Colorblind & 3rd class medical

cocolos

Pre-takeoff checklist
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cocolos
I believe I am partially red-green colorblind. I've done a couple of online test that have more or less confirmed it. I was curious, should I schedule my 3rd class medical exam or try and see an optometrist and see if I can do one of the alternative color vision exams?
 
Do the light gun SODA and be done with it. Dr Bruce will likely be by to give you the prep work, but if you know you have an issue, just do the SODA otherwise this will be a PITA forever. With the SODA it's done forever.
 
What does the SODA require? Just being able to see the color of lights of the tower?
 
What does the SODA require? Just being able to see the color of lights of the tower?

:D:D:D Yep;) Do it once and forever. I should have done it long ago, but the AME I've been using sent me to the eye doc across the street for a bunch of tests, all of which I passed, so Doc now no longer questions my color vision on that report. If I have to switch AMEs again and they don't want to pass me, I will finally do the SODA.
 
Rather than get the FAA involved from the git-go by asking the FSDO for a Special Medical Flight Test to get a SODA (Statement of Demonstrated Ability) (which despite what Henning wrote involves more than tower light gun signals), and maybe having something go wrong and be screwed forever, or even just having the fact that you admit being colorblind on your FAA records, may I suggest a different course? Go to a towered airport with an instructor (preferably one familiar with the colorblindness SMFT procedure), and have the tower flash you some light gun signals. Then sit down with that instructor and a sectional chart and see if you can tell what's what on it. If you can do that all OK, then go ahead and schedule your FAA medical exam with confidence. Even if you bust the color test at the AME's office, you'll know you can then pass the SMFT later on. If you cannot identify everything on that simulated SMFT with your instructor, then before filling out/signing an FAA medical application, contact Bruce Chien to examine your options .
 
There's not a lot more to it than light gun signal - just that and, as you mentioned Ron, identifying a couple of colors on a sectional. At least in my experience, for Third Class. I'm trying to think of colors that might be on a sectional where you wouldn't have other clues anyway, if you are very familiar with the legend and the chart in question...

By the way Henning, not that you said it was, but it's not "done forever" if you wish to move up a medical class, is it? I have zero desire to do anything requiring a Second Class anyway, but my understanding was that there would be additional testing.
 
I was curious, should I schedule my 3rd class medical exam

That's a really bad idea. A grade A, certified, bad idea.

Fail and you are locked out of options such as sport pilot for approximately the rest of your life. Or longer.

If the proposed exemption for 180 hp and under ever happens (don't hold your breath) you would be locked out of that as well.

Never schedule the medical until you are sure you are going to pass.

You could schedule a consultation with an AME to evaluate your situation. But don't touch any FAA paperwork until you are SURE you can pass.

There is no penalty for failing to try. There is a significant penalty for trying and failing.
 
By the way Henning, not that you said it was, but it's not "done forever" if you wish to move up a medical class, is it? I have zero desire to do anything requiring a Second Class anyway, but my understanding was that there would be additional testing.
For second class or higher, yes, there is more to it. You can read all about it in FAA Order 8900.1 -- go to FSIMS and search on Special Medical Flight Test.
 
Should I cancel my appointment with AME then? and see if I can pass it first?
 
Should I cancel my appointment with AME then? and see if I can pass it first?

Either cancel or ask for a consultation to find out if you will pass (a consultation that does not involve any FAA forms.)

Don't be "that" guy.

Don't eff up.
 
On the consultation, a word of caution. You may know its a consultation... The AME might remember it's a consultation... But his staff might not be paying attention and hand you a FFA form to fill out.

DO NOT FILL OUT ANY FAA PAPERWORK. Doing so makes the visit an official examination which is what we are advising you to avoid until you know with 100% certainty you will pass.

At the moment, you're not certain, so don't fall into this trap.
 
I believe I am partially red-green colorblind. I've done a couple of online test that have more or less confirmed it. I was curious, should I schedule my 3rd class medical exam or try and see an optometrist and see if I can do one of the alternative color vision exams?
Cocolos, first pay an AME and don't expect to touch paper during a consultation. Make sure he has a couple of different color dot tests and see how badly or how well you do. Insist on DAYLIGHT, it matters. If he's really an airman advocate, see about him getting you in front of the tower light guns, which is half of the third class waiver exam.

There are all different levels of red-green deuteranopia, from moderatley easy to certify to "OMG I'm not sure you can pass the operational waiver ride".

