rough patch.

My questions-

  1. The medexpress form asks if you've ever been diagnosed with, had, or presently have -- depression. Have I had depression? Sure, most people have been depressed at one point or another in their lives. Surely they don't expect you to answer "yes" just because you had a bad month ten years ago when your girlfriend dumped you and you lost your job and had trouble sleeping and eating for a while... so what actually constitutes "depression" as the FAA intends?
  2. What happens in the background during this process? -- Meaning, does the medical examiner contact my primary care doctor to request a copy of my file? Does the medical examiner contact my pharmacy to pull a list of all meds that have been prescribed by me? Does the FAA do either of these things either initially for the application, or at any point in time as an audit?
  3. CAN either the medical examiner OR the FAA contact my doctor or pharmacy or therapist to get any kind of medical information about me? Do I have to sign some kind of waiver as part of getting the 3rd class medical that says that I give permission to the FAA and/or medical examiner to have access to my medical records?
  4. Since I'm progressing along with my ground school and lessons (about 1.5 hours of flight time per week) -- should I temporarily stop the lessons until I figure out what the process is going to be for the medical given my history? I've read stories on here that it can take people YEARS in some cases for stupid minor issues like mine. There's no point in me trying to build my skills as a pilot if I'm going to have to take a break for a couple of years.
  5. Honestly, what's the worst that could happen if I lie on the medical about never having had depression, AND --
  6. What is the most likely thing to happen if I lie on the medical about never having had depression (assuming I come off the Wellbutrin without any issues, and continue to see my therapist periodically and never have issues with depression again)?

Thank you in advance for any advice.
I'd suggest going back and editing your question to delete questions #5 and #6 if you expect to get real assistance here from people who can help you.
 
If you are honest on medexpress the faa is going to put you thru absolute hell and you will not be guaranteed a medical even after spending more than $5k.
If you are trying to just fly for fun you should go the sport pilot route which requires no medical.
 
I'd suggest going back and editing your question to delete questions #5 and #6 if you expect to get real assistance here from people who can help you.
Because not talking about it makes it easier to make the right decision?
 
Because not talking about it makes it easier to make the right decision?
Because I, and many others here, aren't going to take seriously someone who is asking if they should make false statements on a federal form. But to answer the OPs question, they should probably ask Martha Stewart or Rod Blagojevich what can happen if you knowingly lie to the federal government. Loosing your pilot certificate could actually be the least of your worries.
 
I will probably regret posting this, but as an almost 60-year-old Earth denizen, I am always surprised at the amount of medication people are willing to take in order to avoid feelings that are appropriate for certain life circumstances, and even more suprised/disgusted by the professionals willing to prescribe them. Divorce is awful... loss of a loved one is awful... loss of a lifelong dream job is awful... it's OK for it to feel awful. Pharmaceuticals should be the last place to seek solace. If nothing else is working and self-harm or harming others is remotely possible, then yes, of course, explore all available options. This is NOT meant as an indictment to the OP, but rather to his health professionals.
 
I thought the experts said in my similar thread that a one time bout of depression doesn’t make you ineligible. This guy can’t get a certificate even though it was a one time deal? That just doesn’t seem right.
 
I will probably regret posting this, but as an almost 60-year-old Earth denizen, I am always surprised at the amount of medication people are willing to take in order to avoid feelings that are appropriate for certain life circumstances, and even more suprised/disgusted by the professionals willing to prescribe them. Divorce is awful... loss of a loved one is awful... loss of a lifelong dream job is awful... it's OK for it to feel awful. Pharmaceuticals should be the last place to seek solace. If nothing else is working and self-harm or harming others is remotely possible, then yes, of course, explore all available options. This is NOT meant as an indictment to the OP, but rather to his health professionals.

Perhaps 200mg of Hopeugrin(tm) daily will change your point of view?
 
Because I, and many others here, aren't going to take seriously someone who is asking if they should make false statements on a federal form. But to answer the OPs question, they should probably ask Martha Stewart or Rod Blagojevich what can happen if you knowingly lie to the federal government. Loosing your pilot certificate could actually be the least of your worries.
THIS
...which is partially why I haven't answered here....I have a hard time, tolerating liars. I can't get good outcomes when one is willing to do that.
 
You could get a presidential pardon (like Blago) but it won't get you a medical :)
 
Let me use an analogy to explain my reasons for disagreeing with the opinion that "if you're willing to lie, you're not worthy to talk to at all about the subject".

If you forgot about the context here and asked a sample of random people "Would you be willing to commit a lie of omission to save $30,000 and skip 2 years of red tape, and perhaps do all of that and still not get what you want?" I'd wager you'd get a VERY large number of Yes votes.

Now, explain the context of WHY providing truthful information is important and the consequences of lying in the scenario, and I'd wager you'd see that percentage become much closer to 0.

Simply ignoring people you think might lie is not going to get more people to tell the truth. In fact, it's going to do the opposite. Pretending like lying is not an option is being dishonest itself. It really is an option and it's a bad one. But pretending like it's not an option doesn't help people see that it's a bad one.

I am prepared for the beating I'm about to receive, have at it.
 
  1. Honestly, what's the worst that could happen if I lie on the medical about never having had depression, AND --
5 years in a federal correctional institution. That would be 'the worst'. More likely is a much shorter time or probation.
 
I will probably regret posting this, but as an almost 60-year-old Earth denizen, I am always surprised at the amount of medication people are willing to take in order to avoid feelings that are appropriate for certain life circumstances, and even more suprised/disgusted by the professionals willing to prescribe them. Divorce is awful... loss of a loved one is awful... loss of a lifelong dream job is awful... it's OK for it to feel awful. Pharmaceuticals should be the last place to seek solace. If nothing else is working and self-harm or harming others is remotely possible, then yes, of course, explore all available options. This is NOT meant as an indictment to the OP, but rather to his health professionals.
I miss the days when people were admired for quietly dealing with life’s downside. At my annual physical they have stopped asking me about my emotional state as have told them it is none of their concern.
This current namby pamby, take a pill for every sad moment attitude is the same one that that gives us therapy peacocks. If one is that emotionally fragile, flying is not for you.

I miss John Wayne
 
The saddest thing about all this is the happy pills have an effective rate on par with placebos. Happy pills work, they cure depression. The OP wasn't depressed, he was unhappy. Depressed people are made depressed by brain chemistry, they're depressed. Non depressed are made unhappy by life events, and this isn't curable by happy pills. It really isn't curable by anything except perhaps a dog or fifth of very fine alcohol. But MDs prescribe happy pills to unhappy people anyway. To the OP, sport pilot or gliders. The FAA will send you through lots of expensive nonsense that probably won't work in the end.

Don't lie on federal forms. Calling that a bad idea is an insult to bad ideas. That's like a fragment of the primordial Big Bang of bad ideas. It's a quazar level bad idea.
 
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Welcome OP. You may notice some pilots are a bit judgmental and jump to conclusions. Dont mind them, they mean well.


There may be a way for you to a medical.

Here is the site written in buerocrat:
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...process/exam_tech/item47/amd/antidepressants/

One of the people who badgered the FAA into even considering ANY pilots with a depression diagnosis for certification has already chimed in on this thread. If you get off the 'is it ok if I lie?' track, he may be willing to point you in the right direction. The drug you are on is not on the approved list, I don't know whether that's a 'never ever' or whether you may be able to get certified without the SSRI or on a different one.
 
Welcome OP. You may notice some pilots are a bit judgmental and jump to conclusions. Dont mind them, they mean well.


There may be a way for you to a medical.

Here is the site written in buerocrat:
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...process/exam_tech/item47/amd/antidepressants/

One of the people who badgered the FAA into even considering ANY pilots with a depression diagnosis for certification has already chimed in on this thread. If you get off the 'is it ok if I lie?' track, he may be willing to point you in the right direction. The drug you are on is not on the approved list, I don't know whether that's a 'never ever' or whether you may be able to get certified without the SSRI or on a different one.

Why is it not as straightforward as the linked article suggests? I’m asking somewhat rhetorically, it is the federal government after all. But the “off 60 days with favorable report by treating physician” makes so much sense. This is the article that got me excited and made me think I had a chance. But apparently it’s far from the complete story.
 
Why is it not as straightforward as the linked article suggests? I’m asking somewhat rhetorically, it is the federal government after all. But the “off 60 days with favorable report by treating physician” makes so much sense. This is the article that got me excited and made me think I had a chance. But apparently it’s far from the complete story.

I have only been involved with this once. While I am not an AME, a fellow pilot asked me for help to navigate this issue. I contacted doc Bruce and he told me what the the airman had to do and the phrases his treating doc had to use in the letter. The airman did those things, got his app resubmitted to the FAA and was approved.
 
I have only been involved with this once. While I am not an AME, a fellow pilot asked me for help to navigate this issue. I contacted doc Bruce and he told me what the the airman had to do and the phrases his treating doc had to use in the letter. The airman did those things, got his app resubmitted to the FAA and was approved.

I get it. But I’ve been told by him that I have no chance and just don’t get why I can’t do the pathway you linked. Maybe I need to just quit lingering here so I’ll quit crying about it and move on with my life!
 
I get it. But I’ve been told by him that I have no chance and just don’t get why I can’t do the pathway you linked. Maybe I need to just quit lingering here so I’ll quit crying about it and move on with my life!