In fact, I have gotten one guy who is CLEARLY quite colorbind (red gree, severe) but he was able to memorize all the colors of the sectional, the legend, the MALSR (Instrument lighting array), and passed his FIRST CLASS color vision ride. He has, "color perception adequate for the performance of airman duties". He may not see magenta as magenta, or green as green, but he knows enough to be able to identify whatever it is he does see as "green" or "purple".


But the waiver ride is only TWICE in your whole life, so think about that LAST.
 
I'm amazed how well those with lifelong color deficiencies cope. My son-in-law has some terrible time color matching because of his deficiency, but his differentiation with shades is outstanding. Further he's a big help on jigsaw puzzles with very flat color features because his pattern matching abilities are way above average.
 
I'm amazed how well those with lifelong color deficiencies cope.
The ability of the human brain to adapt to vision anomalies is quite astonishing. They did an experiment years ago involving giving people glasses which inverted the image. The first day, they couldn't stand up without falling over. Within a short time, they adapted and were functioning normally. Then they took the glasses away, and the same thing happened -- initial disfunctionality, followed by adaptation. My own optometrist keeps threatening to write a paper on me, because I have an astonishingly large difference in correction between my two eyes (3 vs 9 diopters). She says that by all the books, I should not be able to fuse the images and have functioning depth perception, but I can and do -- probably thanks to 50 years of practice.
 
A few years back I went to have lasik done, after years of glasses, contacts, and then Ortho-k lenses. I wanted lasik because I'd moved away and couldn't find a doc that did Ortho-k, and I didn't want to go back to glasses or contacts.

The doctor that did the lasik explained that he'd do one eye, so it could see far, and leave my other eye so it would see near. I was hesitant, but he said it would work just fine.

Well, after 4 years like this, no, I don't even notice when my brain switches between eyes. The only downside is that there is a range of about 4 inches where neither eye sees clearly (too close for the far one, too far for the near one), so I have to either move closer or farther to read. Not that big a deal, just a minor frustration on occasion. It is amazing how we adapt.
 
The doctor that did the lasik explained that he'd do one eye, so it could see far, and leave my other eye so it would see near.
Interestingly, the FAA permits this one-near/one-far correction with laser eye surgery, but not with "monovision" contact lenses. Why? :dunno: Maybe Bruce knows.
 
Interestingly, the FAA permits this one-near/one-far correction with laser eye surgery, but not with "monovision" contact lenses. Why? :dunno: Maybe Bruce knows.

With the surgery, you're adapting to this whenever your eyes are open. With contact lenses you have them in and out and you don't adapt.
 
With the surgery, you're adapting to this whenever your eyes are open. With contact lenses you have them in and out and you don't adapt.
I've thought that might be the reason, but my vision is very different with glasses versus contacts, and it takes only a minute or two to adapt back and forth, but then again, my optometrist thinks I'm a walking journal article.
 
My visual acuity is very high and I've been 20/15 since high school (41 now), but my eyes focus at very different distances. I use my right eye for close work and my left eye for far, without even thinking about it. I'm right-handed but learned to shoot rifles and shotguns with my left shoulder and left eye because I could track the moving target faster that way and shoot more accurately. I shoot pistols with my right hand though, I guess because it's easier to focus on the sights with my right eye.
 
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Interestingly, the FAA permits this one-near/one-far correction with laser eye surgery, but not with "monovision" contact lenses. Why? :dunno: Maybe Bruce knows.
This is how the 1997(?) crash of the MD 88 at LGA is attributed. An IOE captain, had his contacts in (one for near, one for far) erratically and missed all the depth cues.

So, monovision is prohibited unless burned in, so the brain adjusts. HOWEVER, no opthalmologist in his right mind would do that unless you had worn them for three months as contacts and adjusted. Then there is the mandatory 3 month peirod after for adjustment, so if you have it done you are down for SIX, count'em months.
 

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This is how the 1997(?) crash of the MD 88 at LGA is attributed. An IOE captain, had his contacts in (one for near, one for far) erratically and missed all the depth cues.