I don't know. I suggest you let a few weeks pass, contact one of the two AMEs mentioned above and ask them. I also suggest that you completely eliminate the option of 'lying on the form' and be completely forthright with either of them. If there is a way for you to get certified either on a different ssri or none at all, they can tell you how to get there.
 
I don't know. I suggest you let a few weeks pass, contact one of the two AMEs mentioned above and ask them. I also suggest that you completely eliminate the option of 'lying on the form' and be completely forthright with either of them. If there is a way for you to get certified either on a different ssri or none at all, they can tell you how to get there.
He’s not the one who said he was going to lie. That was the op.
 
Let me use an analogy to explain my reasons for disagreeing with the opinion that "if you're willing to lie, you're not worthy to talk to at all about the subject".

If you forgot about the context here and asked a sample of random people "Would you be willing to commit a lie of omission to save $30,000 and skip 2 years of red tape, and perhaps do all of that and still not get what you want?" I'd wager you'd get a VERY large number of Yes votes.

Now, explain the context of WHY providing truthful information is important and the consequences of lying in the scenario, and I'd wager you'd see that percentage become much closer to 0.

Simply ignoring people you think might lie is not going to get more people to tell the truth. In fact, it's going to do the opposite. Pretending like lying is not an option is being dishonest itself. It really is an option and it's a bad one. But pretending like it's not an option doesn't help people see that it's a bad one.

I am prepared for the beating I'm about to receive, have at it.
I get it. But I’ve been told by him that I have no chance and just don’t get why I can’t do the pathway you linked. Maybe I need to just quit lingering here so I’ll quit crying about it and move on with my life!
Did you follow my advice that I posted on your thread?
 
Did you follow my advice that I posted on your thread?

I did, actually. I meant to post about it but forgot. I had a great experience with my RFS office. They answered right away and the lady was very knowledgeable and helpful. She thinks I have a decent shot with a good bit of work, of course. But she wasn’t sure so I’m researching LSA opportunities to see whether or not I’m willing to risk losing that option. Thanks again for the advice man, very much appreciated.
 
I did, actually. I meant to post about it but forgot. I had a great experience with my RFS office. They answered right away and the lady was very knowledgeable and helpful. She thinks I have a decent shot with a good bit of work, of course. But she wasn’t sure so I’m researching LSA opportunities to see whether or not I’m willing to risk losing that option. Thanks again for the advice man, very much appreciated.

Cool. Sometimes the RFS office is an underutilized resource for pilots.
 
I miss the days when people were admired for quietly dealing with life’s downside. At my annual physical they have stopped asking me about my emotional state as have told them it is none of their concern.
This current namby pamby, take a pill for every sad moment attitude is the same one that that gives us therapy peacocks. If one is that emotionally fragile, flying is not for you.

I miss John Wayne

This kind of dangerous attitude is partly why I silently dealt with OCD for almost twenty years before getting help. Help that allowed me to get my medical renewed and get back to flying.
 
The saddest thing about all this is the happy pills have an effective rate on par with placebos. Happy pills work, they cure depression. The OP wasn't depressed, he was unhappy. Depressed people are made depressed by brain chemistry, they're depressed. Non depressed are made unhappy by life events, and this isn't curable by happy pills. It really isn't curable by anything except perhaps a dog or fifth of very fine alcohol. But MDs prescribe happy pills to unhappy people anyway. To the OP, sport pilot or gliders. The FAA will send you through lots of expensive nonsense that probably won't work in the end.

Don't lie on federal forms. Calling that a bad idea is an insult to bad ideas. That's like a fragment of the primordial Big Bang of bad ideas. It's a quazar level bad idea.

Not just happy pills, the over-prescribing of antibiotics because Mom and Dad want something for little Johnny is also rampant.
 
This kind of dangerous attitude is partly why I silently dealt with OCD for almost twenty years before getting help. Help that allowed me to get my medical renewed and get back to flying.
‘Dangerous’?
We obviously have a different perspective. While I think that there are people with serious mental health issues that need real help, I think too many ‘adults’ need their hand held to deal with the normal rigors of life. Just as many feel that they need a pill for every little thing.
Not saying this applies to you.
 
I miss the days when people were admired for quietly dealing with life’s downside. At my annual physical they have stopped asking me about my emotional state as have told them it is none of their concern.
This current namby pamby, take a pill for every sad moment attitude is the same one that that gives us therapy peacocks. If one is that emotionally fragile, flying is not for you.

I miss John Wayne

This kind of dangerous attitude is partly why I silently dealt with OCD for almost twenty years before getting help. Help that allowed me to get my medical renewed and get back to flying.