So, monovision is prohibited unless burned in, so the brain adjusts. HOWEVER, no opthalmologist in his right mind would do that unless you had worn them for three months as contacts and adjusted. Then there is the mandatory 3 month peirod after for adjustment, so if you have it done you are down for SIX, count'em months.
Really? That wasn't the case with me... (I'm not saying the opthalmologist was in his right mind). I had ortho-K lenses, they made me quit wearing the one in my left eye for a month, wearing a contact in that eye, and continuing with ortho-k in my right. Then they did the procedure, and I stopped wearing both. :/
 
Looks like I coudn't get a consultation and my instructor just advised me to take the regular exam since I have to take it before I solo.
 
Looks like I coudn't get a consultation and my instructor just advised me to take the regular exam since I have to take it before I solo.
Bad advice -- don't take it. Find someone else who knows what s/he's doing to at least give you a pre-screening with a tower light gun and the sectional charts.
 
Looks like I coudn't get a consultation and my instructor just advised me to take the regular exam since I have to take it before I solo.

Agreed it is bad advice.

Who really is in charge here? You or your instructor?

Somewhat if the solo flight is delayed a short bit. Plenty of other dual activities need doing that won't be wasting your time or financial resources.

where in the USA are you? Tell us and perhaps we can provide a the name of an AME who is more about being an airman's advocate than using the FAA exams to fill his time and CV.
 
Agreed it is bad advice.

Who really is in charge here? You or your instructor?

Somewhat if the solo flight is delayed a short bit. Plenty of other dual activities need doing that won't be wasting your time or financial resources.

where in the USA are you? Tell us and perhaps we can provide a the name of an AME who is more about being an airman's advocate than using the FAA exams to fill his time and CV.

I am in Northern California near Sacramento area. I am planning on going down to a tower and doing a light gun test to see how good I can see the colors....soon.
 
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I am in Northern California near Sacramento area. I am planning on going down to a tower and doing a light gun test to see how good I can see the colors....soon.
...hopefully with a CFI who knows the test procedure, and can also test you on reading the sectional chart.
 
Currently I am looking for other AME's to see if I can schedule a consultation with them. I will begin calling tomorrow. Wish me luck!
 
Guys I have this exact issue with the red green color deficiency and could not pass the traditional eye tests. That honestly means nothing because I know I could pass the color light signal test. I went through the same issue as the original poster. Here's all that will happen if you can't pass the color test administered by the FAA doctor- he will send you to your regular eye doctor who then can administer any number of tests that you could pass, different then the traditional FAA test. If you pass any of those tests your good to go. If you can't or they don't have other tests( like what happened to me) you get yor third class issued with a stipulation for no night flying or no flying by light gun signals. That's it, nothing more. If you are going to be a pro pilot this is not the best but you can get it removed with the demonstrated proficiency test.

I've flown for over a year with this on my medical and have been told many times that it is no big deal and many people have it.
 
Look at the secton on Page 2, item F and thereafter.
 

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Look at the secton on Page 2, item F and thereafter.

Exactly what I was told, thanks for clarifying. You will get the 3rd class medical with the stipulation even if you fail the test, it's only if you don't want that stipulation that you have to jump through all those FAA additional tests.
 
I have the night and light gun limitation on my 3rd class medical and it is not a big deal to me.

Back in the day when I was on flight status with the USAF, I always flunked the "book" with numbers and they then handed me a box of yarn with different colored strands in it. I was asked to pick out various colors and did fine so they issued me a medical with no limitations.

Oh for the simpler days.:rolleyes:

Cheers
 
I have the night and light gun limitation on my 3rd class medical and it is not a big deal to me.

Back in the day when I was on flight status with the USAF, I always flunked the "book" with numbers and they then handed me a box of yarn with different colored strands in it. I was asked to pick out various colors and did fine so they issued me a medical with no limitations.

Oh for the simpler days.:rolleyes:

Cheers
You do give away your age.... :)
 
I have the night and light gun limitation on my 3rd class medical and it is not a big deal to me.

Back in the day when I was on flight status with the USAF, I always flunked the "book" with numbers and they then handed me a box of yarn with different colored strands in it. I was asked to pick out various colors and did fine so they issued me a medical with no limitations.

Oh for the simpler days.:rolleyes:

Cheers

I went through a modified version with my AME, he said "Go to Doctor Fieldler across the street, what he says I go with forever". At bthe eye doctors I passed all the tests including the book because the lighting is correct and book new. I did do it for a CG physical the other day on an iPhone which was ok but too small.
 
Anyone familiar with the light gun signal test? How many can you miss? Also when they test you on the sectionals do they just randomly pick things out and ask you for there color?
 
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