‘Dangerous’?
We obviously have a different perspective. While I think that there are people with serious mental health issues that need real help, I think too many ‘adults’ need their hand held to deal with the normal rigors of life. Just as many feel that they need a pill for every little thing.
Not saying this applies to you.

I didn't "like" the first of the three posts I quoted above because it was stated a bit more strongly than I personally would have and I feared that it might be misconstrued. I feared correctly, but I do agree with the first statement, and @Morgan3820 's subsequent clarification....ummmmm...well...clarifies the statement well. The level for "I can't cope...there's too much stress on my plate and I need professional help and pharmaceutical supplementation" has fallen a great deal in my lifetime. Reducing the stigma of mental disease and making help available for those who need it is admirable and necessary. Assuming that we should not feel poorly, sad, or awful when confronted with poor, sad, or awful circumstances, however,is just as damaging and dangerous as ignoring true mental and emotional disconnects. Life is.joyous...and life is incredibly sad and challenging at times. Without those times,the joys would not be felt as deeply. Compress the dynamic range of music and you've taken the life out of it. Compress life with chemicals unless absolutely necessary,and you've taken the life out of life. What's left then, other than chemical dependency?

Yeah..simplistic and overly generalized, I know. I have NOTHING against medication when needed,and have great respect for those in the medical profession...they've literally saved my life on more than one occasion. I do miss the days when people weren't bombarded with the idea that there's something wrong with them if they aren't happy all the time.
 
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I didn't "like" the first of the three posts I quoted above because it was stated a bit more strongly than I personally would have and I feared that it might be misconstrued. I feared correctly, but I do agree with the first statement, and @Morgan3820 's subsequent clarification....ummmmm...well...clarifies the statement well. The level for "I can't cope...there's too much stress on my plate and I need professional help and pharmaceutical supplementation" has fallen a great deal in my lifetime. Reducing the stigma of mental disease and making help available for those who need it is admirable and necessary. Assuming that we should not feel poorly, sad, or awful when confronted with poor, sad, or awful circumstances, however,is just as damaging and dangerous as ignoring true mental and emotional disconnects. Life is.joyous...and life is incredibly sad and challenging at times. Without those times,the joys would not be felt as deeply. Compress the dynamic range of music and you've taken the life out of it. Compress life with chemicals unless absolutely necessary,and you've taken the life out of life. What's left then, other than chemical dependency?

Yeah..simplistic and overly generalized, I know. I have NOTHING against medication when needed,and have great respect for those in the medical profession...they've literally saved my life on more than one occasion. I do miss the days when people weren't bombarded with the idea that there's something wrong with then if they aren't happy all the time.
Tact has never been my strong suit, except with those that warrant it, i.e. young children, grandmothers etc.
 
Tact has never been my strong suit, except with those that warrant it, i.e. young children, grandmothers etc.
Mine either, for about the first 55 years of my life. I'm trying to do a bit better this decade...;)
 
I get it. But I’ve been told by him that I have no chance and just don’t get why I can’t do the pathway you linked. Maybe I need to just quit lingering here so I’ll quit crying about it and move on with my life!
As a physician, have you ever met a doctor who had all the answers?
 
I didn't "like" the first of the three posts I quoted above because it was stated a bit more strongly than I personally would have and I feared that it might be misconstrued. I feared correctly, but I do agree with the first statement, and @Morgan3820 's subsequent clarification....ummmmm...well...clarifies the statement well. The level for "I can't cope...there's too much stress on my plate and I need professional help and pharmaceutical supplementation" has fallen a great deal in my lifetime. Reducing the stigma of mental disease and making help available for those who need it is admirable and necessary. Assuming that we should not feel poorly, sad, or awful when confronted with poor, sad, or awful circumstances, however,is just as damaging and dangerous as ignoring true mental and emotional disconnects. Life is.joyous...and life is incredibly sad and challenging at times. Without those times,the joys would not be felt as deeply. Compress the dynamic range of music and you've taken the life out of it. Compress life with chemicals unless absolutely necessary,and you've taken the life out of life. What's left then, other than chemical dependency?

Yeah..simplistic and overly generalized, I know. I have NOTHING against medication when needed,and have great respect for those in the medical profession...they've literally saved my life on more than one occasion. I do miss the days when people weren't bombarded with the idea that there's something wrong with them if they aren't happy all the time.

Well, I liked it. I also liked your post and I liked the next Morgan post and I liked your next post. I am just really liking life today it seems. Actually, I like these posts because I am willing to agree that there is a lot that can be taken from the thoughts contained, even though they can't be completely 100 percent politically correct. Often times not being completely politically correct in itself is what makes a statement itself appealing.

By the way, if I could have "liked" the post I just quoted by MuseChaser twice, I would have done that as well!
 
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